Co-Creating the Third Attractor

In this conversation with Jonas Søvik, we explore what happens when the rational drive to “do the most good” meets a more integral, relational and nondual understanding of change.Jonas brings his experience in Effective Altruism into dialogue with questions of inner development, community, agency and emergence. We speak about the many “islands of coherence” already experimenting with new ways of living, and ask what it would take to connect them into a genuine web of relationships, shared learning and action.We also explore the tension between surrender and agency, knowing and not knowing, the possibilities and dangers of AI, and why our response to the future needs both clear thinking and a deeper capacity to listen. Can Effective Altruism evolve beyond its rationalist roots into something more integral, while keeping its commitment to evidence, humility and real-world impact?0:00 Defining the Third Attractor2:40 Islands of Coherence4:19 Surrender and Respond6:22 Holding Internal Paradoxes11:04 Environment and Affordances15:40 The Beauty of Not Knowing19:50 Relational Infrastructure31:47 The AI Predicament44:54 Reasons for HopeJonas Søvik is a coach, facilitator and community builder working to integrate effective altruism with the traditions it has tended to exclude. He co-organises Integral Altruism, an initiative bringing systems thinking, wisdom practice, metarationality and metamodernism into contact with the EA framework, on the premise that EA's inherited blind spots in utilitarianism, naive rationalism and techno-solutionism become liabilities when problems are complex and unfolding under radical uncertainty. He has served on the board of EA Denmark and worked at the EA Hotel in Blackpool. He has worked with John Vervaeke and with Lene Rachel Andersen on Bildung and the folk high school tradition, and his long-term aim is to found an academy combining metacrisis literacy, effective altruism and wisdom practice. He also runs Coaching for Humans, including a programme on regaining control of attention in a system engineered to capture it. https://integralaltruism.comhttps://www.coachingforhuman.comhttps://appliedmetatheory.org Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment. Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

In this conversation with author and Accidental Gods host Manda Scott, we explore what it might actually take to create a future worth living in. Manda brings together shamanic practice, inner healing, regenerative thinking and the power of storytelling to ask how a genuinely different future could emerge. We speak about moving beyond the stories of scarcity, separation and powerlessness that shape so much of our present world, and towards connection, agency and sufficiency. Manda argues that we cannot create a new system simply by thinking harder within the old one. We need to heal our inner divisions, reconnect with each other and with the wider web of life, and learn to listen for what wants to emerge. We also explore regenerative economics, new forms of governance, the commons, the opportunities and dangers of AI, and why stories matter so deeply. If we cannot imagine a different future, how can we possibly create one? Manda Scott is a novelist, podcaster and teacher working at the intersection of storytelling and systemic change. A former veterinary surgeon, she was shortlisted for the Orange Prize for her debut Hen's Teeth and won the McIlvanney Prize for A Treachery of Spies, though she is best known for the Boudica: Dreaming quartet. After a Masters in Regenerative Economics at Schumacher College she founded Accidental Gods, a podcast and membership programme giving sustained attention to the people building structural alternatives to a failing system. With her wife Faith Tilleray she co-created the Thrutopia Masterclass, based on the premise that dystopia rehearses collapse and utopia is not believable, so what we lack are stories of the transition between them. Her sixteenth novel, Any Human Power, is a political thriller built on exactly that principle. She has taught contemporary shamanic practice for forty years. https://mandascott.co.uk https://accidentalgods.life https://thrutopia.life Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment. Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

In this conversation with philosopher Robert M. Ellis, we explore the Middle Way and its surprising overlap with the Third Attractor. Robert describes the Middle Way not as compromise or simply finding a position between two extremes, but as a practical way of avoiding absolutism, widening our perspective and remaining open to reframing our assumptions. We talk about judgment and optionality, the relationship between individual and collective change, ethics, archetypes, metaphysics, and the challenge of acting decisively without turning our beliefs into absolutes. We also explore where Robert and I disagree, particularly around metaphysics, while arriving at remarkably similar conclusions about how we might navigate an uncertain future. And towards the end, we turn to AI and Robert’s deep concerns about its impact on human thinking and our collective future.Robert M. Ellis is a British philosopher, founder of the Middle Way Society and originator of Middle Way Philosophy, a cross-disciplinary account of judgement under uncertainty drawing on Western philosophy, psychology, neuroscience and systems theory as well as Buddhist practice. He holds a Ph.D. in Philosophy from Lancaster, spent twenty years as an ordained Buddhist before leaving the tradition, and is the author of Absolutization, The Five Principles of Middle Way Philosophy, The Buddha's Middle Way and The Christian Middle Way. He runs Tirylan House Retreat Centre in Wales.https://www.robertmellis.net/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment.Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

Discover the Third Attractor with Jenny Andersson and learn how we can align human activity with ecological boundaries.Jenny Andersson, founder of The Really Regenerative Centre, joins this conversation to discuss the practical shifts required for a sustainable future. We examine how shifting our focus toward regenerative leadership and bioregionalism allows communities to steward their own places effectively. By prioritizing ecological boundaries over traditional political lines, we can start building a future grounded in wholeness.This dialogue explores the Third Attractor as a vision already being seeded through local experiments. We look at how new economic models can move us beyond competition, emphasizing the inner development needed alongside outer structural changes. This is an invitation to consider how your own community can participate in this necessary collective evolution.Subscribe for weekly explorations into systems thinking, and share one aspect of regenerative living you are curious about below. Jenny Andersson is the founder and director of The Really Regenerative Centre, which she launched in 2020 after thirty years in international development, brand strategy, communications and sustainability design. She designs learning journeys on regenerative leadership, economics and bioregionalism for organisations, municipalities and communities, working from the premise that human activity should be organised around ecological boundaries rather than political ones. She led a global inquiry for the Joseph Rowntree Foundation into what allows communities to steward the regeneration of their own places. She holds an MBA from London Business School and an MSc in Psychology, is a qualified Regenesis Regenerative Practitioner, and was a founding member of the design team for Kate Raworth's Doughnut Economics Action Lab. Her place is Midhurst, Sussex. https://reallyregenerative.org/ Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment. Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

What does it take to build a truly pro-social world?In this conversation, evolutionary biologist David Sloan Wilson brings Darwinian evolution into dialogue with the vision of the Third Attractor. We explore why cooperation is one of evolution’s greatest achievements, why good intentions alone are not enough, and how groups can create the conditions that allow people to work together for the common good.Drawing on multilevel selection and Elinor Ostrom’s groundbreaking work on the commons, David explains the core principles that enable groups to become cooperative, resilient and self-governing. We also explore the relationship between inner transformation and social structures, the limits of individualism, and how cooperation might expand from small groups to communities, nations and ultimately the whole planet.At the heart of the conversation is a hopeful possibility: perhaps a more pro-social future does not need to remain a utopian ideal. We already know a great deal about the conditions that make cooperation possible. The challenge is to begin putting them into practice.0:00 Co-creating a Pro-Social World5:29 Bridging Inner States and Outer Actions9:06 Tracing Intellectual and Spiritual Lineages15:44 The Evolutionary Biologist's Perspective22:24 Respecting Indigenous Wisdom26:34 Understanding the WEIRD Cultural Bias37:56 The Evolutionary Dilemma of Altruism48:38 Elinor Ostrom and the Commons1:12:30 A Blueprint for Global Flourishingabout David Sloan WilsonDavid Sloan Wilson is an evolutionary biologist and Distinguished Professor Emeritus of Biological Sciences and Anthropology at Binghamton University, where he taught from 1988 until his retirement in 2019. He is the leading proponent of multilevel selection theory, developed with philosopher Elliott Sober in their book "Unto Others," which argues that natural selection operates on a nested hierarchy of units: genes within individuals, individuals within groups, groups within populations. Cooperation, on this account, is a real evolutionary outcome rather than disguised self-interest, but it survives only where the conditions at the higher level hold. He founded the Evolutionary Studies program at Binghamton to unify disciplines under evolutionary theory, and co-founded the Evolution Institute and Prosocial World, which applies multilevel selection alongside Elinor Ostrom's design principles to help real groups function as cooperative units. His books include "Evolution for Everyone" and "Atlas Hugged."https://davidsloanwilson.worldhttps://www.prosocial.worldabout Daniela BomatterDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment.Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

What if consciousness is not produced by the universe, but is the ground from which the universe emerges?In this conversation, physicist and author James B. Glattfelder explores ideas from The Sapient Cosmos: the “will to complexity,” consciousness as fundamental, and evolution as a movement toward greater awareness. We talk about idealism, psychedelics and non-ordinary states, quantum physics, AI and consciousness, and what it could mean to live in a participatory universe.At the heart of our conversation is a hopeful possibility: that the future is not simply something that happens to us. By recognizing our interconnectedness, taking responsibility, and learning to listen more deeply, we may become conscious participants in an evolutionary process that is still unfolding.James B. Glattfelder is a theoretical physicist turned complexity scientist, with an M.Sc. in theoretical physics and a Ph.D. in complex systems, both from ETH Zurich. In 2011 he co-authored "The Network of Global Corporate Control," which mapped ownership across some 43,000 transnational corporations and identified a small cluster of firms, mostly banks, holding disproportionate influence over the global economy. He spent sixteen years in finance and was a postdoctoral researcher at the University of Zurich. His books include "Decoding Complexity," "Information, Consciousness, Reality," and "The Sapient Cosmos," which argue that the ontology of reality is information-theoretic and participatory, and that physicalism was a metaphysical choice rather than a scientific finding. He lives in Zurich.https://jth.ch/jbgDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born evolutionary practitioner, facilitator, and former technology executive whose life bridges the worlds of systems transformation, spiritual awakening, and human development. After a successful career in software engineering and leadership, including serving as CEO of SwissEnergy at the Swiss Federal Office of Energy, she left public life in 2016 to dedicate herself fully to the path of spiritual realization and conscious evolution. For seventeen years, she studied and worked closely with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen, becoming a senior practitioner and teacher of Evolutionary Enlightenment.Daniela is the co-founder of Manifest Nirvana (https://www.manifest-nirvana.com) and lives in Tiruvannamalai, South India, where she leads retreats, online programs, and global dialogues exploring the intersection of awakening, culture, and collective transformation. She is the creator of the “Co-Creating the Third Attractor” Podcast (https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com ) , a integral inquiry into the future of human civilization, and the author of The Viratya Myth Begins (https://www.viratya.com). Through her writing, teaching, and conversations, Daniela invites people to discover a way of being that embraces both timeless presence and evolutionary becoming, holding the paradoxes of our age with depth, responsibility, and wonder.

How do we create a future that is neither collapse nor techno-utopia? In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, Daniela Bomatter speaks with Ivo Mensch about what it really means to co-create the Third Attractor.Rather than treating the Third Attractor as a fixed destination, Ivo sees it as a way of navigating: a living orientation that helps us respond wisely to each moment while remaining open to an unknown future. Together they explore why holding paradoxes, rather than resolving them, may be one of the defining capacities of an emerging consciousness. The conversation moves through some of today’s most important questions: the limits of individual development, the need for coherent rather than merely cohesive communities, and why spirituality must once again become deeply engaged with culture rather than remaining an individual pursuit. They discuss the role of grand narratives, world-making, and the challenge of building shared visions without turning them into rigid ideologies. NoteGPT_Transcript_ThirdAttractorIvo.txtA central theme is Ivo’s work on unlearning. Drawing on neuroscience, systems thinking, and contemplative practice, he argues that our deepest assumptions about reality, identity, time, and progress unconsciously shape how we perceive the world. Genuine transformation begins not by adding new ideas, but by loosening our attachment to old mental models so that new possibilities can emerge. This is a conversation for anyone interested in systems change, metamodernism, integral thinking, collective intelligence, spirituality, and the practical work of creating a more coherent future together. Ivo Mensch works where contemplative practice meets cultural change. He is a founding member of the Emerge Institute in Stockholm, where he directs Research and Consilience, and he previously built the Praxis strand at Perspectiva, the London-based charity describing its work as a hundred-year project on the relationship between systems, souls and society.His research examines innovation in spiritual practice, particularly interbeing, working toward what he calls a spiritually informed sociology built around the body, time, imagination and logos as the fundamental dimensions of change.The underlying question is not what practice does for the individual but what it makes a culture capable of perceiving and doing.He is an ordained monk in the Soto Zen lineage and has practiced in the Diamond Approach for over a decade. As an author and coach, he designs practices and courses for navigating long arcs of cultural transition and shifts in consciousness. He is a certified Integral Development Coach, trained in Aletheia group unfolding, and writes at his Substack, Increasing Life, on culture, technology, consciousness and collective action.A large part of his focus is unlearning: what people working to change the world need to release before anything new can take hold, and what forms of education actually support that.Emerge Institute: https://emergelakefront.orgPerspectiva: https://systems-souls-society.comHis Substack, Increasing Life:About Daniela BomatterDaniela Bomatter is the host of Co-Creating the Third Attractor, a podcast exploring the consciousness, culture, and leadership needed for humanity’s next stage of evolution.A former CEO of SwissEnergy in Switzerland, Daniela is now Co-Founder of Manifest Nirvana and founder of the Manifest Nirvana Ashram in Tiruvannamalai, India. Inspired by the teaching of Andrew Cohen and Evolutionary Enlightenment, she facilitates dialogues, retreats, and communities dedicated to conscious evolution, regenerative culture, and collective awakening.Find all conversations:https://3da.manifest-nirvana.comManifest Nirvana:https://manifest-nirvana.com

In this conversation, Daniela Bomatter speaks with Remzi Bajrami, founder of Creditism, about one of the most ambitious questions of our time: Can we redesign money to serve life instead of power?Remzi explains why he believes today’s financial system concentrates wealth, fuels inequality, and disconnects humanity from the commons. He introduces Creditism, a new economic model where money is created, distributed, and retired differently, making it possible to guarantee basic security while rewarding meaningful contribution rather than endless accumulation. Together they explore universal basic income, reclaiming the commons, decentralizing power, and the inner shift in consciousness that such a transformation would require.If you’re interested in the future of economics, systems change, and what a truly regenerative civilization might look like, this conversation offers a bold and thought-provoking vision.Remzi Bajrami is co-founder of the Common Planet Foundation and the originator of Creditism, an economic model built on credit that flows to people rather than debt that must be repaid. Born in 1973 in what is now North Macedonia, he spent years inside conventional business and real estate before turning to the question of what would replace the money system rather than reform it. He is the author of Common Planet: A New Game of Life (2022), which sets out a currency that is issued at the point of use and cleared afterwards, removing the need for banks, interest, and taxation. In his framing, credit flows to people because existence itself has value, circulates through life, and then clears. Through Common Planet he is developing the AYU Network alongside Adelina Bajrami and Adam Stallard, testing whether the model can be built in practice rather than argued in theory. His work has been discussed in GameB circles, including on the Jim Rutt Show. https://remzibajrami.comhttp://common-planet.org/Substack: https://commonplanet.substack.comAbout Daniela BomatterDaniela Bomatter is the host of Co-Creating the Third Attractor, a podcast exploring the consciousness, culture, and leadership needed for humanity’s next stage of evolution.A former CEO of SwissEnergy in Switzerland, Daniela is now Co-Founder of Manifest Nirvana and founder of the Manifest Nirvana Ashram in Tiruvannamalai, India. Inspired by the teaching of Andrew Cohen and Evolutionary Enlightenment, she facilitates dialogues, retreats, and communities dedicated to conscious evolution, regenerative culture, and collective awakening.Find all conversations:https://3da.manifest-nirvana.comManifest Nirvana:https://manifest-nirvana.com

What if the world’s biggest problems aren’t caused by bad leaders, but by a system that forces every nation to compete instead of cooperate?In this conversation, John Bunzl, founder of Simpol (Simultaneous Policy), joins Daniela Bomatter to explore why climate change, AI governance, economic inequality, and many other global crises remain unsolved despite decades of effort. Together they examine the hidden dynamics of destructive global competition and discuss a practical framework for enabling nations to act together without sacrificing their own interests.The conversation also explores worldcentric consciousness, Integral Theory, Spiral Dynamics, bottom-up citizen action, top-down political change, and why humanity may need a new form of global cooperation if it is to avoid polarization, authoritarianism, or collapse.0:00 The Search for a Third Attractor1:40 The Simultaneous Policy Framework4:09 Multi-Issue Policy Packages6:12 The Power of Citizen Pledges11:03 Safeguarding National Sovereignty16:22 AI-Assisted Global Negotiations20:27 The Challenge of Consciousness43:39 A Pilot for AI RegulationIf you’re interested in systems thinking, global governance, civilizational transformation, and the future of humanity, this conversation offers a compelling vision of what a genuine Third Attractor could look like.John Bunzl is a British businessman and political activist born in London in 1957. In 2000 he founded the International Simultaneous Policy Organisation and launched the Simultaneous Policy, known as Simpol, a campaign that asks citizens across many countries to pledge their votes to any candidate who commits to implementing a set of global policies simultaneously with other nations, on issues such as climate change, financial regulation, and inequality. His argument is that global competition between nations traps politicians into inaction, and that coordinated, simultaneous commitments can break that deadlock. Simpol now has supporters in over a hundred countries and has been signed by members of parliament across the political spectrum. Bunzl is the author of several books, including The Simultaneous Policy: An Insider's Guide to Saving Humanity and the Planet and, with Nick Duffell, The SIMPOL Solution. Alongside his activism he works as a company director in the raw materials and speciality papers business.Links: the Simpol campaign is at https://simpol.org, his team profile is at https://simpol.org/who-we-are/who-we-are, and his book The SIMPOL Solution is available on Amazon at https://www.amazon.com/SIMPOL-Solution-Solving-Biggest-Problems/dp/1633883930.About Daniela BomatterDaniela Bomatter is the host of Co-Creating the Third Attractor, a podcast exploring the consciousness, culture, and leadership needed for humanity’s next stage of evolution.A former CEO of SwissEnergy in Switzerland, Daniela is Co-Founder of Manifest Nirvana and founder of the Manifest Nirvana Ashram in Tiruvannamalai, India. Inspired by the teaching of Andrew Cohen and Evolutionary Enlightenment, she facilitates dialogues, retreats, and communities dedicated to conscious evolution, regenerative culture, and collective awakening.Find all conversations:https://3da.manifest-nirvana.comManifest Nirvana:https://manifest-nirvana.com

In this episode of Co-Creating the Third Attractor, Daniela Bomatter speaks with gerontologist and consciousness researcher Bettina Wichers about conscious aging, adult development, Integral Theory, transpersonal consciousness, and the role of elders in shaping the future of humanity.Together they explore how shadow work, trauma integration, the dissolution of the ego, and the emergence of transpersonal identity may prepare us for a more regenerative civilization. Rather than holding on to old identities, Bettina suggests that aging offers a unique opportunity to embody wisdom, deepen our relationship with life, and consciously participate in the evolution of culture.The conversation also explores a fascinating and controversial question: Could some forms of dementia reflect an unconscious dissolution of the personal self? While presented as an exploratory hypothesis, Bettina suggests that greater awareness and inner work may help transform this process into one of conscious development rather than unconscious decline.Topics include:• The Third Attractor• Conscious Aging• Adult Development• Integral Theory• Transpersonal Psychology• Shadow Work• Trauma Integration• Evolutionary Spirituality• The Role of Elders• Consciousness and Dementia• Collective Evolution• Regenerative CivilizationIf the Third Attractor is already emerging, perhaps one of its greatest untapped resources is the wisdom of conscious elders. What role do you think elders can play in humanity’s future? Let us know in the comments. If you enjoy conversations exploring consciousness, culture, and the future of civilization, please like, subscribe, and share this episode. ⸻About Bettina WichersBettina Wichers is a German gerontologist, lecturer, and consciousness researcher specializing in Integral Theory, conscious aging, and holistic approaches to dementia. Her work explores the intersection of aging, psychology, neuroscience, spirituality, and transpersonal development, proposing new ways of understanding the evolution of consciousness throughout the human lifespan.Website:https://www.bettinawichers.de/english-1/⸻ About Daniela BomatterDaniela Bomatter is the host of Co-Creating the Third Attractor, a podcast exploring the consciousness, culture, and leadership needed for humanity’s next stage of evolution.A former CEO of SwissEnergy in Switzerland, Daniela is now Co-Founder of Manifest Nirvana and founder of the Manifest Nirvana Ashram in Tiruvannamalai, India. Inspired by the teaching of Andrew Cohen and Evolutionary Enlightenment, she facilitates dialogues, retreats, and communities dedicated to conscious evolution, regenerative culture, and collective awakening. Find all conversations:https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com Manifest Nirvana:https://manifest-nirvana.com

This conversation moves through Jean Gebser's account of integral consciousness, the idea that we are not advancing toward a future so much as being worked on by a time that is already present and already shaping us. Jeremy calls this integral futuring: bringing an already unfolding future into conscious participation, rather than waiting for it to erupt as crisis.From there the discussion turns to what Jeremy calls the enantiodromia of modernity, the tendency of anything pushed to its extreme to flip into its opposite. Hyperproductivity produces a hunger for the analog and the slow. Mechanized cognition forces the question of what makes us human. Daniela and Jeremy test this against the hard edge of AI's near-term social cost, job loss, dependency, the erosion of discernment, not as speculation but as the present terrain the third attractor has to survive.They close on the other attractors circling this one: Latour's out-of-this-world trajectory of escape and acceleration, and the traditional pull back to land and ethnostate. Both offer something real. Neither offers a way through.A conversation on time, consciousness, and what it actually means to participate in a future rather than wait for it.Jeremy D. Johnson is a philosopher, author, and publisher working at the intersection of consciousness studies, ecology, and cultural transformation. He wrote Seeing Through the World: Jean Gebser and Integral Consciousness, the definitive introduction to the philosopher Jean Gebser's theory of the structures of consciousness. He is the publisher and editor of Integral Imprint, and manages the Integral Leadership Review. He hosts the Mutations podcast, where he explores emergent worldviews and planetary futures with philosophers, artists, and scholars. Jeremy serves as president of the International Jean Gebser Society and is a senior research associate at Perspectiva. He is completing his doctorate in Philosophy of Religion at the California Institute of Integral Studies. His work has appeared in Reality Sandwich, Evolve and Ascend, and Conscious Lifestyle Magazine, and he is currently working on his second book, Fragments of an Integral Future.Substack: https://substack.com/@jeremydjohnsonDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.📲 Let’s Connect & Build a Strong Speaking Community Together: Website : https://3da.manifest-nirvana.com/ Instagram : https://www.instagram.com/evolutionarynun/

In this conversation, Daniela Bomatter speaks with Dave Snowden, creator of the Cynefin framework, about why the future cannot be designed from the top down. Instead of searching for grand solutions, Snowden argues that real transformation emerges from thousands of small, local experiments that reveal what is already possible.The discussion explores complexity science, distributed sense-making, community resilience, education, AI, democracy, climate change, and the limits of developmental models. Snowden explains why societies need to focus less on defining the future they want and more on understanding the “substrate” of people’s lived experience, creating conditions where better futures can emerge naturally.Rather than asking “What should the world become?”, this conversation asks a deeper question:How do we create the processes that allow the future to discover itself? Dave Snowden is a Welsh management consultant and researcher working at the intersection of complexity science, anthropology, and organizational decision-making. He is best known for creating the Cynefin framework, a model developed in 1999 during his time at IBM that helps leaders distinguish between simple, complicated, complex, and chaotic problems and respond appropriately to each. He also designed SenseMaker, the first distributed ethnography tool built for large-scale narrative capture and pattern recognition. Dave holds a philosophy degree from the University of Lancaster and an MBA from Middlesex Polytechnic. He now divides his time between two roles, as founder and Chief Scientific Officer of The Cynefin Company and founder and Director of the Cynefin Centre, working internationally with government and industry on strategy and complex decision-making.https://cynefin.iohttps://thecynefin.co/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Jon Freeman describes a vision of individual freedom that does not collapse into chaos, because it lives inside a relationship with what he calls the information field. He defines coherence through the image of scattered light versus a laser: a state where inner sensing, not just thought or emotion, guides each choice. When asked whether that could shade into dogmatism, Jon draws on spiral dynamics: real coherence cannot be imposed from outside and belongs to second tier, where paradox is accepted rather than resolved into certainty. The two compare group practices, Jon's field circles and Daniela's intersubjective non-duality work, and land on a shared discovery: the deepest coherence appears when a group stops sharing personal experience and instead speaks from the field itself. On collapse, Jon is direct. He reads current signals, from the Strait of Hormuz to economic fragility, as pointing to a near-term shock that cannot be fully avoided. His answer is not prevention but preparation: building small islands of coherence now so any collapse lands softer. The conversation closes on AI, where Jon argues it lacks access to the field and to the present moment, and raises the open question of whether its builders can avoid locking humanity deeper into a materialist paradigm. Jon Freeman spent four decades in corporate IT and organizational development, working across consumer goods, engineering, air transport, and telecoms, and rising to European Director for a multinational firm. Two decades ago he trained intensively with Dr. Don Beck in Spiral Dynamics, a model of human development that spans individual, organizational, and societal scales, and he now teaches and applies it in coaching and organizational facilitation. He also trained in Cindy Wigglesworth's SQ21 spiritual intelligence system, serving as her first European trainer, and was a founding director of the UK chapter of Conscious Capitalism. He continues organizational work through the consultancy Future Considerations. Jon writes and speaks on what he calls relational being, exploring the idea that the universe operates through a field of information linking human systems, consciousness, and the natural world. He is the author of several books, including The Science of Possibility , Reinventing Capitalism , and his most recent work, What Makes You YOU . relationalbeing.substack.com www.jonfreeman.co.uk https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-Makes-You-YOU-Discover/dp/0993319289 Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment . As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself. She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram ( manifest-nirvana.com ), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change. In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins —a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Peter Merry explores what it means to navigate our time of profound transition through an integral, evolutionary lens. Together we examine why chaos is not simply breakdown, but the fertile space where the future begins to emerge. Rather than trying to predict or control what comes next, Peter invites us into the practice of "not knowing"—a deeper form of presence that allows us to participate consciously in emergence.We explore consciousness, time, leadership, Spiral Dynamics, AI, and the subtle fields of awareness that shape human evolution. Peter shares why future-ready leadership is less about having answers and more about sensing the whole, translating complexity for different perspectives, and creating the conditions for self-organization. We also discuss why AI, despite its extraordinary capabilities, cannot access the living field of consciousness in the way human beings can, and why reconnecting with our deepest human capacities may be the key to co-creating the Third Attractor.Ultimately, this conversation is an invitation to let go of certainty, trust the creative process of evolution, and contribute with integrity to the future that is already trying to emerge through us. Peter Merry is a social innovator, author, educator, and one of the leading voices in evolutionary leadership and systems transformation. As Chief Innovation Officer of Ubiquity University and founder of the Wyrd initiative, he explores the intersection of consciousness, leadership, subtle interconnectedness, and societal change. Drawing on Integral Theory, human ecology, and emerging understandings of energy and information fields, Peter's work invites us to lead "from the field" and participate consciously in the evolution of humanity. He is the author of Evolutionary Leadership, Why Work?, and Leading from the Field.https://petermerry.org/https://gowyrd.orgDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (https://manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

What if the future of humanity begins in the way we educate our children? In this inspiring conversation, educator and visionary Madhan Mohan shares how Arunachala Village School in rural South India has spent more than two decades reimagining education from the ground up. Built on freedom, unconditional love, trust and responsibility, the school empowers children to think for themselves, care for one another, and become active contributors to their communities. Together, we explore why genuine education is not about memorizing facts, but about awakening wisdom, compassion and the confidence to shape a better future—one child, one classroom and one community at a time. Madhan Mohan is a dreamer, a visionary, and a passionate advocate for children’s education. Since 2001, he has dedicated himself to revolutionising learning at Arunachala Village School, pioneering innovative approaches to primary education in rural India. Through his unwavering commitment, he has overcome immense challenges, reshaping the educational landscape for generations of students. Driven by a profound vision, Madhan Mohan has always believed in creating a school where joy and wisdom go hand in hand. Inspired by his childhood aspirations, he made a lifelong commitment to providing underprivileged children with the finest education possible—one that nurtures academic excellence and holistic growth.For over two decades, under his leadership, AVS has developed groundbreaking teaching methodologies tailored for rural students, many of whom come from undereducated or economically disadvantaged backgrounds. His relentless efforts have transformed the school campus into a vibrant, self-learning ecosystem – a testament to his perseverance and innovative spirit.Recognizing systemic challenges in traditional education, Madhan Mohan introduced revolutionary pedagogical techniques. Among his most impactful philosophies is the belief that “teachers should act as parents at school, while parents serve as teachers at home.” This shared responsibility model has strengthened collaboration between families and educators, fostering a deeper understanding of child development. His progressive vision has redefined primary education, emphasizing creativity, critical thinking, and emotional well-being.Website: https://arunachalaschool.org/If you'd like to support his work, please reach out to Madhan by email: leomadhan@icloud.comDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Dennis Wittrock frames the third attractor through Daniel Schmachtenberger's landscape metaphor: a narrow ridge between collapse and authoritarian control. He argues that belief in a third path is itself a precondition for reaching it, since attitude and daily behavior compound over time. The conversation covers the multipolar trap as the generator function behind the metacrisis, and the limits of global institutions like the UN in regulating a globalized economy. It then turns to organizational design, where Wittrock draws on Holacracy and the "Work with Source" model to show how decentralized decision-making outperforms traditional hierarchies, and closes with the open question of what this means for political governance. Dennis Wittrock is a philosopher, organizational innovator, and one of Europe’s leading voices at the intersection of integral theory, self-management, and civilizational transformation. A certified Holacracy® Master Coach, he has spent years helping organizations pioneer purpose-driven forms of governance while exploring how consciousness and culture shape the evolution of society. Dennis is the founder and co-director of the Integral European Conference, former CEO of the German Integral Association and the German Integral Academy, and the author of Holacracy verstehen. His work is dedicated to creating spaces where integral consciousness can emerge and where new paradigms for organizations, politics, and civilization can take root.website: https://denniswittrock.com/Podcast: Islands of Resonance (https://letscast.fm/sites/islands-of-resonance-f39f2119)Medium - Articles:Values Integration via the Integrative Decision-Making process: https://medium.com/about-holacracy/values-integration-via-the-integrative-decision-making-process-5b2e2a754149Emergent Solutions for a World in Crisis: https://medium.com/@denniswittrock/emergent-solutions-for-a-world-in-crisis-bf8ed5f2d65eDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this conversation, painter and teacher Jordan Wolfson explores the essential role of art in co-creating the Third Attractor. Drawing on Iain McGilchrist’s work, he describes our current crises as expressions of an overly dominant left hemisphere, shaped by control, utility, abstraction and power. A more humane future would require the right hemisphere to lead again, reconnecting us with wholeness, empathy, beauty, awe and the living texture of experience.Jordan speaks about aesthetic engagement as far more than artistic expression. Whether through painting, music, dance or other creative practices, working with form can train us to remain present, tolerate uncertainty and participate in emergence without trying to control it. The conversation moves through the relationship between being and becoming, agency and receptivity, individual creativity and interbeing, asking whether art may be one of humanity’s most powerful and still underused resources for imagining and embodying a different future.Jordan Wolfson is an American painter whose work investigates consciousness through the medium of painting itself. Rather than treating painting as representation, he approaches it as a practice of perception—an exploration of how awareness, light, and form arise in experience. Educated at Yale and shaped by decades of artistic and contemplative inquiry, Wolfson has exhibited internationally and received numerous awards for his work. His paintings invite viewers into a slower, more attentive way of seeing, where art becomes less an object to interpret than a space for discovering the nature of consciousness itself.Book-Link: https://www.lulu.com/shop/jordan-wolfson/power-and-presence/paperback/product-q6wm9wr.html?q=jordan+wolfson&page=1&pageSize=4Website: https://jordanwolfson.com/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

What if the greatest crisis of our time is not climate change itself, but the way we value the world? In this conversation, filmmaker and ecological restoration pioneer John D. Liu invites us to rethink the very foundations of our civilization. Drawing on decades of documenting some of the world’s largest ecosystem restoration projects, including China’s remarkable transformation of the Loess Plateau, he argues that healthy, functioning ecosystems are far more valuable than any material wealth we can accumulate. Rather than offering another political or technological solution, John points toward a profound shift in consciousness: from extraction to regeneration, from ownership to participation, and from seeing ourselves as separate individuals to recognizing that we are expressions of one living planetary system. We explore ecological civilization, the limits of economic thinking, why people cannot simply be “taught” to change, and what it might take for humanity to rediscover its rightful place within the living Earth. John D. Liu is an ecosystem restoration pioneer, filmmaker, and environmental educator whose work has inspired ecological regeneration projects around the world. Through documenting large-scale landscape restoration and collaborating with scientists, governments, and local communities, he has shown that degraded ecosystems can recover when humans learn to work with nature rather than against it.His work points beyond sustainability toward regeneration, inviting us to see humanity not as separate from the living Earth, but as a conscious participant in the planet’s ongoing evolution. His perspective offers a powerful vision of how ecological restoration and inner transformation can become part of the same civilizational shift. Friends of the Ecosystem Restoration Communities Movementhttps://www.ecosystemrestorationfriends.com/The film GreenGoldhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3nR3G9jbocThe Ecosystem Restoration Communities websitehttps://ecosystemrestorationcommunities.org/ Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

In this conversation, I speak with political scientist and integral thinker Elke Fein about what it would actually take to bring a new paradigm into politics. Rather than focusing on ideology, Elke explores how developmental psychology, Deep Democracy, shadow work, and genuine dialogue can help us create political cultures that are capable of holding complexity instead of collapsing into polarization. We discuss why conflict, when approached consciously, can become a gateway to deeper community rather than division, and why the future of politics depends as much on our inner capacities as on new institutions. One of the themes that stayed with me throughout our conversation is the importance of humility. Elke argues that an integral approach requires us to embrace multiple perspectives, take the latest science seriously, and at the same time remain deeply aware of how much we do not know. Together we explore how developmental stages, spirituality, and new forms of collective sense-making might help humanity move beyond today’s polarization toward a genuinely attractive future. Dr. Elke Fein is a German political and social scientist, founding member and managing director of the Institut für integrale Studien (IFIS) in Freiburg, where she also serves as director of the Center for Integral Politics. She has been connected with IFIS since its founding in 2008 and has led projects such as Leadership for Transition (LiFT), which ran in several phases from 2013 to 2022.Her work focuses on integral politics, adult development, political culture, Russia studies, social transformation, and the role of deeper cultural patterns in democracy and systemic change. She studied political and social sciences at FU Berlin and Sciences Po Paris, as well as Eastern European studies and Eastern European history at FU Berlin and the University of Freiburg. In 2005, she completed a PhD on Russia’s political transformation and the 1992 CPSU trial before the Russian Constitutional Court.At IFIS, Fein works with integral process design, dialogue facilitation, Deep Democracy, round tables, and collaboratory formats. She is also the main author of the 2023 book “Integrale Politik - Grundlagen, Prinzipien und Inspirationsquellen”. In public profiles and interviews, she presents integral politics as a way to address polarization, transformation, and the “polycrisis” through more developmental and holistic approaches to political cultureDaniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. From there, she also facilitates the activities of the online ashram (manifest-nirvana.com), offering courses, dialogues, and retreats dedicated to evolutionary spirituality, collective awakening and cultural change.In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.

Amy Churchouse brings a refreshing blend of practical wisdom and deep curiosity to this conversation. Rather than searching for grand solutions, she invites us to slow down, observe, listen, and rediscover the simple human capacities that make genuine collaboration possible. Her "Pause, Observe, Feel, Listen" approach offers a grounded way of navigating complexity without becoming overwhelmed by it. Together we explore why the future will not be created through better ideas alone, but through our ability to pay deeper attention to ourselves, to each other, and to the wider systems we are part of. Amy reminds us that every person carries a unique life journey, and that true co-creation begins with curiosity, humility, and the willingness to see beyond our assumptions. It is a hopeful conversation about how small shifts in awareness can open entirely new possibilities for humanity's future. Amy is an experienced innovator with a passion for designing collaborative strategies for human thriving. With a natural ability to connect and a strong drive to help people facilitate positive experiences in their lives, she works with individuals, organisations and communities, empowering them to design solutions, overcome challenges and make connections that enable positive change. Amy’s passion for human connection and commitment to designing new approaches to challenges that are more accessible, efficient, and effective drove her in 2016 to start a Facebook group for her neighbours to connect and help each other solve their problems. The group was so impactful for people in her community that it started the Good Karma Effect movement of human connection which saw more than 60 Good Karma Networks started across 4 states of Australia, connecting over 150,000 people with their neighbours to help each other every day. The design of the groups empowered people to make a difference with whatever they had and the impacts were both significant far reaching. Good Karma Networks not only help to solve a huge range of individual problems but they also build relationships, change the way people think about each other and about solving problems, inspire compassion and action, save people time and money and reduce resource consumption, expenditure and wastage. Despite its multifactorial positive impact, systemic, cultural and technological challenges resulted in closure of the Good Karma Effect organisation in 2024, however Amy has continued on her quest to make things better, exploring the complexity and factors contributing to individual, collective and environmental challenges, which has brought her face to face with the metacrisis, and here with me today. Her work and writing invite people to pause and explore to see what else might be possible with greater awareness and a different perspective.https://goodkarmaeffect.com/Daniela Bomatter is a Swiss-born former software engineer and business leader who rose through various leadership positions to become CEO of SwissEnergy at the Federal Office of Energy in Switzerland. After a successful career in technology and public service, her life took a transformative turn through the encounter with spiritual teacher Andrew Cohen and his teaching of Evolutionary Enlightenment.As a co-founder of Manifest Nirvana, Daniela has been a senior practitioner of Evolutionary Enlightenment, living, studying, and working closely with Andrew Cohen from 2008 until his passing in March 2025. Her work continues to carry forward the essence of his vision—an awakening that is not separate from evolution itself.She now lives in Tiruvannamalai, India, where she founded and runs the Manifest Nirvana Ashram, a vibrant hub for spiritual practice, dialogue, and conscious community within a small sustainable village. In 2025, Daniela published her first book, The Viratya Myth Begins—a mythic-visionary narrative exploring the next step of human evolution through a fusion of story, philosophy, and consciousness inquiry.