Lively v. Baldoni: Is $8M the Real Verdict?

Becca Hartwell: And welcome back to Star Witness. Becca here. Miles: And I'm Miles. So we need to talk about a number today. Becca Hartwell: Get this. The Lively-Baldoni case settled back in May. Zero dollars changed hands. Miles: Right. No damages. NBC News covered a ruling saying Lively could seek fees, but not a payout. Becca Hartwell: Wait, so nothing was paid and it's still in federal court? Miles: Exactly. She's back asking for $8,035,000. and 88 cents. Becca Hartwell: Eight million and change for a case that ended with nothing on the table? Miles: No way you're already skeptical. Becca Hartwell: Plot twist. I think this is just how lawyers keep score. Miles: I mean, litigation's expensive. 7,000 hours doesn't file itself. Becca Hartwell: And if you win nothing, I don't think you get to send a bill like it's a verdict. Miles: We're going to go back and forth on that one all episode. Becca Hartwell: Oh, we are. But first, the... The 18 months that got us here, starting December 2024. Miles: There's a fee-shifting law tangled up in this, too, and a judge is ruling that split the wind down the middle. Becca Hartwell: Plus Baldoni's own filing, comparing his bill to what the New York Times got paid. Miles: And a whole PR war running parallel to the paperwork. Becca Hartwell: So, accountability or expensive math? Miles: Becca, walk me through this bill. Becca Hartwell: OK, so picture this: a lawsuit that's officially over, settled, Done. May 2026, term sealed, zero dollars handed-shaked. Miles: Right, a clean walk away for both sides. Becca Hartwell: Except it's not walking away anywhere, Miles. June 29th and 30th, Lively's lawyers file for $7,495,000. Five hundred twenty six dollars and eighty seven cents in fees. Miles: Wait, wait, that's oddly specific. Becca Hartwell: Plus five hundred thirty nine thousand five hundred fourteen and a penny in costs. Music Times ran the combined total on July tenth: eight million thirty five thousand and change. Miles: A whistle for a case that settled for nothing! Becca Hartwell: For a case that settled for nothing! Miles: But here's what I keep coming back to: there was never a trial, no jury ever said who was right. Becca Hartwell: Exactly; so this fee fight is basically the only public schoolboard left. Miles: Which is a strange way to decide a four hundred million dollar story-through a billing dispute. Becca Hartwell: Judge Lewis Liman, gave Baldoni and Wayfarer till July thirteenth to respond; and they did. ABC News reported this week they're asking him to toss the requestors slash it hard. Their argument, Miles: if I remember right, is that seven thousand hours is just a lot of hours. Seven thousand hours-that's not a legal team, Becca Hartwell: that's a small army. Or a very thorough one. Miles: Look, I get the sticker shock, but reputation defense in a case this public, that's not- It's not cheap work. Sure; but eight million dollars is also a statement. Becca Hartwell: It's saying, 'You put me through this, 'You put me through this, now pay for it.' Miles: Or it's just what litigation costs when both sides refuse to blink for over a year. Becca Hartwell: Agree to disagree-for now. Miles: Fair; but doesn't that number make you ask what on earth cost that much in the first place? Becca Hartwell: Right? Like what actually happened on that set that turned into an- To an eight figure paper trail. Miles: Because this didn't start as a fee dispute, it started with allegations back in December, twenty twenty four. Becca Hartwell: And that's exactly where this gets messy. Building on that fee math, rewind with me. December 2024, Lively goes public with harassment claims from the It Ends With Us set. Miles: Plus the smear campaign allegation. Becca Hartwell: Right. And Baldoni doesn't sit on it. January 2025, he countersues her and Ryan Reynolds. NBC News put that number at $400 million. Miles: Whistle, $400 million before the case even got moving. Becca Hartwell: Wait for it ... June, twenty twenty five ... Judge Liman tosses that countersuit completely. Miles: On what grounds? Becca Hartwell: Litigation privilege-you can't sue someone over statements made in a legal filing. Miles: So round one, Lively? Becca Hartwell: Plaintiff, plot twist. Round two, nobody. April twenty twenty six, Liman guts most of her claims too. Harassment, defamation, gone. Miles: So both sides lose? Becca Hartwell: Pretty much-whatever survived she dropped herself, right before the trial that had already slipped from March to May. Miles: So there's no ruling on the actual merits from either side? Becca Hartwell: And then, get this, Baldoni went after the New York Times, too, two hundred and fifty million over their reporting on the smear campaign. Miles: Gasp! He sued The Times? Becca Hartwell: First Amendment Watch covered that one. Dismissed as well. Miles: That's three lawsuits down. Becca Hartwell: Right; four, counting her original claims. Miles: And the only thing still standing is a bill for lawyers' hours. Becca Hartwell: Which matters because Baldoni's team is actually pointing back at the Times case in the fee fight. Miles: How does a dismissed lawsuit against a newspaper help him here? Becca Hartwell: That's the next piece-there's one law doing all the heavy lifting for what's to Speaker 3: come. Becca Hartwell: But still standing. Okay, so before anyone claims victory here, we need to talk statute. Section 47.1. Miles: The law that's actually driving this whole ballgame. Becca Hartwell: Exactly. It's a 2023 California law, and basically it says if you report sexual misconduct, you can't get buried in a retaliatory defamation suit without consequences. It's a shield. Miles: So walk me through it. Without this law, does it? Does any of this fee request even exist? Becca Hartwell: No—full stop. It's the only reason she can ask for a dime. Miles: Ha, so the eight million isn't really about the movie anymore. Becca Hartwell: Right—it's about who gets protected for speaking up, and Judge Liman actually ruled on that piece back on June twelfth. Miles: And? Becca Hartwell: He found she brought her claims in good faith, no evidence of malice, and named her the prevailing defendant. Attendant Miles: Okay, Becca Hartwell: A Miles: that's a real win for her. Becca Hartwell: real one. But he also denied her the trouble and punitive damages her team wanted. Miles: Wait, so he split the baby? Becca Hartwell: Pretty much everybody gets to claim something. Miles: That explains why both camps are out here doing v Becca Hartwell: Victory laps on social media. Miles: Right-technically true for both of them. Becca Hartwell: Now here's what confused me: the case settled, nobody paid anybody, so why is there a new filing weeks later? Miles: Because the settlement specifically preserved her right to go after fees, it wasn't an oversight, it was written in. Becca Hartwell: So the ink dries on one document and it just unlocks the next fight. Miles: Basically, yeah. Becca Hartwell: And is this actually Speaker 3: true? Becca Hartwell: Actually over or could there be a round three? Miles: That's the part people are missing-the ruling leaves the door open for her to pursue damages through a separate suit or a counterclaim. Becca Hartwell: So this could still generate another filing. Miles: Good-Nobody's closed that door. Becca Hartwell: I mean I get why the law protects people who come forward, but a Judge basically saying good faith no malice isn't the same as saying the harassment happened, Right? Right? Miles: No, and that's the tension. Liman ruled on the legal question-was this suit brought in bad faith; he didn't rule on whether Baldoni actually did what she said. Becca Hartwell: Which is a distinction a lot of headlines are just skipping past. Miles: Shocking, I know. Okay, so the statute gets her a seat at the table. Now flip that on its head-because Baldoni's team isn't just accepting the number. Remember! Becca Hartwell: Oh, they are not! Wait till you hear what Garofalo and Freedman filed on July thirteenth. Miles: Tell me it's good! Becca Hartwell: It's a whole billing brawl. Let's get into that number. Miles: Okay, the July thirteenth filing from Baldoni's lawyers, Ellyn Garofalo and Bryan Freedman, is not playing nice. Becca Hartwell: Whats their move? Miles: They call the request "nothing like a normal fee motion," multiple attorneys billing the same hearings, research hours that just balloon. Becca Hartwell: And they've got a comparison ready, don't they? Miles: Oh, they do: the New York Times, after winning dismissal of what Baldoni's team says was basically the same defamation claim. asked for $181,722.70. Becca Hartwell: That's it? Miles: That's it. Forbes and The Hollywood Reporter both flagged it. That's roughly a fortieth of what Lively's side wants. Becca Hartwell: Okay, but here's how I think about this. Forbes reported the request covers more than 7,000 hours total. Miles: Right. Becca Hartwell: And Hollywood Reporter broke down one lawyer specifically. Michael Gottlieb, $457,000 over 224 hours, that's almost $2,200 an hour, even after he knocked 15% off. Miles: That's a rate, sure, doesn't make it wrong. Becca Hartwell: I'm not saying wrong, I'm saying that's a Bugatti restoration bill for a case that settled for zero. Miles: Okay, that's a great analogy, but Lively's team isn't pulling numbers out of the air. She personally produced over 7,000... ten thousand documents, and other parties added tens of thousands more. Becca Hartwell: Sure, but volume isn't the same as value. Miles: It's the same case, though; the harassment claims, the retaliation claims, the countersuit, all tangled together; you can't cleanly separate the billing. Becca Hartwell: Maybe-or maybe intertwined-is doing a lot of work in that sentence. Miles: The whole point of Section 471 is that the person who f Who filed the retaliatory suit eats the bill. That's not a moral argument, that's the statute. Becca Hartwell: Then why does the Times number even exist? Someone's going to have to explain that gap to a judge. Miles: And that's exactly the fight nobody in public is having, because in public both sides are busy calling themselves the victim. So, here's the timing that got me: Baldoni posts a video with Emily days before this fee opposition drops. Becca Hartwell: Right, the Instagram video, July 8th. Miles: They're not naming Lively, but Emily calls it injustice, Justin says he is still healing from something traumatic. Becca Hartwell: Hmm, convenient timing, sure, but the man's career took a hit. He's allowed to say it hurt. Miles: It's just Healing Video Wednesday, hostile... Civil court filing Monday. That's choreography, Miles. Becca Hartwell: Or it's a guy who waited two years to talk finally talking. Miles: Meanwhile, his camp's whole message is the scoreboard: ten of thirteen claims dismissed, zero dollars paid. Becca Hartwell: And the Livelys lawyers, Gottlieb and Hudson, are calling Liman's ruling a landmark against intimidation suits. Miles: Two sealed settlements, two victory laps. Speaker 4: Wow! Becca Hartwell: Nobody's actually seen the receipts, except the judge. Miles: Which means the public's picking a side based on vibes, not the docket. Becca Hartwell: A tearful Instagram video versus a press release quote from an attorney. That's the whole information diet. Miles: And somehow people walk away feeling certain either way. Becca Hartwell: Certainty is cheap when nobody's actually read the filing. Miles: Which is exactly the problem when we try to hand out a verdict. Verdict here. Becca Hartwell: Because there isn't a referee-there's just Liman. Miles: And what he decides next might matter a lot more than either victory lap. Okay, so before we let this case go, Miles, I need a real verdict from you. Fee award or bust, does either side actually win here? Becca Hartwell: Money is the only scoreboard left. No trial, no jury finding on the harassment claims, just a judge deciding who pays whose lawyers. Miles: Right, but a payout isn't the same as being believed. That's the part that bugs me. Becca Hartwell: Sure, but for Lively's camp, getting Baldoni to write a seven-figure check Your check under Section forty-seven point one is the vindication. That's the whole design of the statute. Miles: And if Liman knocks the number down to something small? Becca Hartwell: Then Baldoni's side calls it a rounding error and moves on. Speaker 5: Hmm. Becca Hartwell: That's the fork in the road. Speaker 5: Which is exactly why this ruling matters way past these two people: a big number turns forty seven point one into something producers actually fear before they countersue. Becca Hartwell: And a token award turns it into a footnote nobody cites again. Speaker 5: Wait, so Liman's basically writing the instruction manual for every future Hollywood harassment fight? Becca Hartwell: Pretty much. No pressure or anything. Speaker 5: None at all. Becca Hartwell: Here's what keeps nagging at me, though: Who can even afford to test this law? Gottlieb's team billing at rates like that for seven thousand plus hours-that's a fight only a studio backed star can bankroll. Speaker 5: Meaning: the deterrent only protects people who can already survive the bill. Becca Hartwell: Exactly the problem: a woman without Lively's resources takes one look at that invoice and settles quiet instead. Speaker 5: Which is the lesson I keep coming back to: going public doesn't end when the headlines do. You're signing up for eighteen months of litigation math after the fact. Becca Hartwell: Accountability with a billing cycle. Speaker 5: Pretty much, Becca Hartwell: Yeah. Speaker 5: and nobody warns you about that part. Becca Hartwell: So we don't agree on what counts as winning here. Miles: Nope; not even close. Becca Hartwell: Which means it's all sitting on Liman's desk now. Miles: And whatever number comes out, that's the only thing any one is going to remember about this case in five years. Okay, if you're just tuning in for the wrap-up, welcome to the mess. Becca Hartwell: The billing fight is basically the whole scoreboard now that there's no trial. Miles: Right, no jury, no verdict, just Judge Liman deciding who actually won. Becca Hartwell: And that 7,000 hour number still gets me. That's not a legal team, that's a small army. Miles: I still say that reflects how ugly this case got. Becca Hartwell: Agree to disagree. Miles: Forever. Becca Hartwell: Here's the takeaway, though. Winning in court and winning the public don't always line up. Miles: Exactly. And whatever Liman rules next decides how much bite this file has. Becca Hartwell: We'll be watching. Miles: Got a celebrity case you want us to put on trial? Drop it in the reviews. Tag us at Star Witness Pod. Becca Hartwell: New episodes every Wednesday. Subscribe so you don't miss the verdict. Miles: Thanks for hanging with us today. Becca Hartwell: See you next time.