Material IQ

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1. Material IQ Episode 005: “Specifying Fire Retardant Veneer Core Plywood for Interior Use (CFP 2026-1)” from Material IQ, opens in a new tab

   Jul 30, 202639 min

   This AIA-certified nano CEU is made possible by Columbia Forest Products . It focuses on how fire retardant veneer core plywood actually works — from the pressure-treatment process to the self-extinguishing char-layer reaction — and why third-party certification, not a single passed test report, is what separates products that perform on paper from products that perform in a fire. AIA’s Three Learning Objectives Distinguish between structural fire retardant treated wood (governed by IBC Section 2303.2) and decorative fire retardant treated wood products (governed by IBC Section 803), including the differing test durations and applications of each. Explain the difference between developmental testing and third-party certification for fire retardant wood products, and describe why third-party certification (including ongoing mill audits and annual retesting) provides architects and designers greater assurance of consistent life-safety performance. Identify the correct specification language for a Class A certified, third-party monitored fire retardant veneer core plywood product, and describe the flame spread index and smoke development index thresholds it must meet. Take the assessment below Course Details Course Number: CFP 2026-1 Course Provider: Columbia Forest Products with Material Intelligence AIA Learning Units: 0.5 LU|HSW Designation: Health, Safety, & Welfare Course Type/Session Type: Nano CEU – Distance Learning / On Demand About this episode In this episode of Material IQ, host Kenn Busch sits down with Alicia Powell of Columbia Forest Products to unpack the first domestically manufactured, third-party certified Class A fire retardant veneer core plywood. Powell, whose career spans both the structural and decorative sides of fire retardant wood, maps the two very different corners of the building code these products live in: IBC Section 2303.2, which governs structural framing members and demands pressure impregnation plus an ASTM E2768 burn test, and IBC Section 803, which governs decorative interior finishes like cabinets, millwork, and wall panels and requires the ASTM E84. Both share the same pass thresholds and the difference is time under flame, a distinction that still trips up specs written for the retired “E84 Extended.” The heart of the conversation is the gap between developmental testing (one production run, one lab report, maybe an engineering opinion) and genuine third-party certification: 18 passed tests, an ICC-ES listing, mill-floor monitoring, signed samples, annual retesting, and unannounced audits that can pull the listing. Powell also covers how individual poplar veneers are pressure treated before layup with Columbia’s soy-based, no-added-formaldehyde resin, why the finished panel reverts to Class C once a 1/42″ decorative face is applied while the core stays Class A, the roughly 15% weight penalty versus untreated poplar, the need to test your own adhesives and finishes on a small scale first, and the exact spec language architects should use so the product doesn’t get value-engineered out. For more information and samples, email Alicia at alicia.powell@cfpwood.com . Alicia Powell Kenn Busch Close-up view of the fire rated poplar veneer cores. Take the assessment for 0.5 CEUs You do not have a time limit on these questions. You must score 100% to earn .5 units. Material Intelligence will report directly to the AIA for credit. A certificate of completion will be emailed to participants allied with other associations. CEUs for Material IQ Episode 005: Specifying Fire Retardant Veneer Core Plywood for Interior Use (CFP 2026-1) URL This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. Name (Required) First Last Full name as it appears in AIA / IDCEC / ASID / IIDA membership records. Association (Required) AIA IDCEC ASID IIDA USGBC Other Other Association Association Member Number (Required) Email (Required) For certificate delivery and confirmation. Subscribe to Material Intelligence Your information will not be sold to third parties. You can unsubscribe anytime. Subscription is not required to earn CEUs. We share upcoming events and CEU opportunities via this list. Yes, subscribe me What is the main advantage of third-party certification over developmental testing alone? It verifies ongoing, consistent performance through mill audits and annual retesting, rather than relying on a single test result It eliminates the need for any building code compliance It is faster and less expensive for manufacturers It only applies to imported products How long must an interior (decorative) fire retardant product withstand flame exposure to pass the applicable surface burning test (ASTM E 84)? 30 minutes 5 minutes 20 minutes 10 minutes Why does a fire retardant treated panel “self-extinguish” when exposed to flame? A chemical reaction creates a char layer that stops the flame from advancing once the fuel source is removed It is coated with a fire-resistant paint The wood species is naturally fireproof It contains a built-in water reservoir Submit for Score Δ

2. Material IQ Episode 004: A History of Decorative Laminate from Material IQ, opens in a new tab

   Jul 20, 202641 min

   About this episode Formica Corporation’s brand historian Renee Hytry Derrington joins the Material IQ Podcast for a rare deep dive into the company’s century-long design legacy — from its 1913 origins as an electrical insulator to the birth of mid-century modern icons like the “Skylark” boomerang pattern designed by Brooks Stevens and Raymond Loewy’s postwar pastels. Along the way: the real story behind matte finishes, ColorCore, and how paper (not plastic) built an industry — plus an unexpected sustainability angle tying Formica Corporation’s history to forest health and carbon storage. A must-listen for anyone who wants the inside track on how one material shaped the American middle-class home. Read a transcript of this podcast episode The following podcast transcript was generated with Whisper AI and may contain errors. Transcript Kenn Busch in conversation with Renee Hytry Derrington, brand historian, Formica Corporation. [00:00] Renee Hytry Derrington: It’s wild to walk into a space and then see something that your team worked on. It just is wild. And you can name the year and remember all the work that went into it. I would say that we were very lucky to have a design legacy throughout the years that led to the teams that we have today. [00:28] Kenn Busch: A design legacy like no other. The Formica Corporation basically defined an entire category of materials: high-pressure laminates. Hi, my name is Kenn Busch. I’m the host of the Material IQ podcast. And that was Renee Hytry Derrington, who has been playing a role with the Formica Corporation since the 1980s — in one way or another, leading design, defining design, discussing design. And she has been a great influence on the way I approach my materials coverage in this industry. [01:02] Kenn Busch: So this episode is very cool because it digs into the long legacy and history of materials and their role in defining the middle class and creating entirely new ways to think about design. And I’m super excited about this. But first, who is Renee? [01:24] Renee Hytry Derrington: I’m the brand historian for Formica Corporation. But before that role, I’d spent more than four decades doing product design at some of the best manufacturers in the world with a historic background — Kohler Company and then Formica. At Formica, I worked for 36 years, ultimately leading the global design teams across five continents. [01:49] Renee Hytry Derrington: During this process, I became deeply engaged in our history, just because design and history make sense. And we had a lot of wonderful designers and architects that were curious about our history. So now at this point, after rolling off my design roles, I’m focusing on documenting and archiving our company history. [02:10] Renee Hytry Derrington: One of my most recent projects, which was a blast — I documented every single HPL design ever produced by the U.S. division of Formica Corporation, for a major donation of both samples and photography to the National Building Museum. So that’s kind of what I’m doing right now. [02:32] Renee Hytry Derrington: But how did I get here? I started out with a degree in architecture from the University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee. And I did go back and get my master’s in industrial design at The Ohio State University. I really do believe in education, which is great being a historian, because you can teach things. So with that, I serve on advisory boards at Ohio State as well as the University of Minnesota. Technical origins: a substitute for mica [02:57] Kenn Busch: Formica has some sort of technical origins, right? So where do we start talking about the beginnings — the beginnings of the high-pressure world, and Formica’s leadership in making it what it is today? [03:11] Renee Hytry Derrington: Well, ironically, the first order coming out of a rented Formica plant in 1913 was parts for the automotive industry. So go figure. I presented a paper at Ford last year for the International Business Archivists. And for me it was a great symbolic event, that here I was in the automotive industry, which was really the first customer of Formica. [03:38] Renee Hytry Derrington: It was an interesting company because it was started by two engineers that worked for Westinghouse. They had developed some technology. What they did is they were looking to create a laminated insulating material that was to be a substitute for the mineral mica. So it was actually a sort of stone-like product that was used for insulation. [04:04] Renee Hytry Derrington: Now, during that decade, there was a huge explosion of need for electronic equipment. So the demand for mica was more than the supply of that mineral. And it wasn’t consistent, and it was hard to get, and there were supply issues and all that kind of stuff. So our founders really had the opportunity to create kind of a wonder technical material that could be used in a lot of electrical-type appliances, as well as the automotive industry — timing gears, even shuttlecocks for making textiles. So it was a different kind of material to what we think about today. It really had a very interesting start on its way to becoming synonymous with modern durable surfacing. [04:57] Kenn Busch: This original electrical insulator — it was kraft paper saturated with phenolic resin? Or was there a version of this before that combination became the basis for HPL? [05:11] Renee Hytry Derrington: Fabric too. So it wasn’t always paper — it was also fabric. And we made shaped products also, so it wasn’t always flat. There was kind of a combination of things. [05:22] Renee Hytry Derrington: The earliest presses that did make flat material were very small. I think they were like two by three, versus now the big presses out in the world are four, five, six foot by eight, ten, twelve foot long. We can actually produce a larger sheet than that. It’s just that it’s harder to handle. But early days, the presses were small. We have photographs of these small presses that the guys were working on. And even the founders worked in the plant — that’s what’s so cool about the early days. The founders were actually working on all of that. Radios and the turn toward decorative [05:58] Renee Hytry Derrington: Besides the automotive industry, we also were part of the early innovation of radios — telecommunications. I don’t know if you remember those old standup radios, those big standup radios where people sat around and turned the dial and they were able to connect with the world for the first time. That was one of our other first customers. And that’s where the product became flat, because we were used as the insulating board in the back. And then the fronts were wood. [06:35] Kenn Busch: Oh, okay. [06:38] Renee Hytry Derrington: The expansion of the radios is kind of where we led into our decorative side, because that same radio manufacturer started to want to use our materials on the front. And they were asking us if we would have the ability to make that black or brown sheet look more like a wood, because walnut and wood was the material of choice back in the 1910s and ’20s. So it was the radio industry that sort of helped us get into decorative. [07:10] Kenn Busch: I don’t want to skip past the terminology here, or the company name. I think we kind of alluded to it, but literally the company name is because the material you were making was a substitute for… [07:22] Renee Hytry Derrington: For the mineral mica. [07:24] Kenn Busch: For mica, right. And so is that the honest version of where the brand name comes from? Because I actually got into a discussion with somebody a couple of months ago. They had a different take on it. I’m like, no, I’m pretty sure it’s because it was a substitute for mica. [07:43] Renee Hytry Derrington: It is absolutely that. [07:45] Kenn Busch: And it’s also become the quintessential reference point for high-pressure laminate, right? [07:51] Renee Hytry Derrington: It is. What HPL actually is [07:53] Kenn Busch: I headed you off a little bit ago. You were about to tell us why the printed design became an integral part of what we understand as Formica, as the radio industry was asking you for something to replace wood. [08:08] Renee Hytry Derrington: Yeah, exactly. Well, actually, I should probably step back and talk about the basic makeup of HPL — high-pressure laminate. Sometimes we do industry slang for it, right? HPL. But the laminate comes from the original process, where there were layers of either fabric or paper that were saturated in thermosetting resins and then pressed under heat and pressure. And with this, you have a very durable, flexible, wipe-clean surface. It’s a very strong surface. First, it was ideal for insulation materials. And then later, of course, we turned it into decorative. Radio City Music Hall and the cigarette-proof laminate [08:48] Kenn Busch: I want to ask you a little bit about the Radio City Music Hall thing. As you were saying that, it occurred to me: well, if you can make it in New York, you can make it everywhere. And you’re talking about Formica basically going global. But what was the material used? You said it was like a black lacquer. Where were they using it? And how did Formica execute it at that time? [09:10] Renee Hytry Derrington: Well, we sold the sheets and it was used for furniture. [09:12] Kenn Busch: For furniture, yeah. [09:13] Renee Hytry Derrington: Black lacquer furniture, and then for wall paneling. And it’s interesting because Radio City Hall was not only one of the earliest installations of that material, the insulating material — it also was the first time in a major installation where, again, a product developed by Jack Cochrane… [09:40] Kenn Busch: So a quick editorial note here. Jack Cochrane was Formica’s director of research in the 1920s and ’30s. He developed lighter-colored laminates in 1927. He introduced urea-based resins in the 1930s, which helped shift the company from electrical insulation into decorative surfacing. And as Renee is going to tell us, he was involved in some other very critical technical leaps forward for the company. [10:09] Renee Hytry Derrington: Again, a product developed by Jack Cochrane was a no-scorch construction laminate. Or back in those days, you would call them cigarette-proof. In 1931, he created a laminate that included a thin layer of metal foil in between those papers. And this created the surface that was effectively cigarette-proof. [10:34] Renee Hytry Derrington: And as you know, back in those days, smoking was very bold, right? Everybody smoked. There was a lot of smoking happening. And that was something that was always a category even wood and other materials had to deal with. So Radio City Hall was also one of the first installations of that cigarette-proof or no-scorch construction laminate. [10:56] Renee Hytry Derrington: And when you think about it, everybody thinks of Formica for mid-century modern kitchen countertops. Actually, our earliest forays were more into the commercial segment — either transportation design, like big ships, trains, early airplanes, as well as some significant architectural installations that kind of affiliated with it, like bus stations and transportation halls, that sort of thing. [11:28] Kenn Busch: Because of the durability? Because of the consistency? [11:32] Renee Hytry Derrington: Yes and yes. Durability. [11:35] Kenn Busch: And the value, I suppose, too, right? [11:37] Renee Hytry Derrington: Yeah. And also in those days, because of our printing innovations, we were able to offer a substitute for what was considered very expensive and potentially rare materials. Like with the wood grains. [11:52] Renee Hytry Derrington: Back to Jack in 1927 — he created a technique that he was able to patent to do light wood grains. Because imagine, if you’re using phenolic resins, the earlier ones were darker, like walnuts. But there was a trend for lighter wood grains in the latter part of the 1920s. So he also patented a technique for creating blonde wood grains, basically, that were very popular. So here the palette was opening up, that we could do both light to dark wood grains, substituting the very expensive sapeles and all of the different kinds of exotics out there, which was fantastic. So it was something that architects and designers were looking to use if they didn’t have access to those more expensive materials. Printing on paper [12:39] Kenn Busch: So the printing part — as that was introduced, you couldn’t print right on the brown or dark-colored kraft paper. You had to add a lighter-colored layer of paper to print on to carry some of these designs? How did this combination of materials evolve? [12:59] Renee Hytry Derrington: Well, the original wood grains for the radio industry were on the dark kraft paper. And so therefore the images were more muted and not as crisp like they are today. Because today we have the ability to print photorealistically, which is fantastic. Depending on the texture, it looks like a real veneer. But in those days it was more of a challenge. And this innovation to do it on a lighter opaque surface actually helped lighten and brighten the print and allow us the wider range. Why matte finishes exist [13:34] Kenn Busch: And the evolution of the textures of laminates. I think one of the great things I learned from you was that stipple finish that was introduced maybe in the ’50s or something like that. That wasn’t necessarily an aesthetic decision — it was a durability decision. Am I recalling this right, Renee? [13:55] Renee Hytry Derrington: I would say that in the early days, the laminate finish was more of a glossy finish. And in fact, when I joined the business, we used to have a buffing machine. So you’d press it in a matte finish and then you’d buff it. It was kind of an interesting technique. And you probably see that finish out there today. But it was more geared towards more glossy finishes. [14:18] Renee Hytry Derrington: But then the matte — we call it matte, not super matte — the matte finish with that slight little subtle texture to it, that was meant to be a more forgiving texture in general. And matte texture came about, I would say, in the late ’40s, after World War II ended. So that was an innovation. [14:43] Kenn Busch: And sometimes I speak in front of groups of students and I’m talking about that innovation. And I’m pretty sure I learned this from you, right? The idea that these little micro-pebbles, this little tiny stipple finish, was really to minimize the surface contact as people engaged with the material. And minimize — let’s say if you were going to scratch it, you only scratched just the very tops of those little stipples, instead of digging into what would be maybe a lacquer finish or a smooth, shiny finish. Am I remembering that right? [15:21] Renee Hytry Derrington: Yeah. And it hides it, too. Most matte laminates are, I don’t know, 15 to 18 degree gloss. And that’s kind of the average gloss level of what your average scratch or scuff that somebody would do, overusing the material. So when you have a high gloss, which is at 90, if you take a deep scratch through it, it’s going to go down to that 18 degree gloss and you’re going to see it — versus with a nice subtle matte finish. Melamine and the arrival of color [15:52] Renee Hytry Derrington: And there’s lots of technologies out there today. So I need to say that this is the melamine technology, which was really key to the laminate industry in total. Today there’s so many more technologies out there that are anti-scratch and anti-fingerprint that are fantastic, like our Fenix product. So I’m talking back in the day where melamine was used. [16:19] Renee Hytry Derrington: And actually, melamine wasn’t the original surface — not until about 1938. When melamine was available, that allowed us to create the brighter colors that you wanted to see. Before, it was more of a muddy resin in general. So really, the introduction of melamine gave us the color clarity, the heat resistance that was needed, and the durability. And that allowed us to do the wonderful light and dark patterns and much more brilliant colors than we had even before. [16:56] Renee Hytry Derrington: And that’s why, when you think about mid-century modern — besides the war happening right until ’45 — all the stuff that came after that, there was a lot of light aquas and pinks and all those lovely colors being used at the time. [17:09] Kenn Busch: So just to make sure we’re tracking on the terminology here: when you say melamine, you’re talking about melamine-saturated decor papers, right? Because the resin used in the core, the kraft papers, is a phenolic resin, which cures darker. But it’s more cost-effective. [17:28] Renee Hytry Derrington: Well, it has some benefits that melamine doesn’t. [17:31] Kenn Busch: Ooh, do tell. [17:31] Renee Hytry Derrington: I mean, the reason we have that core is that the phenolic resin is very flexible. So the sheets won’t break. Melamine has a tendency to be less flexible. [17:42] Kenn Busch: Brittle. [17:43] Renee Hytry Derrington: So by marrying the two different kinds of resins, we get the best of both worlds. We get a durable, clear topcoat that’s hard and scratch-resistant, but then you have a nice flexible sheet so that the fabricators and the millwork houses can easily work with them. We can roll them up in a hat box and ship them to your house directly, for instance. So all the resins have a specific purpose. Postwar design and the American middle class [18:08] Kenn Busch: So on this design journey — let me know if I’m kind of skipping over — I really want to get into talking about the colors and the designs that made the whole mid-century design movement pop. And Formica’s role in that, and really shaping what people thought of as the emergence of the American middle class, which was something brand new in the world. [18:33] Renee Hytry Derrington: Even though we were starting on that journey towards decorative laminates in the early ’30s, our main focus was more the commercial segment. Like I said, transportation and commercial buildings and that sort of thing. Our plant was utilized for the war effort, and we actually went back to our origins by creating gears and propellers for airplanes, and equipment for radios. So our plant totally shifted for World War II efforts. [19:05] Kenn Busch: So cool. But after the war? [19:08] Renee Hytry Derrington: We were able to step back into being decorative again. And one of the first things that we did was we worked with — he’s not as well known, unfortunately, but he was one of the early modernists — his name was Morris B. Sanders. We worked with him. He lived in New York City. He put up one of the first modern brownstones in the city. He created a design with us called Moonglow, that is patented. Moonglow, G-L-O. This was done in 1948. [19:38] Renee Hytry Derrington: So this is kind of the first partnership we had with an outside designer, to help us understand what the new aesthetics of the coming age were. He was the first one that we started working with. Then we had two very famous industrial designers that were using our material. Brooks Stevens, Luxwood, and Skylark [19:56] Renee Hytry Derrington: First, we worked with an industrial designer named Brooks Stevens. And me coming from the University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee, growing up in Wisconsin, I’m so proud to say that Brooks Stevens from Milwaukee was a customer. He was working with our laminates to design trains — commuter trains. So he was working on the Hiawatha train that went between Chicago, Milwaukee, to Minneapolis, and then out west. And with that, he was specifying our materials. [20:34] Renee Hytry Derrington: Because he understood our materials, we then asked him — because he had opinions. You know designers. They have opinions about things. Since he gave us his opinions, we said, can we hire you? And so he was our

3. Material IQ Episode 003: “Engineering a Better Panel with Climate-Positive Plywood” from Material IQ, opens in a new tab

   Feb 12, 202641 min

   About this episode In this episode of Material IQ , host Ken Busch sits down with Chris Tutuska of Funder (Genesis Products) and Meghan Bell of Garnica to explore a breakthrough in decorative panel technology: thermally fused laminate (TFL) pressed on a sustainably engineered poplar plywood core. The conversation dives into how Garnica’s meticulously cultivated, plantation-grown plywood—virtually void-free and carbon-neutral—solves historic challenges in using plywood in TFL applications while delivering superior strength, lighter weight, greater thickness accuracy, and improved tool life. Beyond performance, the three discuss the environmental and health benefits of responsible forestry, carbon sequestration, and alignment with initiatives such as the AIA Materials Pledge and LEED. Take the assessment below for CEUs EverPly+ plywood-based TFL with Funder’s Maple Linen design. Read a transcript of this podcast episode The following podcast transcript was generated with Whisper AI and may contain errors. Meghan Bell • 00:09 Architects and designers are so wonderfully placed to be able to instill change in the market. When you feel so good about something you’re more motivated to get up and go to work, you’re more motivated to get up and do the next thing, and I really do feel like we’re making a difference. Kenn Busch • 00:26 Hi, I’m Ken Bush. This is the Material IQ podcast. And if your goals include making a difference by using the most sustainable materials you can find without compromising design, durability, or breaking the budget, then I think you’re really going to enjoy this conversation. We’re here today to talk about a material that we all know, TFL, thermally fused laminate decorative panels and another material that we all know, plywood, coming together to create something new for the North American market. The company Funder, part of Genesis products, has launched a new TFL material with a plywood core instead of the typical particle board or sometimes MDF, a plywood core that is sustainably grown and sustainably produced by a company called Garnica. The you heard at the top of the podcast is Meghan Bell. She’s from Garnica and she talked a little bit about why it feels good to specify a material like this, why it helps make a difference. And we’re going to dig deep into that, but first of all, who is Meghan? Meghan Bell • 01:35 So I am the product specialist as well as I look after architect and design development for North America. I’ve dove into the trees and really the process of how the plywood’s made, doing research on the standards of our North American standards, as well as other standards, to understand why Kenn Busch • 01:57 Garnica is so superior. And from Genesis Funder, we have Chris Tytuska. Chris, tell us a little bit about you and a little bit about Genesis, if you would. Yeah, so Chris Tytuska, product director Chris Tutuska • 02:09 of the three Funder facilities here. The three Funder facilities are part of the larger 14 plants. The business that I’m particularly involved with is the kitchen and closet industry, and we call that the industrial side of our business. Within that space, we have a lot of capabilities, servicing the whole kind of cabinet and closet industries. From the lamination side, we have all surfaces covered. Roll lamination, we do low-faces, weight papers, 2D foil lamination, HPL lamination, and what I’m involved with TFL lamination. Kenn Busch • 02:48 And Genesis has a very elaborate door program as well. Laminated doors made out of 3DL or five piece wrapped doors made out of other types of lighter weight surfaces. Slab doors. Drawer boxes made with wrapped components or plywood. Even powder coated wood components. And an acoustic line, acoustic treatments made out of a sustainable material called Quel. and that’s Q-W-E-L. But all the laminate materials are available as coordinated matching or complimentary surfaces. So you can get your matches made by Genesis rather than as a designer or a manufacturer trying to hunt around and find all these different materials that will somehow look just right when they’re all used together. Chris Tutuska • 03:36 Right, so in our surface synergy collection, we do have, you know, we start out with the TFL patterns cores, solids and wood grains. And we match those. We feel that our surface synergy program is the most accurate in the industry for matching across the different surfaces that any manufacturer, cabinet, closet producer might want to use because we know that it’s a challenge and pain point for people that have had scar tissue using kind of generic industry cross reference sheets. And so we stand behind the accuracy of these matches across TFL, across the edge banding, across HPL, across 3D and 2D vinyls. And so, you know, if you, you know, are selecting something out of our program, you can kind of have a little bit of ease of mind that this is going to match. I don’t have to go through all of the development work to and frankly, it’s usually a hard push to get all of that and it takes time, time that a lot of people don’t have. And so that’s what we’re trying to address is taking some of that upfront work out. Kenn Busch • 04:50 And that’s a huge, that’s been a huge bugaboo the whole time I’ve been in the industry is how do I value engineer this, this project or this interior, you know, space without compromising my design integrity, you know, without, you know, you’ve got to versus over engineering or trying to use the same material on every possible surface, right? So you guys are that consultant, right? You’re the, you’re the, that, that source, that resource for, let’s say a curated matching program across so many different materials. And I’m trying to remember what your motto is. Is it, is it, there’s nothing we can’t do or is it Chris Tutuska • 05:26 resistance is futile? Maybe a little bit of both. So all of these components and materials we’ve been Kenn Busch • 05:34 been talking about, you know, these are laminates and overlays and substrates that are available out in the market that Genesis uses to create value added components for commercial and residential interior design. But the TFL, the funder TFL panels are actually produced in-house. Is that right, Chris? Chris Tutuska • 05:51 Yeah. And we produce TFL on any number of core substrates. That could be particle board. That could be MDF. That could be plywood. of those even delve into some odd board sizes and then some also some some makeups, whether that’s a moisture resistant, fire resistant, FSC certified, ULEF, you name it. You know, there’s a there’s a whole host of cores that we use to meet certain product and project specifications. Kenn Busch • 06:23 You said plywood under TFL? Yes. What? Yep. Tell us why you’re doing that. Chris Tutuska • 06:31 So plywood, especially in the cabinet industry, a lot of the manufacturers use it as a lever to have an upcharge that is basically just by switching out the core, they can demand a higher price. The consumer in America knows that that is probably a higher quality product that has better resistance to moisture. definitely stronger than when it comes to MOE and MOR as far as being able to hold more weight. And even with doing that, it’s a lighter weight product. So overall, it’s a step up in quality and I think it’s been communicated that’s a step up in craftsmanship. So it allows them to charge Kenn Busch • 07:19 a higher price for it. So plywood is an unusual material for TFL, at least in my experience? Is this new to the market overall? Chris Tutuska • 07:31 Yeah, I’ll address why it’s been kind of a challenge in previous versions. And so previous iterations of plywood used in the TFL application. For one reason or the other, there’s been some voids and some whether it splices, whether it’s actually voids from you know, knots in the actual slicing veneers that make up the plywood platform. Those are a problem if you don’t have consistency within the plywood platform, because if you can think about having a core that is experiencing a lot of pressure in a short amount of time, if there’s nothing pushing back and there’s a void in the core, that plate cannot touch and cure the melamine treated paper to the substrate. Kenn Busch • 08:20 What do these voids mean in the finished panel? Chris Tutuska • 08:23 People that buy our products, they don’t want to see a big kind of milky white spot anywhere from three inches to four inches wide. What we’ve developed with Guernica, because of their consistency of their plywood platform and they’re basically virtually void free core. We have a very low scrap rate. We have a material thickness accuracy, probably nothing that I’ve ever seen in plywood. And so, yeah, it’s just, and we can get into more of the details on what that means to the end user, the manufacturer. But yeah, that’s exactly why this product addresses some of those previous problems with plywood previous attempts to launch it in the market. Kenn Busch • 09:14 Meghan, you’ve got some expertise in this plywood that we’re talking about, right? – I do. – I’ve been really amazed to hear how much has gone into engineering this perfect substrate that Funder is now using in their TFL. Please give us some history of Garnica and how this perfect plywood core came to be. Meghan Bell • 09:36 Garnica is a Spanish company out of La Crona La Rioja. It all starts really at the nursery in the mother tree. So each clone is taken from the mother tree by a clipping, it’s planted in the earth by the mother tree. It grows for one to two years. And then they do a secondary clipping where they basically take down the tree. They put it into an irrigation trench essentially where it can re-root and then it’s moved over into the plantation. Now in the plantation, it grows for 12 to 15 years and every one to two years, they go through an aggressive pruning where they trim the branches up as far as is healthy for the tree. Now this helps the tree grow very straight, very tall and very fast. It also allows for those growth rings to grow around the scars of the initial trimmings. And then that gives clear veneers up incredible lengths of that tree. So when you’re doing the rotary cutting process, you’re starting at the outside, gets turned into a cylinder, and then it’s like an unraveling kind of like paper towel. So when that unraveling starts, you have clear veneers until you see those scars. Now those scars are quite small because we’re just trimming limbs, little limbs, and it’s every one to two years, they don’t have enough time to grow that large. When it comes to a lot of plywood manufacturers, many of them source third trees from the wild. So what happens there is there’s no control, right? There’s no control over the way that tree grows and so it can grow in all different directions as well as having large limbs and those would contribute to voids within the core. Kenn Busch • 11:19 So I understand Garinika started cloning poplar trees right around World War II. Tell us more about these clones. Meghan Bell • 11:28 We have about 230 clones available. around 10 clones are the most commonly used. In 2025, we used wood from 32 different popular clones. Kenn Busch • 11:40 When you say clone, this is, is it the same as the mother tree you mentioned earlier? So tell us a little bit about the family tree of your trees. Meghan Bell • 11:52 Well, the trees actually, when you go to Benios 1 and you go to the plantation and you see the nursery, the mother tree is actually like growing in all different directions. And that’s ’cause we’ve taken lots of clippings and she’s grown and she’s grown. And there’s multiple different mother trees in the line. And then down the line are each of her clones. So the mother tree, there’s probably many different mother trees. And then the clones are clipped off of those and put in the ground next to them. And that’s how they’re able to root. Kenn Busch • 12:24 Oh, it’s so nice you keep the families together. Are there certain traits that are passed along from these different mother trees to the generations that follow? Meghan Bell • 12:40 They try to keep the same genes in the way that they grow straight, they grow tall, they grow fast, but what’s different is they change them for droughts, they change them for pests, and they change them for like growing well in an area. So they’re color coded after they’re taken from the nursery and then those color coding’s determine which plantation they go to. Kenn Busch • 13:09 And then at what age are they harvested and what is the process for creating this famous plywood that funder is so in love with? Meghan Bell • 13:19 Mm-hmm, so the trees are brought from the plantation to the log yard. there, they’re go through like a metal detector because any sort of small nail or anything can ruin the lathe knife. So they go through the metal detector, then they’re debarked and then they go into the rotary lathe. So one knife strips the tree into a perfect cylinder. The second knife is much sharper and gives the veneers. The veneers that come off are pristine. I’ve been there. I’ve seen it. It’s, it is gorgeous to look at. You wouldn’t believe that. There were any limbs in the first place. Then they go through. Now we can peel at the four by eight, as well as the eight by four, the five by 10 as well as the 10 by five, because we have our own trees and we’re able to cut them into certain lengths. And that allows for no splicing within the core. So it’s whole piece of near then all the way through, which then talks to what Chris was talking about, about those splicings causing issues when you are pressing a TFL. Kenn Busch • 14:25 So how thick are these slices? I mean, walk us through just sort of a 101 of how plywood is made from the veneer slices. Meghan Bell • 14:33 The veneer slices, it’s kind of like an unraveling of paper towels. So essentially it goes through the lathe and the knife draws it out and it’s like unraveling that paper towel. So they’re quite thin. And then those veneers are then stacked at right angles to each other. So the long grain is called long grain, and then there’s a cross grain. Now we have the best veneers on the cross grain, which is right underneath the surface. And that allows us to be able to give exceptional screw holding capabilities, um, as well as a pristine surface for that TFL or any sort of laminate or wood veneer on top. Kenn Busch • 15:21 So the plywood that the funder is using is your pop poplar core. And are these the same poplar trees we think of here in North America? Or is this a different European poplar is a different animal, so to speak? Meghan Bell • 15:37 It is a different animal because we have very stringent rules on how they grow and how they’re taken care of. So the trimming of the tree, all the different things, those contribute to the way that that tree grows and gives you the pristine veneers that we’re able to offer. Those aren’t going to be able to be offered from any of the popular trees in North America because we source Kenn Busch • 16:01 from the wild. How long does it take for these popular trees to mature? So anywhere from 12 to Meghan Bell • 16:10 to 15 years, we generally harvest at 20 centimeters in diameter. Kenn Busch • 16:18 So you let it get big enough, you don’t like, you don’t, you don’t come forward on its 15th birthday or something like that? Meghan Bell • 16:25 No, and we do have very stringent rules for the environment as well. So we use, because poplar is a species that does not need a canopy and we are consistently replanting. We have a clear cutting process, but there are certain times of the year that you can’t clear cut in certain areas. For example, the European mink is an endangered species. So when they’re going through their reproduction stage, we have very stringent rules on what times of the year we can pull and what time of the year we can’t insert in areas. Kenn Busch • 17:00 So the title we were playing with for this conversation is TFL on engineered plywood AI that the AI a materials pledge in action. Meghan Bell • 17:12 So the ESG is. Kenn Busch • 17:14 Mm hmm. Yes. Meghan Bell • 17:15 Yes. When it comes to Gernika, Gernika has the trees. Also the plywood panels themselves sequester carbon. There’s 22 tons of carbon sequestered for every hectare every year. popular plywood panel sequesters 700 meters cubed over the course of its life of CO2. We are a carbon net positive product. We are carbon net positive as a company and so that addresses any social governance when it comes to Kenn Busch • 17:46 environment. And that’s amazing. But just to take a quick glossary break here, carbon negative and climate positive basically mean any product or process that stores more carbon than is released in its production and use. And carbon net positive is the same thing, I guess, right? We’ve got to be careful about this terminology. Make sure we get everything just right. Meghan Bell • 18:10 Correct. So we do that by using as much of the tree as humanly possible and ideally all of the tree. So any sort of limbs or leaf foliage that falls off the tree is then in the earth and it gives kind of like a fertilizer for the trees to grow. Then we also have the trimmings and the barking that can go towards energy in the plant or like turned into a material that can be used for MDF or HDF. And then actually the very center of the log that’s in the rotary cutting process, like when you unravel your paper towel, you have that tube at the end. That is used as fence posts all over Spain and France. Kenn Busch • 18:56 So you make use of every fiber almost? Meghan Bell • 19:01 As much as we possibly can, yes, and that helps to negate the carbon footprint. Kenn Busch • 19:07 And the great thing about trees and carbon capture is the captured carbon stays captured, stays sequestered, until that would rot or burns, right? So theoretically decades, maybe hundreds of years. Meghan Bell • 19:23 Exactly. So by using it in buildings and things like that, you’re able to lower the buildings carbon footprint. Kenn Busch • 19:32 Chris, was that a goal when you guys were looking for this new substrate for your Everply Plus? Chris Tutuska • 19:40 It was an enhancement that is definitely something that we can sell on. I think it’s important to some customers in certain spaces, whether that’s an architect that’s seeking a certain certification or a green level for their building or their project or someone that needs points to achieve that. Kenn Busch • 20:03 In addition to all of the other benefits that this allows you guys to offer your customers, right? Lighter weight, better performance. Take through these one more time for me if you would, just because I think it’s a really powerful story. Right. I think so some of the challenges that Chris Tutuska • 20:22 have been addressed and we talked about them at a high level earlier, but one of the main things is thickness accuracy. In years past, with previous iterations of plywood, when you think about manufacturers that have, whether it’s a CNC machines, whether it’s boring operations, whether it’s operations that create different thicknesses and channels. When you have a material that was more variable than I talked about in previous versions of plywood, it throws havoc into widths, depths, and everything like that. So some manufacturers were hesitant to use these because a lot of times they would have to change programs and do all of that. With this material, But we’re claiming a thickness accuracy of plus or minus five thousands, which is almost close to particle board and MDF as far as a composite panel. So in essence, you’re telling the manufacturer that you don’t have to change programs, that you don’t have to measure before it gets on the machine, kind of breaking down that barrier. From the lightweight aspect, I mean, that’s always a positive when speaking anything p

4. Material IQ Episode 002: “Design: Resilient Flooring in North America” from Material IQ, opens in a new tab

   Jan 26, 20261 hr 5 min

   Featuring special guests Peter Garlington, Interprint, Inc., and Darius Helm, Floor Focus Magazine In this episode of the Material IQ Podcast , host Kenn Busch talks with Floor Focus editor Darius Helm and Peter Garlington, Design Director at Interprint Inc. , for a deep dive into the art and science of flooring design in North America. Peter reveals the meticulous process behind creating realistic wood and material designs for resilient flooring, from hand-selecting lumber boards to experimenting with concrete pours and terrazzo compositions. The conversation explores why North American-sourced designs matter in a market dominated by overseas production, touching on everything from regional aesthetic preferences and the technical challenges of print quality to the storytelling that makes designs resonate with consumers. Peter challenges conventional trend-following, advocating instead for quality materials and authentic design development that respects both the craft and the diverse tastes across the continent. Whether you’re curious about why oak dominates the flooring market or how designers create wood chip terrazzo, this episode offers a fascinating look at the intersection of artistry, manufacturing, and market dynamics in the flooring industry. Read a transcript of this podcast episode The following podcast transcript was generated with Whisper AI and may contain errors. Darius • 00:08 I never have enough of a chance to speak about design. I write about it a lot, I try and cover all the trends and everything, but to speak to folks who are right in the middle of it, who know a whole lot, who can educate me, who can orient me, that’s valuable. And so I really appreciate the opportunity to learn more about the design process and all the technical elements involved. Kenn • 00:29 Darius, my friend, you’ve come to the right place. This is the Material IQ podcast. I’m Ken Busch, and today we’re going to be talking about design, flooring design, in North America, specifically resilient flooring design, and why it’s so important for North American producers to source their designs from North American producers. Darius is the editor of one of the top magazines in the flooring market, floor focus, and he and I are indeed friends. But I’ll let him take it from here. Darius • 01:04 Well, I got into the flooring industry at Floor Focus in 1999. And from the beginning, I came from doing travel writing. From the beginning, I was interested. It’s rich, it’s multifaceted, and that appeals to me. And there’s so many elements. There’s design, there’s technology, there’s innovation. There’s sustainability. It’s international. So as a reporter on the industry, there’s always something to keep me engaged. And if you’re any kind of reporter, you tend to be curious by nature. And that’s my feeling. You wanna ask questions, get answers, and that’s certainly true of me. Kenn • 01:41 And here to satisfy Darius’s curiosities is Peter Garlington from Interprint Inc. Interprint Inc. is the North American division of a global supplier of designs for decorative surfaces, whether it’s flooring or furniture materials, architectural millwork. Interprint is one of the leaders on the planet of creating and marketing these designs to flooring producers and of course, other types of materials producers. Peter has been traversing the planet for decades now, hunting the cool stuff, figuring out why it’s cool, bringing these concepts back to his secret laboratory. I guess it’s not that secret. And turning them into marketable, sellable designs for these different categories of materials. Peter, tell us a little bit about yourself. Peter • 02:37 Sure. I guess I’ve been the design director here for North America the past 15 years. I’ve been with Interprint for 20. My background before that was design-build furniture studio. I came up in the ’80s and ’90s in the contemporary American craft movement. But what I brought to Interprint was my studio. So we do all of our own development in-house from raw board or raw material through to finished. So the studio is materials and process heavy, where we like to explore. We, my team mostly comes from a fine arts background. So we have that kind of mentality and approach when it comes to design and material processes. Kenn • 03:36 And I’ve been to your studio, it’s been a few years, but there’s a big focus for Interprint and for this industry as a whole on wood designs. Is that correct still, Peter? Peter • 03:47 Wood is what feeds the machine, sure. We have a deeper interest in other material sensibilities. I think as an industry and as a whole for what we supply the visuals for, we range from the panel to the high pressure to the flooring side. So we have a very holistic approach to our materials and material selection. What traditionally was the realm of the HPL, the high pressure laminate with abstracts and graphic images, kind of opens up for flooring when we moved from residential to commercial, providing images for the thermal plastic side. Residential laminate flooring, the paper product that we print, was traditionally held to the residential market, which was much more focused on wood plank, flooring looks, the occasional tile, ceramic or stone look for, but that was the minority of the design development. Most of it was wood, wood plank, wood visual. Like I said, with moving into commercial flooring with LVT and Resilient, it gives us the opportunity to look at abstract ideas in flooring, whether those are concretes or oxidized metals or terrazos, things like that. So it’s been a little bit of a shift in the past several years as we get into the thermoplastics, which is nice. Kenn • 05:31 And so in your studio, what I observed you guys doing is kind of prepping these real world material samples for scanning so that they can become printed decorers for furniture or laminate surfaces. There’s an incredible amount of attention to detail there. And Peter, I also know you as a foodie, which also kind of has the same sort of level of discernment and refinement when it comes to just the tiny nuances that other people might not, never pick up on. Peter • 06:02 Yeah, I would say I’m quite a process junkie. You know, it’s the thing that interests me about food is usually the process used in making. the technique or uniqueness of it, things like that. So process, process, process. Kenn • 06:22 I was afraid you’re gonna say processed food. What do you say that? That’s the antithesis of what we’re here to talk about. So what we are here to talk about though is really flooring designs for the American market developed here in America, which is what InterPrint is really heavily involved in. Why is this an important topic right now? Peter • 06:48 Well, I mean, I guess generally speaking, it’s always been an interest of ours. We’ve always used both kind of emerging artists as well as kind of American heritage brands as inspiration for some of the work that we do. We focus a lot on North America here at Interprint because we think it’s a big space. You know, it’s a big territory on the map. We, you know, if you have this conversation with our European colleagues, you know, and ask them what the trend is for Europe, you’ll get an argument that will say, you know, like, oh, we can’t answer a question like that. You know, there’s differences between the North and South of Germany. What Italy wants isn’t what Spain wants. and the Nordic countries are doing something completely different as well. So there is no single trend for the European market. And then I think to them and say, “Now take the American map and overlay that.” And you’ll realize we have the same thing, that there isn’t a single trend for the North American market. But you have regionalities that do things for particular reasons or have a vested history in a material or a species or a look or feel. You know, tile is popular in Florida because it’s cool. You know, hardwood is popular in the Northeast because it’s warm. You know, you don’t wanna come home from a day at the beach and drag your sandy feet across a hardwood floor and you don’t wanna come home in the middle of winter from skiing and lay down on a cool tile floor. So, you know, there’s a little bit of regionality and things like that, but you know, I think it’s a bigger, bigger story about the diversity of culture in North America and applying any single design aesthetic that’s universal doesn’t really make sense. Kenn • 08:54 So there’s no such thing as the global oak flooring design that everybody’s going to love no matter what part of the world they’re in or what part of the continent they’re in. Peter • 09:04 I think there are some universals out there You know our elements within a design that that can work globally, you know but You know, I know I don’t think that there’s any singular design that Unless you’re a Panto Kenn • 09:24 Darius from your perspective, you know, have you noticed over the years? any sort of whatever a need for more focus on localized designs attention to localized trends when we’re talking about North America? Darius • 09:42 Yeah, we see that a lot. I mean, one of the interesting things is hard work, for instance, has really been a little better at get supplying regional designs like Texas. They like their rustics, you know, North East is somewhat traditional, and then, you know, out West more, or maybe a clean minimal coastal. So we’ve seen that a lot in woods, but I wonder about that in terms of other types of hard surface flooring. I wonder if Peter thinks that we’ve been using too broad a brush and is there a lot more room to serve people’s regional aesthetic needs than is currently in the market now? And I guess that’s mostly a regional, Peter • 10:30 residential discussion, I’m not sure. Yeah, you know, I think that we run into a couple different things. There’s kind of the commodity side of things where everybody wants to get some real estate in the big box stores so that waters down the the regionality a little bit. You know, I think you’ll get certainly specifications. You know, the coastals are for sure a little bit more sophisticated than the middles. I think certain species have taken dominance. Oak is just, it’s easy. It’s high tanning content. It takes a lot of finishes. There’s a range of raw material from rustic to elegant. It has a nice open pore structure that allows more realistic interpretations of visuals to be prominent. But the problem there is people get lazy about wanting another oak and another oak and another oak. And it’s like, every so often you gotta do something else. And they may not be as easy with plates or the visual, but in the end, the end user really wants a variety, a choice out there. Kenn • 11:50 Peter, what role does standing and finishing play as you are prepping these wood species to be scanned and turned into designs for flooring. Peter • 12:01 You know, we shy away from using a store-bought stain, right, to us, min wax is a pigment in solution used to homogenize the visual look. And what we want in a flooring set is some board-to-board variation. So by using a reactive stain that’s chemistry reacting with the tannin and the oak, the tannin of any individual tree is going to be different. So the boards are gonna color slightly differently from each other. So they’ll be of the same look, but have board to board variation, where if we took the same set of boards and just coated them with minwax, they’d all look exactly, they’d have the same tonal range. It would be a very flat floor. So I think that you definitely have chemistry going on in trees and from tree to tree that’s different so depending on the finishing that you’re using you can get variation and finish. You know a tree grown by itself on a windy uphill will have lean or could potentially have grain character that was unique to that tree. of those effects that you see in maple, like a curly maple or a bird’s eye maple, is effective conditions of growing. That curl in the maple is compression on one side where the tree’s constantly being leaned into and the grain on that one side is stacking up and creating curl. So, yeah, any of that crossfire or curl in a board. It could be environmental conditions, but how do you know so much? Kenn • 13:52 So this dear listener is one of the joys and challenges of inviting a fellow journalist to participate in these podcasts. So I’m going to relinquish control at least partially because I’m learning a lot by just letting these two guys riff. So where were we? Oh, right. Darius • 14:12 How do you know so much? I mean, this detail, talking about wood, it’s blowing my mind. I mean, I could listen to this forever, but how do you know this much? And also, part two of that, now I’m really interested to see how you develop a design from these woods, you know, what the process is, but you know, what’s your background in terms of all this wood knowledge? Peter • 14:34 This is, you know, 40 years of hand selecting lumber, knowing your material, working with it, understanding tension within a board, you know, more times than I care. I’ve spent good money on on a board that looks great. And as I start to mill it, it starts to warp or bow or twist because there’s an internal tension that’s been baked in in the kiln or, or, you know, reactive from it’s it’s growing conditions. So yeah, we’re geeky. Like I said, we’re very process driven here. So we’re some wood geeks. You have to be right. You have to be. Sure. I mean, it keeps things entertaining. I mean, and we we tend to buy, you know, from lumberyards we know. And we’ve like my years of building for clients and individuals, I’ve gone all over the country sourcing materials. When the rustic stuff was the hot thing, we were down sourcing reclaimed barn material or reclaimed housing material. We’re interested in architecture, so we’re interested in adaptive reuse of materials or systems. So we’re kind of constantly deep diving. We’re happy when we’re learning, I guess. So like that’s, you know, if we get a new project that brings in a new material or a new medium, we dive right in and get our hands dirty. Kenn • 16:16 There was a New Yorker cartoon a few years back that basically showed barns for as far as you could see into the horizon and the line was something like, demand for barn board has led to an explosion in the building of barns. Peter • 16:33 Yeah, yeah, no, I was pretty sure at the height of that that there were fields in Pennsylvania where they just had wall sides that they were nailing boards on one week and then peeling them off the next and then just renailing and then peeling like, it was just like, you know. If everybody that wants a NASCAR themed man cave in their basement is buying real reclaimed barn wood. Like the shakers just didn’t build enough barns. (laughs) Kenn • 17:01 So, and this is why we’ve developed all these different materials to honor the look of wood, but don’t have to actually be wood, which brings us to, really, we’re gonna be focusing on resilient flooring here. And, you know, it’s a growing market. There are so many different varieties of what we can call resilient flooring areas. Can you just give us a snapshot What is resilient flooring and why is it hot? Darius • 17:28 Right, so coming into about 2013, it was sheet goods, some VCT and flexible LVT, residential and commercially. 2013, Pete Dorsche with US Floors is in China and he sees a decking product and he sees how this can be a flooring. And he creates the rigid core concept which was originally WPC. And then, I mean, I have a couple of stats. It’s really staggering how much that has transformed the market entirely. The two things that drove it mostly were the click system. Now, Flexible LBT already had a click system and I’ve installed the floor here using it. I thought it was great, but apparently, the rigid click system is an easier install and then the marketing message of the waterproof flooring. And that just combined with also fantastic pricing and it just transformed the market. In 2012, resilient flooring was $1.7 billion, 10% of flooring market share. 2024, it’s $7.5 billion with a 21% market share. It’s pretty much bigger than carpet now and forever carpet was the biggest flooring category. So in 2014, LBT, just LBT was about 850 million. Now it’s about 6.3 billion. And 3.8 of that is rigid flooring. And rigid flooring is almost entirely a residential product. In fact, I’d be interested to hear if it’s getting much traction commercially at all. But I think performance issues or performance weariness and the stakes are higher in the commercial market, you know. So people, you know, contractor, specifiers are going to be more careful about using something like that the same way they don’t use real wood that much. So we haven’t seen a gain much traction there, but it is stunning. And so there’s WPC and SPC and then some other formulations they tried out like using magnesium oxide in the core and stuff like that. We don’t see that much of that anymore, but SPC was the cheaper stripped down version kind of and it took over the market. It still accounts for the bulk of rigid LBT, but there were some problems with quality coming out of China thinner boards, poor materials, poor fillers and that caused a little wave of failures and that has actually been good for this category because it’s boosted WPC It’s also boosted laminate and it sort of pushed the market up just a little bit. And so in the long run, that might do something in terms of the commoditization of SPC. And of course, the vast majority of this is from Asia. And in Asia, still the vast majority is from China. But that’s changing a little bit. And then we have some U.S. production that’s over the last 10 years. A lot of folks, some American firms, some Asian firms have invested in built factories here. And but it only accounts for maybe 15% of U.S. consumption. And I’m talking really on the LVT or rigid LVT side here. With all of the investment in the US, it’s still a very small portion of what’s consumed here. Peter • 21:02 Yeah, we see that for sure. Kenn • 21:05 So let’s take a quick glossary break here. I’m getting a little bit behind on the terminology. WPC is wood plastic composite flooring. SPC is stone plastic composite flooring. LVT is, of course, a luxury vinyl tile. Um, Darius, bring us up to speed on this terminology if you would. Darius • 21:28 Um, okay. The problem is that the acronyms have changed their, their meanings a little bit. Right. I think WPC has, yeah, I don’t know how much WPC really uses the wood dust as opposed to just a foamed core as opposed to that solid vinyl core. Um, but yeah, the original, um, WPC was, was wood dust. And I don’t know if Shaw still makes it like that. Shaw bought US floors not long after they came out with this great invention. But now they are often called WPC waterproof. Using the W for waterproof. But it’s the higher end thicker, beefier product. And SBC Center, there are some other varieties out there. people were experimenting a lot that’s quieted down a little bit. And then we also have some PVC-free options that are being developed in that sort of laminate to LVT arena in general, you know, some very cool hybrids. And some are less successful, but people have been innovating. Kenn • 22:43 But the basic properties and LVT of course is luxury vinyl tile, but it’s but it’s planks mostly. Anyway, just a skinny tile, skinny, skinny long tiles, right? But the, but the, what, what, what are the universal properties that, that make the, all these belong under the resilient flooring umbrella? Darius • 23:06 Right. It’s, it’s polymer base. It’s got a polymer core, you know, generally speaking, a PVC core. And it also will have a PVC cap on it with the film on top of that. So I mean, I think it’s the fact that it’s a polymer product one way or another. There have been some other thin

5. Material IQ Episode 001: “The Squeeze” from Material IQ, opens in a new tab

   Nov 10, 202550 min

   This episode of the Material IQ Podcast , host Kenn Busch dives into “ The Squeeze ” — that critical stage in every project when interior budgets get tight and material choices are under pressure. Joined by Jessica Calabrese of Parksite Atlantic Plywood and Greg O’Connell of SSI North America, the discussion explores how 2D and 3D laminates (2DL and 3DL) can help designers and specifiers balance aesthetics, performance, and cost when other materials fall short. From project bidding challenges and specification “doom loops” to the importance of early collaboration between designers, millworkers, and suppliers, this conversation offers practical insights into avoiding costly material substitutions and achieving cohesive, high-performing interiors. Every episode of the Material IQ podcast explores in detail the materiality of the built environment: innovation, inspiration, and case studies from leading architects, designers, suppliers, and manufacturers with an emphasis on climate-positive outcomes in commercial and residential design. Read a transcript of this podcast episode The following podcast transcript was generated with Whisper AI and may contain errors. Jessica 00:09 – 00:26 I, you know, I call it the squeeze. You know, interiors is always the thing that gets cut at the very end when, you know, concrete has gone over budget and there’s no more room for change orders or, you know, I do. I call it the squeeze. Kenn 00:27 – 00:49 The squeeze. I love this. point in every project where the gaze turns to the interior. We find out that the budgets aren’t what we would hope they’d be for all the finishing touches. Maybe we found out some of the vendors we chose aren’t capable of executing the vision of the design team. So it’s the squeeze. And it’s also. Jessica 00:49 – 00:53 It is a number one frustration for interior designers. Kenn 00:54 – 02:40 So let’s see if we can’t do something about that. I’m Ken Busch, your host for this episode of the Material IQ Podcast. And today we’re going to talk about a couple of materials, 2DL and 3DL, that sit right in the middle of the squeeze. The squeeze being material substitutions that happen because of budget design or performance reasons or sometimes the capabilities of your mill workers or cabinet chops. 2DL and 3DL, they can be squeezed in when other materials don’t meet budget requirements. requirements or they can be squeezed out if your suppliers don’t know how to work with these specialized materials. Let’s do a little bit of housekeeping on the terminology that you’re going to hear today. 2DL is two-dimensional laminates, 3DL is three-dimensional laminates. You can hear about PVC and a PVC alternative called PET and that’s polyethylene terephthalate. You can hear TFL, which means thermally fused laminate, known in the past as melamine boards or TFM panels. You can hear the term haptics, which is another way to describe our response to touch and texture. You can hear the term film, which really covers a broad category of decorative laminates and overlays. And you can hear FF and E, which means furniture fixtures in equipment. I’ve heard that term used in the hospitality specifications world, but it does apply to other project categories. And by the way, you can find out a lot more about all of these terms on materialintelligence.com in the material guides area. So it’s time to introduce our expert guests. First up, you’ve already heard from my old friend Jessica Calabrese. Sorry, am I pronouncing this wrong for decades? Jessica 02:41 – 02:42 How did you say it? Kenn 02:43 – 02:43 Calabrese. Jessica 02:44 – 02:48 That’s the Italian pronunciation. So it’s technically correct. Kenn 02:48 – 02:48 Okay. Jessica 02:49 – 03:04 Jessica Calabrese, I’m with Parkside Atlantic Plywood and I manage the Commercial Specifications Division primarily focused on interiors for our Kenn 03:04 – 03:13 Surfaces Business Unit. And just briefly, what are the challenges that you are hoping to address with a conversation like we’re having today? I think it’s Jessica 03:13 – 03:29 great to open up the dialogue to just talk about how do we bring more awareness into specification efforts and material functionality and application use. I think that’s an important aspect of educating our A&D folks out there. Kenn 03:30 – 03:36 Super. Now, Greg, your turn. Who the heck is Greg O’Connell? If I’m am I pronouncing that right, O’Connell? Greg 03:37 – 04:24 Yeah, you nailed it. It’s actually George. Greg O’Connell, sales manager for SSI North America. We are a decorative services supplier to North America with different types of materials, 2D and 3D films. And then we also offer edge treatments through MKT North America. The education is key. The more that people know, the more confident they are. Because I don’t want to know that there are people in the market that don’t know what to do with our stuff. So it gets branded in a certain way or things get isolated because of the fear of being unknown. Kenn 04:25 – 05:46 Well, and what I think is going on here is that, you know, you hear things in the field. I mean, you know so much about your mix of materials and your competitive materials. And then you see how people are actually using them. And that inspires you as well. I think that’s really what kicked off this whole idea. Greg had shared an example with me of a customer that had been doing an incredible job with the 2D materials and the conversation Greg had, the answers he was able to give the customer and the observations the customer shared with Greg were something that should not have been just a one-on-one conversation. They should have been something that we could broadcast to the entire industry. And then I talked to Jessica after that And she’s like, you know, my teams and a frig, you know, correct me if I’m wrong, Jessica, but you know, both your OEM sales teams and your spec teams are like, you know, we’re not really sure how to talk about some of this or how to recommend where it’s used. And then you brought up Jessica, the millwork, you know, the importance of connecting with the millwork houses. And that just brought me right back to Greg’s. And so there’s this beautiful sort of self feeding loop here where I think there’s a A conversation between you two guys that could be very, very helpful to the industry. So Greg, give us the 30,000 foot view of the materials that SSI offers. Greg 05:47 – 06:43 We have really a few primary brains. We lead with our primary brand from Klockner, Pentaplast called PentaDecor. Penta decor comes in two primary fashions from SSI in North America. 3D laminates is the primary for the penta decor, really classically known in North America for the super mats. Another important brand from SSI is Recover, which is a, that is also a 3D laminate that is made from recycled water bottles. of PET on 90% post-consumer, which is a very high level of post-consumer recycle content. It’s pretty exciting. It’s not post-industrial, post-consumer, which has its challenges as well, but it’s definitely an interesting product. Kenn 06:43 – 07:12 A quick note here about the PVC used in the materials that SSI distributes. They are plasticizer and Thalate free. These are rigid PVC films that don’t contain the plasticizers like you might find in shower curtains, shampoo bottles, and LVT resilient flooring. So Greg, how would you say your product mix is evolving at SSI? I would say over the last two to three years we’ve really Greg 07:13 – 07:51 robustly increased our 2D program with PentaDecor. So this is now for profile wrapping and flat lamination typically found in like five-piece doors or those classic style shaker looks. We also represent a brand called Radiance and Radiance is a very high-end 2D PET film, pentadacore being PVC and both 2D and 3D. And then Radiance again is PET, comes in high-gloss and supermat, very high end robust surface protection and those things that would be expected out of a 2D film. Kenn 07:53 – 08:46 And so just in the spirit of clarification, a 3D laminate is a flexible overlay, a laminate, that can be adhered to five of six sides of a panel, a contoured or shaped panel, all in one processing step, right? So let’s say it’s a cabinet door, you can surface the face, the tops and bottoms, and the edges, but not the back, all in one processing step. So that’s why we say 3DL, also known as RTF, vinyls, thermofoils, right, a million other terms. And then 2DL is really an application where it’s the material, the overlay, the laminate is wrapped around three of the five sides, the face and opposing, opposing edges. Am I, am I tracking? Am I explaining that properly, Greg? Greg 08:47 – 09:32 Yeah, roughly. Yeah. When you, when you think about 2D, 2D can come in so many different fashions. So the, the proper description, unlike 3D, 3D is pretty straightforward. 2D, if you think of a molding, if you can think of a, of a five piece door or a molding, a crown molding, you can really effectively cover the visual side of the piece with a thinner, yet still engineered to perform in its resting place properly. So if that’s a crown molding, if that’s a five piece door, if that’s a decorative frame for a picture, you know, what have you, it 2D comes, it could be a flat panel. Kenn 09:34 – 09:40 So from a surface finished perspective, a few years ago, everybody was wild about high gloss. Is that still the case? Greg 09:41 – 09:46 You know, from a trend perspective now, it’s very little high gloss. It’s monochromatic at best. Kenn 09:48 – 09:54 Interesting. And you mentioned super matte, which is, is that the same as the anti fingerprint stuff that is so popular? Greg 09:55 – 10:36 Super matte can come in variations depending on the coating system and the, you know, the level that you buy, meaning from the menu, if you will. But yes, Superman typically comes with a variety of performance characteristics and anti fingerprint. As much oil as we leave behind just people, we still refuse to believe it and we don’t want to see it. And so that’s where these new top coding applications are really, they’re leading the way and allowing specification on mass scales to be okay because those specifications demand it. Kenn 10:37 – 10:41 When you say leaving oils behind, we’re talking about fingerprints, right? We’re talking about skin oil and– Greg 10:41 – 10:52 Yeah, I mean, anytime you touch something, you’re leaving a fingerprint, but we refuse to want to see that. So we demand that our surfaces really do not show that. Kenn 10:52 – 11:02 And then 3D laminates really, you mentioned solid colors, but they’re in wood grains. They’re in metallics. Do you want to give us an idea of the kind of the design scope of a 3D laminate? Greg 11:03 – 11:42 So from a texture standpoint, we can provide a textured emboss that would feel like an oak tree or modern wood pour where it’s, you know, striated drops with a very velvety soft texture from a haptic standpoint or from a shopping standpoint. I think at least in North America, we shop with our hands. We very much reach out and touch before we make a comment on how we think something looks. We can’t wait to touch that Superman and really feel the haptic part of it and decide if we really like the color or not. It’s very interesting. Kenn 11:43 – 12:08 Let’s talk just a little bit about what 3D laminate replaces, I guess, in the real world, right? Because you can get wood looks, you can get the solid colors, you can get the different finishes from high gloss to super matte. What is the advantage of using 3D laminate over some of the, let’s say, legacy choices or traditional choices for those finishes? And what are those other materials and finishes that you’re you’re replacing with 3DL? Greg 12:10 – 14:35 Yeah, well, 3DL provides, as you described earlier, five of the six sides. So if we think about from a store fixture perspective, if we have high wear, high impact, below the waste applications that typically would, you know, really take a beating, traditionally we’ve designed with things that have been very rigid and very supported and have tendencies to fracture and chip over time. 3D laminates, because of its composition and its structure underneath it, MDF, typically don’t fracture. The sharp instruments are bad news for 3D laminates, but in an impact situation or a wear situation, transactionally on a counter or below the waist, people rubbing up against it constantly, They really outperform a lot of the materials that are typically specified or at least in the price category. So again, sharp instruments and high heat are no good for 3D. That’s our fail points. Those are not good. Where other decorative surfaces definitely will perform 3D. But when we’re talking about impact and wear resistance on longevity, even in comparison to something like paint, it can be achieved at a much less cost to paint a door over time. But if you have to replace or the idea is to add on and maintain 3D laminates, definitely give a leg up to that type of decorative surface when we’re competing. So it’s a wide category of competition. I in a lot of ways, my partners are also my competition. So our responsibility is to make sure that we partner with Penta to Core Films or any brand of films that we offer in edge banding to people in the industry like the TFL suppliers. So it’s really important for us to have those cooperations, but in the same breath, we’re both fighting for the same. In some cases, we’re both challenged for the same project to our work competing against each other. So it’s the right material in the right application for the right expectations, I think. Kenn 14:36 – 18:06 So, and because, okay, you mentioned sharp instruments, right? 3DL is a thermal plastic, and so if you drop a scissors point down onto it, it’s going to make a nick, right? Just like if it was veneer or paint, right? So I know you’re comparing yourself to all these These other laminate materials, these super durable materials, but 3DL really replaces paint and solid wood because you can carve these contoured edges, you can carve interior details in a door front, you can engineer in a cutout in the middle of a 3DL panel, like when you’re at the doctor’s office and they have the little hole where you toss the the gloves into the waste basket, right? Through the top of the thing. So, you know, 3DL is really replacing other more traditional finishes that have all this design flexibility, odd-shaped pieces, contoured edges, soft edges, etc., etc. So, you know, I’ve been heard you, I’ve heard you make this comparison before. I’m like, you’re comparing yourself to the bullet-proof stuff in our industry, which is what design ways, which you’re really competing with are these really fragile, more natural and more traditional services that don’t stand up to cleaning like in a healthcare situation, right? So it’s kind of like the context of what you’re talking about needs to be really firmly established. And so 3DL is the most flexible, laminate material we have. And the cost of that is, well, you can’t stab it, right? And you can’t put a boiling pot of water on it. Sounds like the same thing with a painted surface or a veneer surface, you know, those are going to fail under the same situations. A quick word here about the miracle material that is MDF. MDF is made from the fiber of the parts of trees or the pieces of wood that are left over from other woodworking processes. What used to be waste, it’s refined down to particles and then further refined down to fibers and turned into panels that have this very smooth, very homogenous surface even as you machine into the wood. So any kind of material like a 3D laminate or a 2D laminate that is thin enough to show through any imperfections that you might have in the substrate, MDF is an excellent choice. And it’s also a course because it is using waste wood, wood that we used to landfill or burn. It makes it a very sustainable component once you put the durable long lasting 2DL or 3DL material on it. And then application categories for 3DL, right? We’re talking commercial and residential all over the board. I talk about healthcare a lot because this is a lot of feature stories I’m working on right now or in the healthcare world. And 3DL because it does that, you know, laminate five of six sides of a panel in one processing step. I cannot get that phrase out of my mouth because I think it’s really important. There’s efficiencies there. But it’s also seals that panel for easy cleaning. And because it is a thermoplastic surface, you can clean it with really simple compounds, right? I think I’ve done this on some CEUs in the healthcare world. It’s open water. Greg 18:07 – 18:21 Because it’s hydrophobic, because it stands up to a lot of common and maybe not so common surface cleaning agents or even practices. Kenn 18:22 – 18:57 A quick side note here on the testing that needs to be done on surface materials that are going to be used in healthcare applications. They need to be able to withstand not just the cleaning agents used in those settings, but also any other chemicals that might splash around, body fluids, disinfectants, other types of things used in a medical setting. So while cleaning these materials is relatively easy with soap and water, they need to stand up to a lot harsher chemistry than just soap and water. But I digress. Greg, please continue. Greg 18:58 – 19:51 When you talk about reagents, it’s not Lysol anymore. It’s not just Lysol. It’s 50 versions of the same thing. And it’s going to make an impact on what you test and what you have available. And really, it’s driven by our customers. The things that are obvious, okay, iodine and betadine and those things, yeah, that’s pretty clear. But you know, when things change and technology changes, not just in our industry, but in cleaning and everything else, this UVC lighting has made us reconsider coatings and how long it can be contacted for. It’s an interesting challenge. 3D still performs in that world, I would say as good, if not better than most. It’s an aggressive environment. It’s very hard. Kenn 19:51 – 21:04 Well, in that same sort of desire for a low maintenance, easy to clean surface is not just limited to healthcare too, right? I mean, I’m doing stories on education environments and how important it is to keep our preschools as sanitary as possible, even though, you know, the entire population are little germ buckets running around. And then also multifamily. Developers are, they don’t have access to the cleaning crews. They can’t afford them or they’re just not available as apartments turn over or as the community rooms or the shared kitchens and the other amenity spaces in multifamily need to be cleaned by the tenants. Well, you got to keep it simple. It’s important to note that in commercial specification especially, very few of these materials work in a vacuum. They are part of a package of other materials. They need to coordinate functionally. They need to coordinate design-wise with other types of materials. So what can distributors and material suppliers do to make sure those projects turn out successfully? Jessica 21:06 – 22:47 As far as the specification side of it, I really think it just comes down to really educating and thinking about how to include 3DL into the laminate conversation. So a designer can essentially pick whatever aesthetic they want to, and then they can pick the laminate product that best fits the application. One question we get faced with all the time is, what is the radius tolerance? Well, it depends. So if you’re looking at TFL, if you’re looking at HPL, you know, there’s obviously some limitations there. Enter 3DO, you know, as a solution. So that’s why we really tried to work with designers and educate them to include us on their whole design process and the applications because we see it all the time where a specifier will put into a writt

6. Material IQ Episode 000: “The world needs that from us” from Material IQ, opens in a new tab

   Sep 24, 202525 min

   This episode talks about the role of sustainable materials for high-demand, high-traffic areas like airports, lounges, and retail areas with designer Jordana Dall’Igna . Every episode of the Material IQ podcast explores in detail the materiality of the built environment: innovation, inspiration, and case studies from leading architects, designers, suppliers, and manufacturers with an emphasis on climate-positive outcomes in commercial and residential design. Read a transcript of this podcast episode The following podcast transcript was generated with Whisper AI and may contain errors. [Music] As a young designer, we need to keep those things in mind. We are the change, we are the future. So if we don’t change our mindsets and the way we approach materials, that’s not going to change. So it’s up to us, especially to space fires, like we need to push better materials, better solutions. The world needs that from us. [Music] The world needs that from us. Holy cow. That’s Jordana Delinia. She is a commercial interior designer specializing in airport food and beverage areas, lounges, and retail areas all over the world. And I am Ken Busch, your host for the Material IQ podcast. This is episode zero. It’s an episode I’m putting together to inform our industry partners about what’s going on with Material IQ —what we’re going to be doing with it in the future, and what’s happening with Material Intelligence 2.0. Jordana and I met at Neocon. She’s from Vancouver, but she works on airport projects all over the world. We met during Neocon in my Material Intelligence Destination Neocon exhibit, where we were showing lots of different sustainable materials. She was taking the long tour and visiting all of our sponsors. She was kind enough to let me interrogate her about her job, her company, the projects she works on, and the challenges she faces in always trying to choose the most sustainable materials and products. It turns out a big part of her job is educating her customers—not only about performance and aesthetics but also about the long-term sustainability of the project. Ken: I’m guessing you feel obligated to educate your clients about what sustainability means in their context. How do you do that? Jordana: Well, that’s a big challenge. We always try to bring them data. I think that’s the best way of selling something—showing studies and proving our point. That should touch our clients. We’re talking about the future, we’re talking about the environment, and that’s why we try to push sustainable products to them. Education is the biggest thing. We might share an article or numbers. We really like hemp. Hemp, for example, is a great product. We’ve been seeing it in furniture and clothing. In Canada that’s legal, so we can get a lot of hemp stuff, which is really nice. We always try to share data: you’re going to use much less water to produce it, sometimes you get a better price—sometimes not, sometimes it’s more expensive upfront—but it pays off over time. She’s talking about hemp-based products there, and she likes them because they’re sustainable. Those suppliers have done a great job of giving her the data and information she needs to sell it to her clients. She also brought up another material category that I won’t mention because she asked me not to. It’s not very sustainable. It is durable, but she loves it because she gets excellent support from the supplier. They have teams ready to answer her questions and help her sell that material to her clients. Remember: a commercial interior designer doesn’t buy a single square centimeter of anything until they’ve already sold it to their customers. As you probably know, the most effective way of educating interior designers is through Continuing Education Unit presentations and programs—CEUs. Whether you’re an architect or an interior designer, residential or commercial, CEUs are required by professional associations. Usually it’s so many hours every two years. But they have to be relevant and engaging. I think the days of “here’s absolutely everything you need to know about this material” are past. Ken: How important are CEUs to you? Jordana: Quite important. We see that most designers just want them for the hours. It’s not really important to them, but we try to have a different approach. Ken: I have clients who look at CEUs as a chance to train their best salespeople—which are you—because you don’t buy anything until you’ve already sold it, right? Jordana: Absolutely. Education is everything. If you know what you’re selling, you can sell it. If you don’t, it’s really hard to convince anyone. If you’re not convincing yourself it’s the best solution, there’s no way you can pass that up to your clients. Ken: Are you getting enough support from your suppliers? Jordana: I think so. But often we have to reach out and ask for things we hope would just be delivered to us. I’m talking about information, not samples. We have to chase them: “Hey, why is this better? How can I sell it to my client? Your price is higher. I like your product, but how do I sell that? I can’t just say, ‘Oh, it’s beautiful.’” So a lot of times we have to chase that information. That’s the process, I guess. But how can I sell it if I don’t know what it is? Her answer shows some hesitancy. A couple of suppliers do a great job, but many don’t. She often lacks the information she needs to not only design but also to sell her choices to clients. One of the through-lines of our conversation was sustainability. She and her young team were very concerned about how their choices impact resources, the future, and indoor air quality. Companies like the hemp supplier—those who connect with her values—get specified more often. Ken: How do you talk about sustainability? What’s most important—carbon footprint, longevity, ease of care? Jordana: They all count. I think that’s the future. You can’t run away from that. For years we’ve known that much of our practice isn’t sustainable—we just kept doing it. But there’s no going back. You have to look forward and understand why this matters. It’s a personal thing. It matters to me because this is our environment. This is the only world we have. There’s no other way. It matters to her because this is the only world we have. I hear that from young designers again and again. Sustainability is personal. Which is why I was surprised when I asked about wood. Ken: How do you feel about specifying wood products, like hardwoods? Jordana: That’s a trick question. Durability and look—it’s great. We like to specify it. But at the same time, it’s not sustainable. A lot of companies aren’t sustainable. Some are. But many clients aren’t interested in real wood anymore. “Wood isn’t sustainable.” Clients aren’t interested in it anymore. That’s a colossal fail on the part of the wood products industry—the forest fiber value chain. You have no idea how hard it was for me not to shift into lecture mode. But I asked her to elaborate. Jordana: I think it’s a combo of price, sustainability, and durability. Cleaning and caring for natural products is harder. Airports are trickier—we need the most resistant surfaces. People don’t care. They’ll put their feet up. It’s not like home. Ken: When you say you get pushback on wood, is it because people think managed forestry isn’t doing a good job? Jordana: Yeah, I think so. People aren’t well educated on where it comes from. They have an idea and stick with it, without understanding what it really means. She’s making a great point: many don’t understand what managed forestry means. I once ran a focus group with 11 designers and architects. I showed them two pictures: One was a healthy forest of tall sugar maples, managed six years earlier. The other was a clear-cut Brazilian rainforest, nothing but stumps. Nine out of 11 chose the stumps as “managed forestry.” In reality, that’s deforestation—the opposite of managed forestry. Jordana also noted something I’ve observed: inertia in design firms. Older designers have fixed ideas. Younger designers are tasked with educating them. Jordana: Management can be a problem too. Companies in the market for a long time, with older managers, often have a closed vision. They think sustainable materials won’t last. So it’s part of us young designers to educate the old people in our offices. Ken: Good luck, right? Jordana: Yeah. But it works. So suppliers like us need to give Jordana the tools she needs—not just to educate clients, but also her own senior colleagues. And at that point, I couldn’t help myself. Ken: Did you know that wood, by weight, is 50% stored carbon? Jordana: I did not know that. That’s really interesting. I’m definitely bringing that back to my team. So how can we help Jordana bring information like that back to her team? The answer, right after this message from our sponsors. Well, since I haven’t sold any sponsorships yet, this episode is sponsored by materialintelligence.com. Our site is newly redesigned, and we’re updating all the material guides and other content. Please check it out. Also, climatepositivenow.org , which we’ll be relaunching in September. So now for the big reveal. What is this podcast really about? It’s about helping people like Jordana. We’ll take several tracks with this podcast: Education for industry suppliers on how to connect with the design community. Interviews with designers, association heads, and others in the A&D specification realm. CEU-certified conversations about materials and sustainability. The AIA now certifies spoken-word podcasts as “nano CEUs”—0.25 or 0.5 learning credits. These are also accepted by ASID and IIDA. So podcasts like this can count as educational content. We’ll turn content from materialintelligence.com guides into CEU podcasts, and we’ll work with companies to create custom CEU podcasts. We’ll handle production, approval, and reporting. Sponsors get the leads and contact info of designers who participate. If you’ve already got a CEU, we can adapt it into a podcast. If you don’t, we’ll be an AIA provider so you don’t need to pay $5,000 a year for just one CEU. Not all of our podcasts will be CEUs, but all will be Material IQ . We’ll build a library of certified podcasts, easily searchable, posted on major streaming platforms and promoted by us—and you, if your name is attached. We’ll also interview upstream suppliers—those who provide technology, edge banding, textures, components. Not the sexiest topics for designers, but critical for producers. These conversations put benefits into context with what really matters. These are audio-only podcasts. No video for now, except special projects. Research shows spoken-word interviews are more popular and accessible, especially for young professionals. We’ll also pursue joint displays at future exhibitions—2026 IWF, K-Bus, Neocon, BDNY, and others. But the real goal is launching the Material IQ podcast: To work with industry partners to create content for architects and interior designers. To work with upstream suppliers to create lively, entertaining conversations that deliver value to the decorative surfacing value chain. This has been the Material IQ Podcast, Episode Zero , brought to you by materialintelligence.com and Climate Positive Now. Our goal is a searchable library of certified content and industry knowledge for architects, interior designers like Jordana, and everyone in the specified materials value chain. We’ll expand coverage on materialintelligence.com to include other specified materials beyond wood. So if you’ve got something slightly outside the wood products realm, we’re here to work with you. Thanks for listening. I hope this was entertaining, maybe educational—hopefully both. And congratulations, we hope we’ve increased your Material IQ by a point or two. See you next time. [Music] This has been a production of Material Intelligence LLC. All rights reserved.