Lively v. Baldoni: Is $8M the Real Verdict?

Becca HartwellAnd welcome back to Star Witness. Becca here.

MilesAnd I'm Miles. So we need to talk about a number today.

Becca HartwellGet this. The Lively-Baldoni case settled back in May. Zero dollars changed hands.

MilesRight. No damages. NBC News covered a ruling saying Lively could seek fees, but not a payout.

Becca HartwellWait, so nothing was paid and it's still in federal court?

MilesExactly. She's back asking for $8,035,000. and 88 cents.

Becca HartwellEight million and change for a case that ended with nothing on the table?

MilesNo way you're already skeptical.

Becca HartwellPlot twist. I think this is just how lawyers keep score.

MilesI mean, litigation's expensive. 7,000 hours doesn't file itself.

Becca HartwellAnd if you win nothing, I don't think you get to send a bill like it's a verdict.

MilesWe're going to go back and forth on that one all episode.

Becca HartwellOh, we are. But first, the... The 18 months that got us here, starting December 2024.

MilesThere's a fee-shifting law tangled up in this, too, and a judge is ruling that split the wind down the middle.

Becca HartwellPlus Baldoni's own filing, comparing his bill to what the New York Times got paid.

MilesAnd a whole PR war running parallel to the paperwork.

Becca HartwellSo, accountability or expensive math?

MilesBecca, walk me through this bill.

Becca HartwellOK, so picture this: a lawsuit that's officially over, settled, Done. May 2026, term sealed, zero dollars handed-shaked.

MilesRight, a clean walk away for both sides.

Becca HartwellExcept it's not walking away anywhere, Miles. June 29th and 30th, Lively's lawyers file for $7,495,000. Five hundred twenty six dollars and eighty seven cents in fees.

MilesWait, wait, that's oddly specific.

Becca HartwellPlus five hundred thirty nine thousand five hundred fourteen and a penny in costs. Music Times ran the combined total on July tenth: eight million thirty five thousand and change.

MilesA whistle for a case that settled for nothing!

Becca HartwellFor a case that settled for nothing!

MilesBut here's what I keep coming back to: there was never a trial, no jury ever said who was right.

Becca HartwellExactly; so this fee fight is basically the only public schoolboard left.

MilesWhich is a strange way to decide a four hundred million dollar story-through a billing dispute.

Becca HartwellJudge Lewis Liman, gave Baldoni and Wayfarer till July thirteenth to respond; and they did. ABC News reported this week they're asking him to toss the requestors slash it hard. Their argument,

Milesif I remember right, is that seven thousand hours is just a lot of hours. Seven thousand hours-that's not a legal team,

Becca Hartwellthat's a small army. Or a very thorough one.

MilesLook, I get the sticker shock, but reputation defense in a case this public, that's not- It's not cheap work. Sure; but eight million dollars is also a statement.

Becca HartwellIt's saying, 'You put me through this, 'You put me through this, now pay for it.'

MilesOr it's just what litigation costs when both sides refuse to blink for over a year.

Becca HartwellAgree to disagree-for now.

MilesFair; but doesn't that number make you ask what on earth cost that much in the first place?

Becca HartwellRight? Like what actually happened on that set that turned into an- To an eight figure paper trail.

MilesBecause this didn't start as a fee dispute, it started with allegations back in December, twenty twenty four.

Becca HartwellAnd that's exactly where this gets messy. Building on that fee math, rewind with me. December 2024, Lively goes public with harassment claims from the It Ends With Us set.

MilesPlus the smear campaign allegation.

Becca HartwellRight. And Baldoni doesn't sit on it. January 2025, he countersues her and Ryan Reynolds. NBC News put that number at $400 million.

MilesWhistle, $400 million before the case even got moving.

Becca HartwellWait for it ... June, twenty twenty five ... Judge Liman tosses that countersuit completely.

MilesOn what grounds?

Becca HartwellLitigation privilege-you can't sue someone over statements made in a legal filing.

MilesSo round one, Lively?

Becca HartwellPlaintiff, plot twist. Round two, nobody. April twenty twenty six, Liman guts most of her claims too. Harassment, defamation, gone.

MilesSo both sides lose?

Becca HartwellPretty much-whatever survived she dropped herself, right before the trial that had already slipped from March to May.

MilesSo there's no ruling on the actual merits from either side?

Becca HartwellAnd then, get this, Baldoni went after the New York Times, too, two hundred and fifty million over their reporting on the smear campaign.

MilesGasp! He sued The Times?

Becca HartwellFirst Amendment Watch covered that one. Dismissed as well.

MilesThat's three lawsuits down.

Becca HartwellRight; four, counting her original claims.

MilesAnd the only thing still standing is a bill for lawyers' hours.

Becca HartwellWhich matters because Baldoni's team is actually pointing back at the Times case in the fee fight.

MilesHow does a dismissed lawsuit against a newspaper help him here?

Becca HartwellThat's the next piece-there's one law doing all the heavy lifting for what's to

Speaker 3come.

Becca HartwellBut still standing. Okay, so before anyone claims victory here, we need to talk statute. Section 47.1.

MilesThe law that's actually driving this whole ballgame.

Becca HartwellExactly. It's a 2023 California law, and basically it says if you report sexual misconduct, you can't get buried in a retaliatory defamation suit without consequences. It's a shield.

MilesSo walk me through it. Without this law, does it? Does any of this fee request even exist?

Becca HartwellNo—full stop. It's the only reason she can ask for a dime.

MilesHa, so the eight million isn't really about the movie anymore.

Becca HartwellRight—it's about who gets protected for speaking up, and Judge Liman actually ruled on that piece back on June twelfth.

MilesAnd?

Becca HartwellHe found she brought her claims in good faith, no evidence of malice, and named her the prevailing defendant. Attendant

MilesOkay,

Becca HartwellA

Milesthat's a real win for her.

Becca Hartwellreal one. But he also denied her the trouble and punitive damages her team wanted.

MilesWait, so he split the baby?

Becca HartwellPretty much everybody gets to claim something.

MilesThat explains why both camps are out here doing v

Becca HartwellVictory laps on social media.

MilesRight-technically true for both of them.

Becca HartwellNow here's what confused me: the case settled, nobody paid anybody, so why is there a new filing weeks later?

MilesBecause the settlement specifically preserved her right to go after fees, it wasn't an oversight, it was written in.

Becca HartwellSo the ink dries on one document and it just unlocks the next fight.

MilesBasically, yeah.

Becca HartwellAnd is this actually

Speaker 3true?

Becca HartwellActually over or could there be a round three?

MilesThat's the part people are missing-the ruling leaves the door open for her to pursue damages through a separate suit or a counterclaim.

Becca HartwellSo this could still generate another filing.

MilesGood-Nobody's closed that door.

Becca HartwellI mean I get why the law protects people who come forward, but a Judge basically saying good faith no malice isn't the same as saying the harassment happened, Right? Right?

MilesNo, and that's the tension. Liman ruled on the legal question-was this suit brought in bad faith; he didn't rule on whether Baldoni actually did what she said.

Becca HartwellWhich is a distinction a lot of headlines are just skipping past.

MilesShocking, I know. Okay, so the statute gets her a seat at the table. Now flip that on its head-because Baldoni's team isn't just accepting the number. Remember!

Becca HartwellOh, they are not! Wait till you hear what Garofalo and Freedman filed on July thirteenth.

MilesTell me it's good!

Becca HartwellIt's a whole billing brawl. Let's get into that number.

MilesOkay, the July thirteenth filing from Baldoni's lawyers, Ellyn Garofalo and Bryan Freedman, is not playing nice.

Becca HartwellWhats their move?

MilesThey call the request "nothing like a normal fee motion," multiple attorneys billing the same hearings, research hours that just balloon.

Becca HartwellAnd they've got a comparison ready, don't they?

MilesOh, they do: the New York Times, after winning dismissal of what Baldoni's team says was basically the same defamation claim. asked for $181,722.70.

Becca HartwellThat's it?

MilesThat's it. Forbes and The Hollywood Reporter both flagged it. That's roughly a fortieth of what Lively's side wants.

Becca HartwellOkay, but here's how I think about this. Forbes reported the request covers more than 7,000 hours total.

MilesRight.

Becca HartwellAnd Hollywood Reporter broke down one lawyer specifically. Michael Gottlieb, $457,000 over 224 hours, that's almost $2,200 an hour, even after he knocked 15% off.

MilesThat's a rate, sure, doesn't make it wrong.

Becca HartwellI'm not saying wrong, I'm saying that's a Bugatti restoration bill for a case that settled for zero.

MilesOkay, that's a great analogy, but Lively's team isn't pulling numbers out of the air. She personally produced over 7,000... ten thousand documents, and other parties added tens of thousands more.

Becca HartwellSure, but volume isn't the same as value.

MilesIt's the same case, though; the harassment claims, the retaliation claims, the countersuit, all tangled together; you can't cleanly separate the billing.

Becca HartwellMaybe-or maybe intertwined-is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

MilesThe whole point of Section 471 is that the person who f Who filed the retaliatory suit eats the bill. That's not a moral argument, that's the statute.

Becca HartwellThen why does the Times number even exist? Someone's going to have to explain that gap to a judge.

MilesAnd that's exactly the fight nobody in public is having, because in public both sides are busy calling themselves the victim. So, here's the timing that got me: Baldoni posts a video with Emily days before this fee opposition drops.

Becca HartwellRight, the Instagram video, July 8th.

MilesThey're not naming Lively, but Emily calls it injustice, Justin says he is still healing from something traumatic.

Becca HartwellHmm, convenient timing, sure, but the man's career took a hit. He's allowed to say it hurt.

MilesIt's just Healing Video Wednesday, hostile... Civil court filing Monday. That's choreography, Miles.

Becca HartwellOr it's a guy who waited two years to talk finally talking.

MilesMeanwhile, his camp's whole message is the scoreboard: ten of thirteen claims dismissed, zero dollars paid.

Becca HartwellAnd the Livelys lawyers, Gottlieb and Hudson, are calling Liman's ruling a landmark against intimidation suits.

MilesTwo sealed settlements, two victory laps.

Speaker 4Wow!

Becca HartwellNobody's actually seen the receipts, except the judge.

MilesWhich means the public's picking a side based on vibes, not the docket.

Becca HartwellA tearful Instagram video versus a press release quote from an attorney. That's the whole information diet.

MilesAnd somehow people walk away feeling certain either way.

Becca HartwellCertainty is cheap when nobody's actually read the filing.

MilesWhich is exactly the problem when we try to hand out a verdict. Verdict here.

Becca HartwellBecause there isn't a referee-there's just Liman.

MilesAnd what he decides next might matter a lot more than either victory lap. Okay, so before we let this case go, Miles, I need a real verdict from you. Fee award or bust, does either side actually win here?

Becca HartwellMoney is the only scoreboard left. No trial, no jury finding on the harassment claims, just a judge deciding who pays whose lawyers.

MilesRight, but a payout isn't the same as being believed. That's the part that bugs me.

Becca HartwellSure, but for Lively's camp, getting Baldoni to write a seven-figure check Your check under Section forty-seven point one is the vindication. That's the whole design of the statute.

MilesAnd if Liman knocks the number down to something small?

Becca HartwellThen Baldoni's side calls it a rounding error and moves on.

Speaker 5Hmm.

Becca HartwellThat's the fork in the road.

Speaker 5Which is exactly why this ruling matters way past these two people: a big number turns forty seven point one into something producers actually fear before they countersue.

Becca HartwellAnd a token award turns it into a footnote nobody cites again.

Speaker 5Wait, so Liman's basically writing the instruction manual for every future Hollywood harassment fight?

Becca HartwellPretty much. No pressure or anything.

Speaker 5None at all.

Becca HartwellHere's what keeps nagging at me, though: Who can even afford to test this law? Gottlieb's team billing at rates like that for seven thousand plus hours-that's a fight only a studio backed star can bankroll.

Speaker 5Meaning: the deterrent only protects people who can already survive the bill.

Becca HartwellExactly the problem: a woman without Lively's resources takes one look at that invoice and settles quiet instead.

Speaker 5Which is the lesson I keep coming back to: going public doesn't end when the headlines do. You're signing up for eighteen months of litigation math after the fact.

Becca HartwellAccountability with a billing cycle.

Speaker 5Pretty much,

Becca HartwellYeah.

Speaker 5and nobody warns you about that part.

Becca HartwellSo we don't agree on what counts as winning here.

MilesNope; not even close.

Becca HartwellWhich means it's all sitting on Liman's desk now.

MilesAnd whatever number comes out, that's the only thing any one is going to remember about this case in five years. Okay, if you're just tuning in for the wrap-up, welcome to the mess.

Becca HartwellThe billing fight is basically the whole scoreboard now that there's no trial.

MilesRight, no jury, no verdict, just Judge Liman deciding who actually won.

Becca HartwellAnd that 7,000 hour number still gets me. That's not a legal team, that's a small army.

MilesI still say that reflects how ugly this case got.

Becca HartwellAgree to disagree.

MilesForever.

Becca HartwellHere's the takeaway, though. Winning in court and winning the public don't always line up.

MilesExactly. And whatever Liman rules next decides how much bite this file has.

Becca HartwellWe'll be watching.

MilesGot a celebrity case you want us to put on trial? Drop it in the reviews. Tag us at Star Witness Pod.

Becca HartwellNew episodes every Wednesday. Subscribe so you don't miss the verdict.

MilesThanks for hanging with us today.

Becca HartwellSee you next time.