First of Kind

How can being a playwright prepare one for designing social intelligence? Jason Yuan is the CEO and founder of Hivemind. A former Apple designer, he pioneered MercuryOS, an early vision of intent-based computing, then cofounded Dot, a personal AI companion with long-term narrative memory. He now sets off to build a second AI startup inspired by the Madonna song “Future Lovers.” In this conversation with Soleio, Jason explains why Hivemind runs on principles instead of rules, why every relationship is a story with shared authorship, and why his product motto is “for the plot.” Jason makes the case that the best products, like the best stories, are based on truth. A truth that is fundamentally plural. 00:00 Own Your Story, Do It True 00:49 Costumes, Stages, then World-Building 03:03 Hivemind in the Wild 08:42 From MercuryOS to Dot 13:20 Did You Make a Startup to Fix Yourself? 16:47 Every Relationship is a Story 19:35 The Graveyard Before Hivemind 22:25 Can Jason See Gotham? 28:13 Do It for The Plot! 29:13 Designing the Hivemind launch 32:48 The Information Market 34:45 Making Work That Feels True 41:02 Being Known Is the Most Wonderful Thing S3:E02 Jason Yuan: For the Plot Hosted by Soleio https://x.com/soleio @soleio Coproduced with Room 3: https://room3nyc.com @room3nyc Jason Yuan: https://x.com/jasonyuan First of Kind is powered by our sponsors: Framer – https://framer.com Noon – https://noon.design Grok Bot – https://x.ai/bot Ramp – https://ramp.com Vercel – https://vercel.com Granola – https://granola.ai Profound – https://tryprofound.com YouTube: https://youtube.com/@firstofkind 𝕏: https://x.com/firstofkind Threads: https://threads.com/firstofkind Instagram: https://instagram.com/firstofkind Website: https://firstofkind.com Hashtag: #FirstofKind

What can a dragon painted in a single stroke teach us about software? Guillermo Rauch is the founder and CEO of Vercel. Growing up in Argentina, he taught himself English in order to teach himself programming, then went on to create Socket.io and other foundational technology for the real-time web. Along the way, he developed a cunning designer’s eye that became the competitive advantage for what is now a multi-billion dollar venture. In this conversation with Soleio, Guillermo explains why he designed Vercel’s first command line in Sketch before writing any code, why layout shift erodes trust, and why his company won’t commit any “random acts of AI.” Guillermo makes the case for why he’s not just chief executive. He is also chief designer. 00:00 Human Effort Is Still Underrated 00:44 Chief Executive, Chief Designer 02:33 Two Bets: Software and English 05:15 Gmail Was My Siren Call 11:06 Exposure Hours 14:49 Layout Shift and the One Stroke Dragon 17:10 No Random Acts of Al 25:17 Can Agents Have Taste? 30:15 Software Factories and Agent Customers 34:59 Everything Is Communication 38:04 A New American Story 41:52 Lifemaxxing S3:E01 Guillermo Rauch: One Stroke Dragon Hosted by Soleio and produced by Room 3: https://room3nyc.com @room3nyc Guillermo Rauch: https://x.com/rauchg · https://rauchg.com First of Kind is powered by Framer: https://framer.com Noon: https://noon.design Grok Bot: https://x.ai/bot Ramp: https://ramp.com Vercel: https://vercel.com Granola: https://granola.ai Profound: https://tryprofound.com Website: https://firstofkind.com YouTube: https://youtube.com/@firstofkind 𝕏: https://x.com/firstofkind Threads: https://threads.com/firstofkind_ Instagram: https://instagram.com/firstofkind_ Hashtag: #FirstofKind

What do Anthropic, Facebook, Pinterest and Stripe all have in common? Everett Katigbak has played a foundational creative role at some of the most iconic brands in technology. His film work documents the stories of seminal figures who have shaped culture, such as his documentary projects on Stewart Brand and Luis Valdez. In this in-depth conversation at his beautiful San Francisco home, Everett describes the “golden thread” that weaves through his non-linear career path, the importance of humanizing infrastructure, and why he believes your side hustle is actually your “true form.” As of this recording, Everett has set out on his own to develop an independent creative practice. After years behind the camera, tech’s “brand guru” steps out in front of it. 00:00 Intro: “Your side hustle is your true form” 03:01 Making Facebook Feel Human 05:04 Getting Hired Because You Don’t Fit 08:10 Why San Francisco? Place Before Job 11:33 Analog Research Lab origins & mantras 13:35 Propaganda, Self-Talk, and Shaping Company Culture 16:32 Designing for Engagement vs. Meaning 17:18 Living in Contradictions: Anachronist Meets Futurist 19:27 How to Pick the Right Company (A Nose for What’s Next) 21:03 Expansion vs. Mastery: A Different Kind of Career Path 24:00 Going Independent 26:24 Inside Cursor as a “Cultural Sleuth” 28:49 Stories of Unseen Figures: Luis Valdez, Stewart Brand 32:00 Closing: Advice for Future Pioneers S2:E6 Everett Katigbak: Indie Streak Hosted by Soleio and produced by Room 3: room3nyc.com @room3nyc First of Kind is powered by our sponsors: Framer — framer.com Cursor — cursor.com Vercel — vercel.com Profound — tryprofound.com Website: firstofkind.com YouTube: youtube.com/@firstofkind 𝕏: x.com/firstofkind Threads: threads.com/firstofkind_ Instagram: instagram.com/firstofkind_ Hashtag: #FirstofKind

What if you designed a new class of vehicle from the ground up? Joseph Cohen first cofounded Universe, the mobile-first website builder, before turning his attention to the physical world. He and his brother Eddie Cohen now run Infinite Machine, an automotive company reimagining how people move through cities — not with cars, but with something entirely new, starting with the electric motorcycle. We met at Infinite Machine's headquarters in New York City, where Joe walked us through the design philosophy behind “non-car” vehicles, why electrification unlocks radical new form factors, and what it means to bet on autonomous people over autonomous cars. 00:00 – Intro: Color Outside the Lines 01:50 – A New Symbol for Freedom 05:52 – The Stolen Vespa 09:49 – The P1 vs. The Vision Pro 12:52 – Hard Modernism 17:26 – Painters Who Paint Factories 19:42 – Ten Times the Trips 23:33 – The Vespa Has No Engine 27:51 – Ask New Questions 32:00 – The Company as Medium 34:11 – Outro: What Memories Will You Make S2:E5 Joseph Cohen: Infinite Ride Hosted by Soleio and produced by Room 3: room3nyc.com @room3nyc First of Kind is powered by our sponsors: Framer — framer.com Cursor — cursor.com Vercel — vercel.com Profound — tryprofound.com Website: firstofkind.com YouTube: youtube.com/@firstofkind 𝕏: x.com/firstofkind Threads: threads.com/firstofkind_ Instagram: instagram.com/firstofkind_ Hashtag: #FirstofKind

When do you know to pivot or surrender? Koen Bok and Jorn van Dijk co-founded Framer, the web design platform that helps designers ship beautiful sites fast. 55% of YC companies run on it. Designers love it. But Framer almost didn't make it. What began as a high-fidelity prototyping tool born inside Facebook's design culture became—after a near-death pivot five years in—the premier site builder for designers who ship. Over drinks at the Lone Palm in San Francisco, Koen and Jorn recall what it took to step back from the brink of oblivion and chart a new course — for themselves and the field of digital design. 00:00 Intro: Lone Palm, Last Call 01:34 What is Framer Today? 02:39 Pick a Problem You Love 06:14 Three Interactions to Fifty 08:20 Rough Riding / Why VC is Good 11:38 Three Options Left 14:31 The Pivotal Lunch 20:46 Act III: Solving the Walkie-Talkie 29:08 Artistry meets Wall Street 32:20 Stay Weird, Keep Building Special thanks to Jane Seabrook and the Lone Palm team for permitting us to film the first ever video podcast at their storied bar. – Koen Bok & Jorn van Dijk: Framer Reloaded First of Kind, S2:E4 Hosted by Soleio and produced by Room 3: room3nyc.com First of Kind is powered by our sponsors: Framer — framer.com Cursor — cursor.com Vercel — vercel.com Profound — tryprofound.com Website: www.firstofkind.com 𝕏: x.com/firstofkind Threads: threads.com/firstofkind_ Instagram: instagram.com/firstofkind_ Hashtag: #FirstofKind

What can flying teach us about software design? Katie Dill has built world-class teams at three iconic companies—Stripe, Lyft and Airbnb—proving that thoughtful design can shape quality at industrial scale. In this conversation with Soleio, Katie describes her winding path into technology and how fields as disparate as architecture and aviation shape her approach to leading design at Stripe. 00:00 – Intro: It's All About Mileage 02:18 – What Flying Teaches You About Design 07:01 – From History to Design School 10:30 – The IDEO Moment 18:01 – Saying Yes to the Scary Thing 19:46 – The Chair Pullback 21:16 – The Gray Room at Airbnb 25:47 – Breaking Down the Ivory Tower 30:05 – Put In the Mileage 33:35 – Beauty Builds Trust 36:53 – Steam Gauges and Simple Systems 38:53 – The Best Checkout in the World Katie Dill: Quality Control First of Kind, S2:E3 Hosted by Soleio and produced by Room 3: room3nyc.com First of Kind is powered by our sponsors: Framer — framer.com Cursor — cursor.com Vercel — vercel.com Profound — tryprofound.com Website: www.firstofkind.com 𝕏: x.com/firstofkind_ Threads: threads.com/firstofkind_ Instagram: instagram.com/firstofkind_ Hashtag: #FirstofKind

What is the future of design in a post-AI world? Ryo Lu pioneered new patterns for collaboration as founding designer at Notion. He now leads design at Cursor, shaping how software gets built through a fusion of design and engineering. In this conversation with Soleio, he explains Cursor's approach to design and how the product will evolve to empower designers who build. 00:00 – Intro: The future of design 01:49 – What is design at Cursor? 02:50 – How the team actually works 04:46 – Generalists, Self-Starters, Ex-Founders 07:34 – Building Cursor inside Cursor 10:45 – The next level: Agents & Abstraction 13:48 – Pattern language 18:24 – A lingua franca for builders 20:34 – Baby Cursor 23:45 – The new shape of designer 26:10 – Does AI distribute or concentrate power? 29:43 – Why Cursor is the tool you should learn 30:54 – A new design philosophy 32:36 – Where the path leads S2:E2 Ryo Lu: The Way Hosted by Soleio and produced by Room 3 (www.room3nyc.com) First of Kind is powered by our sponsors: Framer: framer.com Cursor: cursor.com Vercel: vercel.com Profound: tryprofound.com Website: www.firstofkind.com Threads: threads.com/firstofkind_ Instagram: instagram.com/firstofkind_ X: x.com/firstofkind_ Hashtag: #FirstofKind

Why did Joe Gebbia go to Washington? I spoke with America’s first-ever Chief Design Officer last fall to find out. We met on the White House grounds to discuss his newly created role, the formation of @ndstudio, and how Joe plans to weave design into the frabic of U.S. federal government. 00:00 - Intro / Eisenhower Exec Office Bldg 01:34 - From Airbnb to Washington 04:39 - The Federal Retirement Problem 06:31 - The Mine in the Mountain 08:29 - Do Things That Don’t Scale 11:35 - The Julie Prototype 14:20 - Down to 60 Seconds 16:33 - Consumer-Grade Government 18:31 - Nixon’s Federal Beautification 20:22 - The National Design Studio 24:24 - Trust Through Design 27:43 - Building the Dream Team 31:22 - The Silicon Valley Coalition 35:33 - A Golden Age of Design Special thanks to Joe Gebbia and his team for making this conversation possible. S2:E1 Joe Gebbia, Designer-in-Chief Hosted by Soleio: x.com/soleio Produced by Room 3: room3nyc.com First of Kind is powered by our sponsors: Framer: framer.com Cursor: cursor.com Vercel: vercel.com Profound: tryprofound.com Website: www.firstofkind.com Threads: threads.com/firstofkind_ Instagram: instagram.com/firstofkind_ X: x.com/firstofkind_ Hashtag: #FirstofKind

Explore our Conversational Show Notes, brought to you by Granola.ai — https://notes.granola.ai/f/ee3b12a6-82bb-4662-940a-d4270871994a Thank you to our partners! Cursor — https://cursor.com Framer — https://framer.com Granola — https://granola.ai Linear — https://linear.app Perplexity — https://perplexity.com

Explore our Conversational Show Notes, brought to you by Granola.ai — https://notes.granola.ai/f/ee3b12a6-82bb-4662-940a-d4270871994a Thank you to our partners! Cursor — https://cursor.com Framer — https://framer.com Granola — https://granola.ai Linear — https://linear.app Perplexity — https://perplexity.com

Explore our Conversational Show Notes, brought to you by Granola.ai — https://notes.granola.ai/f/ee3b12a6-82bb-4662-940a-d4270871994a Thank you to our partners! Cursor — https://cursor.com Framer — https://framer.com Granola — https://granola.ai Linear — https://linear.app Perplexity — https://perplexity.com

Explore our Conversational Show Notes, brought to you by Granola.ai — https://notes.granola.ai/f/ee3b12a6-82bb-4662-940a-d4270871994a Thank you to our partners! Cursor — https://cursor.com Framer — https://framer.com Granola — https://granola.ai Linear — https://linear.app Perplexity — https://perplexity.com

Explore our Conversational Show Notes, brought to you by Granola.ai — https://notes.granola.ai/f/ee3b12a6-82bb-4662-940a-d4270871994a Thank you to our partners! Cursor — https://cursor.com Framer — https://framer.com Granola — https://granola.ai Linear — https://linear.app Perplexity — https://perplexity.com

Explore our Conversational Show Notes, brought to you by Granola.ai — https://notes.granola.ai/f/ee3b12a6-82bb-4662-940a-d4270871994a Thank you to our partners! Cursor — https://cursor.com Framer — https://framer.com Granola — https://granola.ai Linear — https://linear.app Perplexity — https://perplexity.com

Explore our Conversational Show Notes, brought to you by Granola.ai — https://notes.granola.ai/f/ee3b12a6-82bb-4662-940a-d4270871994a Thank you to our partners! Cursor — https://cursor.com Framer — https://framer.com Granola — https://granola.ai Linear — https://linear.app Perplexity — https://perplexity.com "Last winter in the dappled light of a redwood grove, I met @bryce for the first time in front of a camera..." reads the tweet from @soleio. At the conclusion of our conversation last winter in that dappled forest, I was struck by this new profile of founder he was describing. There were new tools opening new avenues for a creative to build and explore opportunities in entirely new ways. As someone who has an insatiable appetite for the new, this felt like a founder profile worth exploring. So when our three hour chat (edited down to about an hour) in the woods was winding down, we made a proposition — "Do you want to develop a show with us?" We left the question of format open, but the general idea of exploring the edges of designers as founders and builders was something we all got excited about digging into deeper. As we dug in, the ideas and format became clearer. And if you were to stop Soleio on the street, here’s the pitch for this series — This project came together around a simple question: Who are the designers in tech that are the first to pioneer a new way of doing things? What does that archetype look like in practice? In music, we have genre-defining artists. In software, we have first-of-kind designers. This is a show where we talk to the people pushing the frontiers of design into new directions and capabilities—whether at the helms of new businesses or as practitioners of a new craft. The series is called First of Kind, capturing the emergent and evolving nature these first of kind founders and creatives across a wide range of mediums. We let Soleio take the lead on guests, and nearly all six were his immediate ideas for dream conversations. We’re releasing them all at once, in their entireties, and plan to share a supercut of themes we saw across them once a week for the next month. Guests this season include: — Henry Modisett, Head of Design at Perplexity — Colin Dunn, Cofounder of Visual Electric — Jessica Hische, Cofounder of Studioworks — Julie Zhuo, Cofounder of Sundial — Nicholas Jitkoff, Cofounder of /dev/agents — Susan Kare, Design Icon This is all new for us. We’ve never done a series like this before. We’ve never collaborated with someone creatively like this before. And we’ve never had support from sponsors before. On all fronts, it's been a home run of an experience. These focused conversations were incredibly fun to facilitate. The guests were gracious, insightful, and have entered seamlessly into the world of indie. As for collaboration, we could not have hoped for a better partner in crime than Soleio. Given that our first meeting was recorded, it felt natural to continue building that friendship in front of, and behind, the lens. Seeing his creative process in action was both eye opening and inspiring. His ambition and cadence across all aspects of his life put a battery in all of our backs — a true First of Kind himself in so many ways. Building together over the last few months has been a tremendous privilege and honor. When we started this, our plan to was simply underwrite it as indie. But as word spread, companies we deeply admire offered their support as well. So, with much gratitude, we welcome Linear, Cursor, and Perplexity to the First of Kind family. Each has deep roots in the worlds we’re exploring here, and we’re incredibly grateful for their support. So, that’s First of Kind. I hope you enjoy watching and learning from these as much as we enjoyed making them.