HR Unfiltered - brought to you by SOPEOPLE

To close out season one, it's just the two of us and we've saved one of the most important topics in people leadership for last. Psychological safety has had a decade of utter hype. Google gave it a TED Talk moment, a lot of HR decks have slides on it and yet most organisations are measuring it wrong, talking about it wrong, and - crucially - doing it wrong. In this episode Dean goes full geek-mode on the evidence while Sue does what she does best: Holds the mirror up to what's actually happening in real organisations right now. What came out of that conversation was something we think every HR leader, people manager, and CEO needs to sit with for a long time. The 3 Ms: the Myths/Misinterpretations, and the Mishandlings - and why the gap between knowing and doing remains one of the most expensive problems in organisational life. We get into the origin story - why a 1999 hospital study and Google's four-year Aristotle Project both point to the same ugly truth about silence in teams. Five common myths - from "it means being nice to each other" to "there's no hard business case" - dismantled with the evidence to back it up. The mishandlings - what organisations do in the name of psychological safety that actively makes things worse: The survey with no follow-up, the training programme that changes nothing, the resilience initiative that blames the individual for a systemic problem, and the CEO whose face in a Q&A killed candour for six months. The three things any manager can do on Monday morning. Referenced in this episode Amy Edmondson - The Fearless Organization (Wiley, 2018) and her foundational 1999 research on psychological safety in medical teams. Google Project Aristotle (2012–2015) - the study of 180 teams that found psychological safety was the single biggest predictor of team effectiveness. Tim Clark - The 4 Stages of Psychological Safety (Berrett-Koehler, 2020). Brené Brown - research on shame, vulnerability, and why people hide mistakes rather than own them. Morrison & Milliken (2000) - organisational silence research: People don't stay quiet because they have nothing to say. Erik de Haan and Craig Johnson - leadership shadow and the long reach of how leaders show up. The Pratfall Effect - and why Joanna Lumley is, apparently, the perfect case study. Previous HR Unfiltered episodes mentioned: Tw@ts with Carolyn Hobdey Conversation with a CEO (Luke McKeever) Confidence with Kirsty The HR Archaeology episode WTF is Commercial HR episode and Last week's episode with Tom. Season 2 lined up and ready to go! Thirty episodes in season 1 all showcasing a LOT of opinions but ZERO wallowing. We came to say the things that don't get said in most companies, and we're far from done yet. Season 2 is coming back bigger, bolder, and with even less patience for HR and leadership mediocrity. Watch this space - and if you've been listening since the beginning, thank you BIG TIME. This progressively unfiltered community is exactly why we're going to keep going. Follow, leave a review, and follow HR Unfiltered on LinkedIn so you don't miss what's coming next. Connect with Dean: LinkedIn Connect with Sue: LinkedIn If you need HR advice or intelligent people and culture solutions, check out www.sopeople.co.uk. And don't forget, if you're a leader or people professional looking for experienced psychotherapy and/or coaching, get in touch with Dean.

What happens when an FCIPD-qualified HR consultant spends their evenings performing as an award-winning drag queen? In this candid, funny and surprisingly thought-provoking conversation, Tom Henderson-Griffiths (better known on stage as Aunty Ginger) explores the tension between authenticity and professionalism, the realities of bringing your whole self to work, and why HR and leadership still has a long way to go when it comes to genuine inclusion. Along the way, the discussion covers everything from DE&I box-ticking, workplace harassment, grievance investigations and engagement surveys, to drag performance, workplace identity, and a soon-to-be-famous question: if Becky really is a bitch, should HR care? Tom can be contacted on LinkedIn and offers consulting services through EZHR. As always, your thoughts, comments and challenges are welcome on the HR, Unfiltered page. If you're looking for straight-talking, highly progressive and commercial-grade HR/People support (fractional CPO, advisory, transformation, coaching and Executive/HR psychotherapy) feel free to get in touch with SOPEOPLE . We're also available at hiya@sopeople.co.uk .

What if the biggest risk posed by the Employment Rights Act isn’t legal at all? In this episode of HR, Unfiltered, Dean and Sue are joined by employment lawyer Dan Smith from People Law to explore a provocative idea: Many of the challenges organisations fear from the Employment Rights Act may actually be management problems in disguise. Drawing on years of tribunal advocacy, employment law practice and leadership development work, Dan argues that legislation doesn’t create poor management, it simply exposes it. The conversation explores why organisations continue to underinvest in management capability despite overwhelming evidence of its commercial value, how HR can reclaim strategic influence by stepping away from operational firefighting, and why the future of workplace performance may depend less on policy and more on relationships. The discussion also tackles the growing tension between intent and impact, the rise of workplace conflict, the increasing legal awareness of employees, and the danger of organisations responding to uncertainty with silence rather than leadership. Most importantly, Dan introduces his framework for building workplace connection through four essential management behaviours: Communication, Courage, Curiosity and Candour. As Dan puts it, when managers communicate well, have the courage to address issues early, remain genuinely curious about people and deliver kind, szpecific truth, connection naturally follows. And connection is what drives healthy workplace relationships. Dan Smith is a Legal Director at People Law and leads Liberate Management Training, helping organisations build management capability, strengthen workplace relationships and reduce people risk. HR, Unfiltered is the podcast where HR, leadership, business and society collide; no scripts, sod-all spin, and brimming with honest conversation about the realities of work, people and performance.

What does it take for HR to be seen as a genuine business function rather than a support service? In this week's episode, Dean and Sue are joined by fractional Chief People Officer and one of HR Mag’s Most Influential, Nebel Crowhurst, to explore the future of HR, leadership and work itself. From building influential networks and communities to challenging the profession’s obsession with engagement scores, Nebel makes the case for a more commercial, courageous and human-centred approach to people leadership. The conversation tackles AI, agile HR, employee experience, appreciation versus recognition, and why emotionally intelligent leaders remain the biggest differentiator in organisational success. Along the way, Nebel offers a provocative challenge to HR professionals: If you don’t have a voice in your organisation, what might need to change about how you’re showing up? This is a truly candid discussion about credibility, leadership, technology and the future of the profession. Nebel can be reached, contacted and connected with on LinkedIn . As always, Dean and Sue can be contacted via email on hiya@sopeople.co.uk . Please feel free to follow the HR, Unfiltered LinkedIn page . For SOPEOPLE's GLOBAL advisory, project, transformation, fractional CPO services, proprietary Executive/Performance Therapy and signature PlayerCoach coaching, check out www.sopeople.co.uk .

Dr Jo Burrell is a Clinical Psychologist, co-founder of Ultimate Resilience, and co-author of the 2026 HR Mental Wellbeing Report which is now in its third year and drawing on data from nearly 3,000 HR professionals. The numbers are confronting: 74% showing symptoms of depression, 73% anxiety, 62% likely experiencing burnout, and 38% considering leaving the profession entirely. But in this conversation we go well beneath the statistics. We explore how the report was designed using clinical-grade measures (the same tools a GP uses before prescribing medication) and what it actually means to score at those thresholds. We also get into the invisibility of emotional labour, why HR professionals are among the least likely people to seek support despite designing it for everyone else, why "workload" may be too blunt a word for what the profession is actually carrying, and what three years of consistent data tells us about the structural problem underneath it all. Dr Jo Burrell is a joy to speak to and can be reached on LinkedIn . The HR Wellbeing Report published today, 1 June 2026, is available to download here . As always, you can get in touch with Dean and Sue via hiya@sopeople.co.uk. And very importantly, if you are struggling with work or experiencing any emotional challenges, please get in touch with Dean about his psychotherapy practice, or he can point you in the direction of someone suitable.

This week, Dean Corbett and Sue O’Callaghan are joined by leadership consultant and former CPO Lorna Baines for one of the most honest conversations we’ve had yet about leadership, HR and organisational reality. Together, we explore: Why “helpful HR” may actually be holding the profession back The difference between being nice and being kind Why psychological safety is not the absence of difficult conversations Leadership ego, narcissism and organisational dysfunction Why most leadership development programmes fail The power of facilitation over hero leadership Collective leadership and “Total Football” HR’s role as truth teller, coach and systems thinker The loneliness of HR work Imposter syndrome, anxiety and corporate survival AI, uncertainty and the future capability requirements of HR Why culture is far more than values on a mug A deeply human conversation about leadership, courage, honesty and what modern people work now demands from all of us. Topics include leadership, culture, organisational systems, psychological safety, AI, HR strategy, facilitation, emotional intelligence, business transformation and the future of people leadership. As she says, Lorna is available on LinkedIn .

Everyone says they care about AI ethics. Very few organisations are actually doing anything meaningful with it. This week Dean and Sue sit down with Oliver Hill - Head of HR, qualified AI ethics practitioner, and former nightclub bouncer - to have the conversation most leadership teams might be avoiding. It's not theoretical, it's not policy-heavy, it's about what happens at the point of decision, when the algorithm says you're fine, the data team says it's legal, and something in your gut says it isn't. Get hold of Oli on LinkedIn .

Erica Farmer, author of AI for People Professionals and host of AI for the Average Joe, joins Deano for this episode to state the obvious and less obvious... AI has landed in HR - but most organisations are still stuck somewhere between dabbling, panicking and pretending they have a strategy because someone switched on Copilot. In this episode, Deano and Erica chat to cut through the noise and talk about what AI adoption in HR actually requires: Confidence, clarity, permission, psychological safety and a proper people-first approach. Erica explains why AI is not “just another system implementation”, why HR needs to stop waiting for IT to own the human side of transformation, and why every HR professional now needs to see themselves as a change architect. Why AI is different from traditional workplace technology The biggest mistake HR is making with AI adoption Why policies and toolkits are not enough The importance of creating an AI manifesto How to move from experimentation to meaningful adoption Erica’s concept of the “AI dividend” Why people need personal buy-in before organisational buy-in The role of psychological safety in AI enablement Why HR and IT must collaborate — but HR cannot outsource the people bit Why prompt lists are not enough How AI can support wellbeing, inclusion and productivity What to do when adoption stalls The first thing nervous or curious users should try AI adoption is not a tech rollout. It is a people change. If employees do not understand why AI is being introduced, how it affects them, what they are allowed to do with it, and where the guardrails are, they will either avoid it or use it at a very surface level. The organisations seeing progress are the ones giving people permission to experiment, linking AI to personal benefit, and creating space for people to redesign work from the ground up. Connect with Erica Farmer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ericafarmer Listen to AI for the Average Joe: https://www.youtube.com/@AIForTheAverageJoe Buy AI for People Professionals: Available NOW from Kogan Page and Amazon.

Sue is back. And we've brought in someone who has spent her career in rooms where the numbers matter, the pressure is real, and the conversations people most need to have are the ones nobody's having. Carolyn Hobdey - author, Lean Master, YouTuber and self-described work in progress - talks about the inner t**t we all carry, why most leadership failure is about avoidance rather than aggression, why male leaders are more afraid than they look, and what HR needs to start doing differently. Including, possibly, sorting out its own house first. Carolyn's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carolynhobdey/ Carolyn's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmN6-u8U2LA

In this episode of HR, Unfiltered, Deano is joined by Michelle Hartley for a conversation that goes far beyond “showing up differently.” Michelle shares her experience of burning out three times in a single year, and the slow, deliberate journey back to herself through what she calls “1% moments.” Together, they explore the psychological cost of performing a False Self at work, and why reclaiming authenticity isn’t indulgent, it’s essential. The discussion also introduces the Perceived Weirdness Index: The idea that to create real change, HR professionals and changemakers need to be different enough to be noticed, but credible enough to be heard. From LEGO in boardrooms to reframing metrics in commercial language, this episode challenges traditional ideas of professionalism and impact. It’s a raw, honest and thought-provoking conversation about burnout, presence, and what it really takes to influence organisations. Links & resources: Michelle Hartley https://www.linkedin.com/in/michellehartleyfinderofawesome/ Michelle’s business https://peoplesorted.co.uk/ Michelle runs a HRBP programme - you can get on the waiting list here: https://mailchi.mp/d3629fe1a70b/hrbp-programme And if you fancy a taste of the days in life of Michelle life, check out this thing she calls a ‘glow up’: https://mailchi.mp/peoplesorted/glow-me-tf-up Perceived Weirdness Index chapter: https://naomistanford.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/e6740-presencearticlejonno.pdf Kelly Swingler https://www.kellyswingler.com/

Deano catches up with Anwen Bottois, founder of Purple Sky Consulting and host of the HR Strategy in the Hot Seat podcast. Anwen spent over two decades as an HR leader across manufacturing, not-for-profit, British Gas, and higher education before setting up on her own to focus on what she cares about most: Helping leaders actually love the job of leading. This is a conversation about what really happens when people step into leadership, and why so much of what we do to prepare them (if anything!) falls short. In this episode: The moment Anwen stepped up to associate director level and genuinely thought "what is it we do to people?", despite already being an experienced HR professional Her three-part framework: Clear, Capable, Confident and where leaders consistently fall over Why conflict is a choice, not a circumstance, and how leaning in early prevents the build-up The accountability conversation done properly: Why ownership has to come before you can hold anyone to anything Why she uses the word sincerely instead of authentically and what the difference means in practice Her mission: More leaders who love leading, not just tolerate it How to make the ROI case for personalised development when your organisation is hardwired to reach for the group programme Why the learning doesn't happen in the training room, and what to do about it. Links: Anwen on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/anwenbottois-leadershipcoach Purple Sky Consulting: purpleskyconsulting.co.uk HR Strategy in the Hot Seat podcast — find it via Anwen's LinkedIn and website

Thirty years of employee engagement surveys, billions spent, and the data is getting worse, not better. In this episode, Dean and Sue take a hard look at why the engagement model isn’t working, and why many organisations are measuring symptoms instead of fixing causes. From “HR archaeology” and the illusion of action plans, to the role of managers in shaping everyday experience, they unpack what’s really driving (or killing) performance. Drawing on: Self-Determination Theory Thomas International's Connection Intelligence, and Lived experience inside organisations... ... we explore what actually creates the conditions for people to thrive. This is a direct, practical, and occasionally uncomfortable conversation for CEOs, founders, and HR leaders who suspect there’s a better way, but haven’t yet found it. And if you're keen to help, however you can, Sue's friend Katie, please use this GoFundMe link: https://lnkd.in/eRUm5-yQ As always, you can challenge our thinking and add to the conversation via www.sopeople.co.uk or by emailing hiya@sopeople.co.uk .

In this episode, Deano flies solo and is joined by Sean Miller, who brings nearly 30 years in HR (incl. L&D and OD), and is a specialist-in-training in organisational transactional analysis, for a conversation about why organisations get stuck and what HR can actually do about it. They cover: The "Yes, But" game and why it's not incompetence, it's pattern; Berne's ego states and how language shifts them; the gap between public and private organisational structure; etiquette, techniques and character as a diagnostic tool; and why contracting is the work, not the preamble to it. Clear, practical, and hopefully thought-provoking about human systems. (The best kind of episode, no?!) Sean can be reached on LinkedIn and www.brightn.co.uk! And please feel free to follow HR, Unfiltered on LinkedIn as well.

Chris Manning joins Dean and Sue, and makes a compelling case that employee experience isn't a platform you buy or a project you launch; it's the sum total of every process, system, approval chain and human interaction your people touch every single day. Armed with real examples from Unilever and Nuffield Health, he unpacks the frameworks that actually move the needle, and explains exactly why 70% of engagement variance sitting with the manager should keep every CPO up at night. Chris is the MD of Experience HR, and can be found on LinkedIn.

What happens when AI stops being a shiny tool and starts quietly reshaping how work, judgement and even identity function? In this episode of HR, Unfiltered, Dean and Sue sit down with futurist Matt O’Neill to explore the less comfortable bits of the AI conversation that many organisations are skirting around. Not whether AI can save time, draft emails or automate admin. But what happens when people start handing over too much of their thinking to it. Matt shares why he believes leaders often overestimate AI in the short term and underestimate it in the long term, why most organisations are still only seeing “pockets of excellence”, and why the real risk is not just process failure but a loss of human agency. The conversation moves from workflow redesign and shadow AI to leadership, learning, hiring, meaning at work and the growing need for what Matt calls digital flourishing. There is plenty here for HR and business leaders: How to redesign work rather than simply speed up old processes, Why fear has to be addressed before adoption can succeed, and Which deeply human qualities we must not outsource. This is a thoughtful, provocative and surprisingly human conversation about AI, work and what we must hold on to as everything else changes. Matt can be reached on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattone/overlay/about-this-profile/?lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_profile_view_base%3BZLFQGXBjRQ6%2FXdeQ4G9eFQ%3D%3D SOPEOPLE and HR, Unfiltered can be found at www.sopeople.co.uk

What happens when you invite a VP of Client / Customer Success to hold talk about HR? Turns out, quite a lot, and most of it grabs us in all the right ways. Rachel Rewerts has spent 15 years in Customer Success, a function that proves its value every quarter, in public, with numbers. In this episode, she draws an uncomfortable and energising parallel between CS and HR business partnering, two functions doing essentially the same job, with very different levels of accountability. We get into the bartender vs. personal trainer problem, why HR might avoid pushing into the bruise, what leading indicators CS uses that HR really should steal, and who gets away with the most narrative spin. (She said it, not us (but with affection)!) Blunt, warm, and genuinely useful. We think there's something for everyone who wants to learn more about business partnering.

What happens when a CEO with a psychology degree bans Friday meetings, challenges “bring your whole self to work”, and tells CPOs to get commercially dangerous? Find out in this episode, when Luke McKeever joins us for a blunt, intelligent and occasionally uncomfortable conversation about leadership, AI, and the future credibility of HR/People. We explore: Why authenticity at the top is harder than it sounds (and what integrity really looks like when you’re holding confidential change); The three drivers of human motivation (autonomy, competence and relatedness) and what they mean in practice; Why psychometric insight shouldn’t stop at hiring; The “reverse centaur” risk of AI, where humans become the compliance layer to machines; Why too many CPOs may still be struggling to hold their own at the commercial table; And what it actually takes to protect human value in an efficiency-obsessed world This is not a conversation about HR trends, it’s a conversation about power, agency, judgement and courage. If you care about the future of work, and the role HR will (or won’t) play in shaping it, this one matters. To find out more about the podcast overall, head to www.sopeople.co.uk. And you're keen to find out what Thomas International's innovative products can do for you and your organisation, you can do so at https://www.thomas.co/ Finally, you can get Luke on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/luke-mck-thomas/

In this episode of HR, Unfiltered, Dean Corbett and Sue O’Callaghan are joined by CFO Sam Park to explore what commercial HR really looks like from a finance perspective. Sam shares how great recruitment and thoughtful organisational design directly impact financial performance, why people issues show up clearly on the P&L, and what makes a people strategy credible at executive level. The conversation tackles common myths about CFOs, the dangers of process over pragmatism, and why headcount isn’t always the answer to performance gaps. Expect straight-talking insights, practical examples, and a candid look at what CEOs and CFOs really say about HR when it isn’t in the room. Essential listening for HR leaders who want genuine influence at the executive table. If you’re keen to connect with this People-loving CFO, you can do so on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samjpark?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=ios_app And as always, if you’d like to ask questions, comment, get in touch or get help from the team behind HR, Unfiltered, you can do so at www.sopeople.co.uk . Finally, don’t forget to check out our accompanying article here at https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/hrunfilteredpodcast/

In this episode, we sit down with Kirsty Baggs-Morgan, author of The HR Confidence Playbook, for an honest conversation about identity, confidence and what happens when your job becomes your entire sense of self. After being abruptly and unexpectedly let go from a senior HR role, Kirsty found herself at rock bottom. What followed wasn’t a polished reinvention story; it was a difficult, deeply personal journey back to confidence. The book she eventually wrote began as a simple coaching framework scribbled in a notebook years earlier, used quietly to rebuild both herself and others. We explore confidence in HR: Why it wobbles, how redundancy can shake your identity, and what it really takes to rebuild professional self-belief. Raw, reflective and practical, this one will resonate with any HR leader who’s ever quietly questioned their worth. You can get hold of Kirsty's book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.co.uk/HR-Confidence-Playbook-essential-respected/dp/B0FN7QQQFJ/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2V97W9V2RJJIK&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.tntDCnd_Ne13CgxXU5BCHWO8aaZgdmVO7aQAWxRID-twZuDkQJ9HtEszE5DE1FioB7qtO1hrraSAhPNnmUPVvw.Ff_oeyoBlfelw4GMBGupRRza3eDvfSnnffnsgBgAGBg&dib_tag=se&keywords=hr+confidence+playbook&qid=1771229457&sprefix=hr+confidence+playbook%2Caps%2C176&sr=8-1 And you can find Kirsty on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kirsty-baggs-morgan-hr-strategy-confidence-and-connection/

Restructures have become the default response to pressure, a kind of panic button! Markets wobble, cash tightens, leaders feel the heat... so the org chart gets redrawn. It looks decisive. It feels controllable. It rarely fixes the real problem. In this episode, Sue and Dean unpack why restructures so often fail to deliver. We explore why leaders start with boxes instead of outcomes. Why change is treated as an event, not a process. And why over-engineered roles quietly break people and performance. We name what happens when the human system is ignored (fear, loss, cynicism and disengagement.) We challenge the idea that structure equals strategy, and we explain why clarity beats complexity every time. This episode is for anyone who’s lived through a restructure and thought, “this isn’t working," and wants a better or different way. And for leaders who want results, not just moving deck chairs and causing pain.