Lively v. Baldoni: Who Really Tipped the Scale?

Becca HartwellOkay, so get this. Blake Lively just sat for a deposition and dropped a detail nobody saw coming.

MilesWait, the texts, the ones that basically sank Baldoni?

Becca HartwellThose exact texts. She testified about how she actually got them in the first place.

MilesHold on. I thought her lawyers just found them. Subpoena, discovery, whatever.

Becca HartwellNope. Plot twist. It was a friend.

MilesA friend. Not a paralegal, not a forensic team. A friend handed her the thing that blew this whole case open?

Becca HartwellI know. Star witness, baby. I'm Becca.

MilesAnd I'm Miles, and I'm sitting here going, "Since when does a group chat become evidence in a legal fight nobody's ever put a real dollar figure on?"

Becca HartwellSince this one, apparently.

MilesFederal court doesn't care whose phone it came off of.

Becca HartwellThat's kind of the whole show today. Forget who won, who lost. We're doing the mechanics, how a private friendship turned into the evidentiary backbone of this entire fight, whatever it actually cost anyone to settle.

MilesSo who actually had the power here? The lawyers or the people in her contacts list who never signed a single filing?

Becca HartwellThat's the question, and wait for it. This friend, not some random.

MilesNo way.

Becca HartwellIt's a name the whole internet already knows. So here's the actual name. It's Ashley Avignone. She's Blake's friend. She's tight with Taylor Swift too, and in the deposition, Lively says Avignone is the one who first tipped her off.

MilesTipped her off to what exactly?

Becca HartwellThat a publicist named Stephanie Jones was sitting on messages pulled off Jennifer Abel's phone.

MilesWait, Jennifer Abel, the Baldoni team's own publicist?

Becca HartwellThat's the one. Her phone, her texts.

MilesOh, that's rich.

Becca HartwellAnd according to her July deposition, Jones told People these were the most disturbing messages she'd seen in her whole career.

MilesIn her career. That's a career publicist saying that.

Becca HartwellRight. This isn't some intern flagging a weird email.

MilesSo how does a rival team's publicist end up sitting on the smoking gun?

Becca HartwellWe don't fully know yet, but here's the wrinkle. Jones reportedly tried reaching Blake's own publicist, Leslie Sloane, before any of this ever got subpoenaed.

MilesBefore the subpoena.

Becca HartwellBefore.

MilesSo the evidence almost changed hands through a phone call between two publicists, and nobody's law firm was anywhere near it.

Becca HartwellNobody.

MilesThat's what bugs me. You've got a legal fight big enough to make headlines for months, and the pipeline for the key evidence runs through a friend group chat and two publicists trading calls?

Becca HartwellWhen you put it that way, it sounds like a group project.

MilesI mean, why isn't this going through subpoena first? Why is a friend hearing it before the lawyers do?

Becca HartwellBecause Hollywood doesn't run on subpoenas, Miles. It runs on who picks up the phone.

MilesSure, but that's a strange amount of leverage for two women who aren't attorneys.

Becca HartwellLeslie's a publicist. Stephanie's a publicist, and somehow they're the ones deciding what gets seen.

MilesFor a minute, anyway.

Becca HartwellFor a minute, because that call to Leslie Sloane didn't land clean. She was trying and trying, and it still took a subpoena to actually pull the messages loose.

MilesSo there's a whole scramble behind the scenes before any of this ever reaches a docket.

Becca HartwellA publicist racing against her own instincts, basically. Sit on it or blow it up.

MilesAnd that's before a single lawyer even knows the texts exist.

Becca HartwellWhich is the whole irony. The machinery everyone assumes runs on lawyers actually started with somebody just picking up the phone. Okay, quick recap for anyone who blinked.

MilesWe're not recapping.

Becca HartwellFine, fine, just anchoring it. Jones already had those texts flagged as the worst material she'd ever handled, and she'd gone looking for Sloane before any subpoena existed.

MilesRight. That part's on the record from her deposition testimony.

Becca HartwellSo the question I keep circling back to, how does a publicist's private scramble turn into something a court will actually accept?

MilesThat's the paper trail, and honestly, it's not that different from tracking a car's provenance.

Becca HartwellOkay, an actual car analogy. Day one and you're already doing this?

MilesEvery day. Every single day.

Becca HartwellOkay, go on.

MilesNo, listen. When I'm chasing down a contested sale, I don't just care who owns the car now. I care about every owner in between, every handoff, because if one link in that chain is shaky, the whole title's in question.

Becca HartwellSo Jones reaching out to Sloane is basically the first bill of sale?

MilesKind of, yeah. It's the moment somebody tries to establish, "I had this, and here's who I told." Before a judge ever sees a text message, somebody has to say where it came from and who touched it.

Becca HartwellAnd that's messy when it's texts pulled off somebody's phone instead of a court order.

MilesExactly. A subpoena creates its own paper trail automatically. A publicist calling a publicist, that's word of mouth trying to become evidence.

Becca HartwellSo there's no clean chain of custody. It's a game of telephone with legal stakes.

MilesBasically. Every time it changes hands, somebody downstream has to vouch for it.

Becca HartwellWhich is wild considering a settlement eventually hinged on some of this without ever spelling out which link actually held up in court.

MilesThat's the part people skip. They want the headline, text, scandal, and they don't ask how those texts survived contact with a courtroom.

Becca HartwellFair. So we've got the tip. We've got the publicist chase.

MilesRight. That's the mechanism.

Becca HartwellNow, here's my problem: None of that means anything if we don't actually know what case it was feeding.

MilesTrue. People forget there's an actual lawsuit under all this.

Becca HartwellA real docket, real filings, actual paperwork behind the screenshots.

MilesSo let's get everybody standing on the same ground before we go any further.

Becca HartwellYeah. What was actually being sued over? Who sued who? When this thing even started?

MilesBecause once you know the shape of the case, Avignone's tip in Jones' scramble actually means something.

Becca HartwellInstead of just being a fun piece of gossip.

MilesThen let's lay out the actual case.

Becca HartwellOkay, so for anyone just tuning in, this whole texting saga sits on top of an actual lawsuit. Lively and Baldoni settled the case that came out of Making It Ends With Us.

MilesRight. That's the underlying suit. Filed, fought, and settled. That part's done and dusted.

Becca HartwellDone and dusted, but not forgotten, apparently.

MilesWell, no, because the paperwork's still sitting there. I actually pulled up the federal docket for this thing. It's the consolidated case, Lively versus Wayfarer Studios.

Becca HartwellOoh, you did the homework.

MilesSomebody has to. And that docket's got everything. Original complaint, deposition transcripts, her own testimony from last summer.

Becca HartwellWait, so all of this is just sitting in public record?

MilesPieces of it. And buried in there is a specific exhibit number, Exhibit 247, that later reporting keeps circling back to.

Becca HartwellA number. Just a plain old exhibit number.

MilesFor now.

Becca HartwellFor now?

MilesIt's the kind of thing that means nothing until you know what's actually attached to it.

Becca HartwellRight, like a receipt with no item listed.

MilesExactly. It's a filing tag. Doesn't tell you the content, just tells you where to look.

Becca HartwellSo walk me through it. Is an exhibit number like a page number, or does it actually tell you anything about what's inside?

MilesBit of both. It's a marker the clerk assigns so anyone citing the record knows exactly which document they mean. On its own, it's just an address.

Becca HartwellAn address with a very intriguing house at the end of it.

MilesThat's one way to put it.

Becca HartwellOkay, but here's my question, and it's the one I keep circling back to. The case settled. Money changed hands. Everybody supposedly walks away.

MilesRight.

Becca HartwellSo why do we care who tipped off whom first? The lawsuit's over.

MilesBecause settlements don't erase what got said in discovery.

Becca HartwellSure, but emotionally, if it's resolved, why re-litigate the whole thing in a deposition transcript six people are gonna read?

MilesBecause the public didn't get the settlement terms. We got silence, and silence makes people want the receipts even more.

Becca HartwellFair.

MilesA settlement closes the money question. It does not close the story question.

Becca HartwellOoh, I like that. The money question versus the story question.

MilesAnd the story question is who actually had the power to move information around before any of this went to court?

Becca HartwellWhich brings us right back to that exhibit number.

MilesIt does.

Becca HartwellYou've been sitting on this the whole segment, haven't you?

MilesMaybe a little.

Becca HartwellOkay, spill it. What's actually attached to exhibit 247?

MilesIt's not a memo. It's not a transcript summary.

Becca HartwellMiles?

MilesIt's a group chat.

Becca HartwellShut up.

MilesA real one, screenshots and all.

Becca HartwellAn actual group chat sitting inside a federal exhibit?

MilesAnd it's not just Avignone in there.

Becca HartwellWait, wait, wait. Who else?

MilesLet's get into who's actually typing in that thread because that's the part that changes the whole shape of this case.

Becca HartwellOkay, I'm sitting up straighter. Go. Okay, so the exhibit. December 21st, 2024. Three people in one thread.

MilesLively, Swift, and the contact saved as Roy Orbison.

Becca HartwellWhich we already know is Avignone, but seeing her saved under a fake name in an actual court exhibit? That detail alone is doing a lot of work.

MilesIt's a burner name for a friend in a legal filing. That's the world these people live in.

Becca HartwellRight. Everybody's hiding in plain sight. But here's the actual content. Baldoni just got dropped by his agency.

MilesAnd Swift's text, two words. "You won."

Becca HartwellYou won. Two words. That's it.

MilesThat's the whole message according to the exhibit. No hedging, no hope you're okay, just a verdict.

Becca HartwellAnd Avignone jumps in right after.

MilesSays it changed her life.

Becca HartwellWhose life? Her own? Because she's not a party to this lawsuit.

MilesThat's the thing that stops me. A woman with no legal stake in this case is texting like she just won the case herself.

Becca HartwellWait, wait. Say that again. No legal stake?

MilesNone. She's not suing anybody. She's not being sued. She's a friend in a group chat.

Becca HartwellA friend in a group chat whose reaction ended up unsealed in federal court.

MilesWhich tells you this was never just two women texting about a bad day.

Becca HartwellIt was a victory lap in writing, dated.

MilesAnd I keep thinking about the guy on the other end of it. Baldoni's whole team is now reading, "You won," from Taylor Swift and thinking, "Wait, was she rooting for this outcome the whole time?"

Becca HartwellNot just rooting. Celebrating. There's a difference.

MilesSure, but from a legal strategy seat, that difference barely matters. What matters is she's not some outside observer anymore.

Becca HartwellShe's in the thread, on the record, on a specific date.

MilesAnd once you're in a group chat celebrating somebody's professional downfall, you're not a bystander to the case.

Becca HartwellYou're a character in it.

MilesRight, and characters get questions.

Becca HartwellOh, I see where you're going with this.

MilesA three-word text turned into an exhibit number. Imagine what a deposition does to that.

Becca HartwellSo if she's already on record celebrating the win before it was even legally final?

MilesYou understand exactly why Baldoni's lawyers wanted her under oath, not just under exhibit.

Becca HartwellThey didn't just want the text. They wanted the person who sent it.

MilesSo when you say leverage, what does that actually look like in a courtroom? Do they just read the text out loud and let the jury react?

Becca HartwellMore or less from what these deposition fights look like. Enter it as an exhibit, then ask directly what she meant by it, whether she talked to Lively before sending it.

MilesWhich turns two words into an entire line of questioning.

Becca HartwellExactly. That's the difference between a text and a witness. Okay, so Baldoni's team wanted Swift under oath, specifically about anything she and Lively discussed on set.

MilesSet discussions, not the group chat, not the text, just what happened on set.

Becca HartwellRight. That's the ask according to Variety.

MilesAnd Swift's camp said no.

Becca HartwellNot just no. Her attorney said she has no material role in this action.

MilesBold claim given what we just heard from the group chat.

Becca HartwellAnd get this, they also disputed that she'd even agreed to sit for it in the first place.

MilesWait, so there wasn't even a scheduled date?

Becca HartwellSounds like it never got that far.

MilesThat's a strange hill to plant a flag on if you're truly a bystander.

Becca HartwellWhich is exactly where you and I split.

MilesI don't split on this one. If you're texting, "You won," the night a guy's agency drops him, you have opinions about the case.

Becca HartwellSure, but having opinions in a private chat isn't the same as having facts about a contract dispute.

MilesIt's evidence of state of mind, though.

Becca HartwellState of mind isn't material role. Those are different legal questions.

MilesOkay, counselor.

Becca HartwellI'm serious. Baldoni's lawyers wanted her testimony because it's leverage, not because they think she was on set with a clipboard.

MilesLeverage works both ways. Maybe her side wanted her kept out because she'd say something that helps Lively too much.

Becca HartwellOr because dragging Taylor Swift into a deposition turns a lawsuit into a circus.

MilesA circus that already had exhibit 247 in it.

Becca HartwellFair.

MilesRealistically, though, deposing someone like Swift isn't a quick sit-down. It's scheduling around security, publicists, probably her own attorneys pushing for narrow questions only.

Becca HartwellSo even if it happened, it wouldn't look like a regular witness getting grilled for an afternoon.

MilesNot even close. It'd be negotiated to an inch of its life before she ever said a word under oath.

Becca HartwellWhich almost defeats the purpose of subpoenaing her in the first place.

MilesSo where does that leave us? Did she ever actually sit for it?

Becca HartwellThe reporting we have stops at the fight itself, attorney versus attorney.

MilesWhich tells you something on its own. Nobody fights that hard over a witness who genuinely knows nothing.

Becca HartwellOr everybody fights that hard the second a celebrity's name is anywhere near a subpoena.

MilesEither way, whether she ever got questioned or not-

Becca HartwellThe next fight was just as ugly whether any of it should have seen daylight. The deposition itself didn't stay behind closed doors.

MilesNo. And Lively made sure everyone knew she wasn't thrilled about that.

Becca HartwellDeadline reported she slammed Baldoni's lawyers for making the whole thing public before trial even started.

MilesWait, before trial? So we're talking pre-trial testimony just sitting out in the open?

Becca HartwellRight. Her side wanted it held until an actual trial date, not floating around in headlines beforehand.

MilesWhich tracks. You sit for hours of questions assuming it's discovery, not a press release.

Becca HartwellAnd the room wasn't exactly private to begin with.

MilesWho was actually sitting in it?

Becca HartwellBaldoni, his producing partner Heath Sarowitz, Nathan, and Abel, plus a small army of attorneys on both sides.

MilesFive named people hearing every answer live?

Becca HartwellLive, verbatim, on the record, and however many lawyers billing by the hour just to watch.

MilesAnd from that room, it ends up in front of reporters anyway.

Becca HartwellThat's the fight. Whether releasing it was fair disclosure or leverage dressed up as transparency.

MilesSure. Normal legal process just hits different with famous names attached.

Becca HartwellWhy would Baldoni's side even want it out before trial, though? Doesn't that cut against them, too?

MilesMaybe, but testimony out in public ahead of a trial date can shape the story before a jury or the Internet ever weighs in.

Becca HartwellSo it's less about the law and more about who controls the narrative first.

MilesPretty much the whole argument boiled down.

Becca HartwellOkay, give me your verdict. Out of everyone we've traced through this, who actually held the pen?

MilesI'll say Stephanie Jones, not because she made a public move, but because without a publicist chasing those texts before any subpoena existed, there's no evidence to fight over at all.

Becca HartwellI'm picking Avignone. She's the one who picked up a phone and started the whole chain. No tip, no exhibit, no deposition fight.

MilesSure, but a tip's just a phone call until someone with access turns it into paper a court will accept.

Becca HartwellOkay, but say Jones never gets that call. Does the tip from Avignone even go anywhere on its own?

MilesMaybe nowhere fast. She still needed someone already holding the material.

Becca HartwellWhich is my whole point. The person who picks up the phone matters more than the one who already sits on the files.

MilesOr it proves the opposite. The files were useless sitting with someone who almost didn't make the call.

Becca HartwellWe really did just build an entire case file out of a group chat and a phone call.

MilesWelcome to modern litigation.

Becca HartwellAnd paper's just paper until lawyers argue over who gets to hand it to reporters.

MilesWhich might be the honest answer. Nobody held it alone.

Becca HartwellEvery hand on this had its own reason for touching it.

MilesFriend, publicist, lawyer, pick your favorite. They're all in the file.

Becca HartwellThat's the file all right. Time to shut it. Okay, so my verdict, friendship built the plumbing here. Avignone tipping Blake, Swift texting into that chat, none of it needed a subpoena to move. That's infrastructure nobody put on an org chart.

MilesI'll grant the friendships mattered, but the paper, the group chat, the filings, exhibit 247, that's what a judge can actually weigh. Feelings don't get admitted into evidence.

Becca HartwellSure, but somebody has to hand the judge that paper first.

MilesRight. And that's Jones and Sloane doing the actual legal footwork, not the group chat vibes.

Becca HartwellVibes with receipts, smiles.

MilesFair. My real verdict, don't crown any one person queen of this thing. Everybody in that circle had a piece, and the record only shows us the pieces that got filed.

Becca HartwellAnd I still think Taylor texting, "You won," says more about who's actually plugged in than any brief does.

MilesWe're not settling that today.

Becca HartwellNope. Different episode.

MilesIf you've got a case you want us cracking open like this one, leave it in a review or tag the show and tell us who you think held the power. We genuinely read every single one before we pick next week's file.

Becca HartwellWe're back Wednesday with a new file.

MilesUntil then, go hug a friend who might one day blow up a lawsuit for you.