Published by Debra Allcock Tyler and Peter Wanless
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Welcome to Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast! Our hosts, Debra Allcock Tyler (CEO, Directory of Social Change) and Peter Wanless (CEO, National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children) have a lot in common. They’re both charity CEOs, they share their birthday (same day, month and year, but not related!) and now, they are teaming up for a weekly podcast! Tune in as they chat about different topics, from their experiences as charity sector leaders, to politics, cricket and more!
Episode 77! Spain are World Cup champions, and the conspiracy theories have managed more attempts than Argentina did.Debra and Peter begin by reflecting on what football can teach us about winning, losing and leadership. From there, the conversation turns to why people cling to explanations even when the evidence points elsewhere, and how easily the madness of crowds can take hold.They also explore mistakes, psychological safety and the challenge of creating organisations where people genuinely feel able to speak honestly. Why do staff sometimes hide mistakes even when they know they will not be punished? And how can leaders tell whether their culture is truly open, rather than simply assuming it is?Finally, the discussion moves to Andy Burnham’s new government, devolution and the place of charities and civil society in a changing political landscape. With power shifting around the country, Debra and Peter ask whether this is a bold new chapter or whether, in the spirit of The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, the sector is still being treated like a small and largely overlooked planet.All this and more in Episode 77 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez
Episode 76! England's World Cup dream may have ended in the final minutes, but Debra and Peter's conversation about courage, leadership and speaking up couldn't be more timely.After reflecting on another emotional night of football (and Peter's hopes for Somerset's T20 campaign), they turn to a much more serious topic: the growing impact of polarisation on charities.Prompted by the Charity Commission's latest research and the tragic death of Ann Widdecombe, Debra and Peter discuss how increasing hostility in public life is affecting charities, from security costs and online abuse to the psychological impact on leaders and staff. Should charities continue speaking out when doing so carries personal risks? How can trustees better support their teams? And where should organisations draw the line when deciding whether to remain on platforms like X?With a new Prime Minister about to take office, they also share practical public affairs advice on building relationships across politics and why charities should always think beyond today's headlines.All this and more in Episode 76 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez
Episode 75! Debra and Peter are back, and this week, football may or may not be coming home, but Peter definitely isn’t, as he worries about his onions, potatoes and spinach from the heat of London.After a World Cup catch-up, including Spain, England, late-night football stress and Peter’s power cut drama, Debra and Peter turn to a much bigger question: what role does lived experience play in campaigning, charity work and justice?Prompted by the court case involving Prince Harry, Sir Elton John, Baroness Doreen Lawrence and others against Associated Newspapers, they explore the difference between emotion, storytelling and evidence. Charities are built on lived experience, compassion and a sense of justice, but what happens when those stories need to meet the much higher evidential bar of a courtroom?They also discuss democracy, citizens’ juries, Nigel Farage, political short-termism and the importance of context when people are asked to make decisions. And as the pace of public life keeps speeding up, Debra and Peter reflect on how charities can stay resilient, hold onto their values and provide stability when everything else feels like a bit of a hurly-burly.All this and more in Episode 75 of Debra and Peter are doing a Podcast!Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez
How much should we trust the people around us?This week, Debra and Peter explore one of the biggest challenges facing every leader: building a culture of trust while protecting organisations from the small number of people who abuse it.The conversation begins with two thought-provoking new books. Fresh from attending the launch of Caroline Slocock's Bad Government and How to Make It Better, Debra reflects on what makes government succeed or fail. Meanwhile, Peter shares insights from Baroness Beeban Kidron's Users, a compelling look at how Big Tech has reshaped our lives and why it's time to rethink who technology should really serve.From the inner workings of Whitehall to the influence of Silicon Valley, they discuss the lobbying tactics used by technology companies, why charities can find themselves played off against one another, and how well-intentioned organisations sometimes end up tackling the symptoms rather than the causes of society's biggest problems.Prompted by the shocking case of a fundraiser who faked references, fabricated funding applications and even pretended to have cancer, Debra shares an extraordinary story from her own career about an employee whose elaborate deception left an entire team feeling betrayed. Together, they ask whether experiences like these should make organisations more cautious, or whether trust should always remain the starting point.From there, Debra and Peter discuss flexible working, remote management and why performance should be judged by outcomes rather than hours. Should cameras always be on during meetings? Is curiosity a better management tool than suspicion? And how do you create an organisation where people feel trusted without making it easy for the wrong people to take advantage?Plus: Peter enjoys an unusually lucky week on the Eurostar, Debra confesses to judging strangers' phone conversations on trains, and we discover that even wearing an ID badge can become an unexpected act of rebellion. José, we're expecting to see yours at the next Zoom meeting... 👀Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez
It's hot. Very hot. Hot enough for Peter to resurrect a potentially lethal fan from the garage and for Arthur the dog to rack up a £380 vet bill after an unfortunate encounter with a bee.But the real sting this week comes from Westminster.With the Prime Minister stepping down and Andy Burnham looking increasingly likely to take over, Debra and Peter discuss leadership, ambition, succession and what happens when someone moves from running one part of the system to running the whole thing. Is the top job really the prize people think it is, or is it just the biggest poisoned chalice of them all?They explore why some leaders seem able to attract public support while others struggle to connect, whether charisma is overrated, and what leadership looks like when difficult decisions have to be made.The conversation also turns to what a change of Prime Minister could mean for charities. What happens to the government's relationship with civil society? Will the work already started on the Covenant survive a change in leadership? And how much influence does one individual really have on the relationship between government and the sector?Finally, Debra and Peter compare political succession with leadership transitions inside charities. From outgoing chief executives and incoming leaders to interim appointments, trustee behaviour and the challenges of handing over responsibility, they reflect on what makes a transition successful and why so many organisations get it wrong.Plus: the King of the North, the missing King of the West Country, leadership war stories, dangerous desk fans, and proof that Arthur remains one of the most expensive dogs in the charity sector.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez
This week begins in the garden, but it doesn't stay there for long.As Peter battles an endless supply of weeds and Debra reflects on the idea that a weed is simply a plant growing in the wrong place, the conversation quickly branches out into leadership, culture and the challenges facing charities today. Can underperformance sometimes be a sign that someone is simply in the wrong role? And is moving people on always a failure, or sometimes the kindest thing a leader can do?Fresh from speaking at the Mind Federation leadership conference, Debra explores the difference between being caring and being accountable. Together, she and Peter discuss psychological safety, safeguarding, difficult conversations and why healthy cultures require both compassion and clear expectations.The discussion then turns to Somerset Cricket's recent successes and the importance of learning from what goes right, not just what goes wrong. Why do organisations spend so much time analysing failure and so little time understanding success?And speaking of cricket, the pair tackle the controversy surrounding England captain Ben Stokes and the question at the heart of so many leadership debates: should leaders be held to a higher standard than everyone else? From accountability and role modelling to mental health and public expectations, it's a thoughtful conversation about what leadership really demands.Finally, they explore the increasingly complex role of lived experience in decision-making, following debate around the NSPCC's position on social media restrictions. How do organisations genuinely listen to the people they serve while still making difficult decisions? And why does disagreement so often get mistaken for not being heard?Plus: football fever, safeguarding lessons from cricket, leadership war stories, and proof that even weeds have something to teach us about people, performance and finding the right place to grow.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez
Episode 71 begins with a shocking confession: Debra has accidentally become a criminal.After unknowingly leaving Waitrose with two unpaid peppers and a piece of ginger, she spends the weekend wrestling with her conscience and preparing to hand herself in at customer services. Will Waitrose show mercy? Tune in next week for the verdict.Meanwhile, Peter enjoys a rather more glamorous weekend, attending the Test Match at Lord's, rubbing shoulders with cricket legends, politicians, and even The Rest Is History co-host Tom Holland. Peter may have met a podcasting superstar, but thankfully he still found time for us.The conversation then turns to leadership, resilience and what to do when things aren't going your way, whether you're running a charity, leading a cricket team, or simply trying to navigate difficult times.Debra and Peter also dive into some of the big debates currently taking place in fundraising and communications. Do the images people dislike actually raise the most money? Should charities prioritise local identity or national consistency? And does presenting people with facts and evidence ever really change their minds?Along the way they discuss Childline, the National Lottery Community Fund's latest changes, the challenge of balancing local and national priorities, and why organisations sometimes spend far too much time worrying about critics who were never going to be convinced in the first place.Plus: why RNLI's communications strategy remains a masterclass in staying true to your values, regardless of who is shouting at you.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez
Episode 70! Seventy episodes in, and somehow Debra and Peter still have plenty to talk about.This week, Peter's return to The West Wing sparks a fascinating conversation about leadership, integrity and the weight of public office. Is it simply one of the greatest TV dramas ever made, or does it remind us of a style of politics that feels increasingly rare?The conversation then turns to communications. From the Department for Education's Gemma Collins campaign to the challenge of promoting vocational education, Debra and Peter explore what makes a message land, who it's really aimed at, and why communications and policy need to work hand in hand.They also discuss the merger between The Felix Project and FareShare, using it as a springboard to explore charity brands, organisational identity and the balance between honouring the past and preparing for the future.Plus: why everyone seems to think they're a marketing expert, despite marketing and communications being professions that require actual qualifications and expertise. As Debra recalls from experience, few people can resist telling the comms team how to do their jobs. A timely reminder that José isn't just a pretty face, he also has a marketing degree.And finally, Bertie's unexpected rise through the ranks of Cameo stardom continues...If you've never watched The West Wing, this episode may convince you to give it a go.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez
After a short break, Debra and Peter are back and straight into some big conversations.Peter shares his experience attending a Downing Street discussion about banning under-16s from social media, and outlines his four-point plan for tackling online harms. From safety by design to stronger regulation and the idea of a UK eSafety Commissioner, they explore what meaningful action could actually look like, and why the issue affects adults just as much as children.The conversation then takes a more personal turn as they reflect on confidence, kindness and the extraordinary impact of appreciation. From leadership teams publicly recognising each other, to thanking supermarket staff and complimenting strangers on train platforms, Debra and Peter discuss why making people feel valued matters more than we often realise.And finally, they dive into governance, trust and leadership boundaries, sparked by the Peter Murrell and Nicola Sturgeon story. How should organisations handle close personal relationships at the top? What happens when favouritism creeps into leadership teams? And why is fairness so important in organisational culture?Plus: Somerset cricket updates, Bertie’s unexpected social media fame, and a memorable story about Christmas drinks lists gone badly wrong.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez
Episode 68! Debra and Peter are back with a slightly existential question: what exactly makes a podcast “proper”? Debra has been in a real studio, on a comfy sofa, being filmed properly, which of course raises absolutely no questions at all about the professionalism of this podcast.From there, they reflect on emotion, vulnerability and what it means to be seen, literally and figuratively, when you’re in a leadership role. There’s crying, self-image, human complexity, and a reminder that most people are simply trying their best.They also discuss the London Marathon and the huge sums raised for charity, while asking some thoughtful questions about participatory fundraising. Does it matter why people run, cycle, climb or sit in tubs of beans, as long as money is raised? And are big fundraising moments missing a chance to help the public better understand how charities really work?Finally, Debra and Peter return to Julia Unwin’s reflections on charities disagreeing respectfully. They explore protest, anti-semitism, contested causes, trans-inclusive charities, ideology, democracy and the difficult line between standing firmly for what you believe and staying open to those who think differently.All this, plus ducklings, jackdaws, Pantosaurus, cricket balls, abseiling and a very carefully managed ice bucket challenge.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez
Episode 67! Debra, Peter and their producer Justin (or should that be José 🤷♂️) are back after a couple of weeks away, after Debra briefly rebranded the show at the start, and there is plenty to catch up on.Peter shares the slightly surreal experience of watching his son Bertie become one of the faces of Channel 4’s Virgin Island, complete with bravery, honesty and, apparently, the need for good rizz.Then the conversation turns to philanthropy, privilege and big civil society gatherings, as Peter reflects on his time around the Skoll Conference and the Marmalade fringe events. Debra and Peter explore what these spaces can achieve, where their limits are, and why charity work often sits in that strange place between being proud of what people do and deeply ashamed that the work is needed at all.The main discussion dives into trustee recruitment, board diversity and who really gets invited into governance. Prompted by Dame Julia Unwin’s comments on how few trustees are recruited through open application, Debra and Peter unpack the habits, assumptions and practical challenges that shape charity boards. From tapping people on the shoulder to recruiting young trustees, refreshing boards without losing vital knowledge, and challenging assumptions about age, experience and expertise, this is a thoughtful conversation about what good governance really needs.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock TylerLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter WanlessLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.ukPodcast Producer: José Blazquez (aka Justin from now on)
Episode 66, and Debra is on one about four-day weeks. Quite right too, because this is one of those topics she could probably keep going on about all week (see what I did there?). This time, Debra and Peter get stuck into a big conversation about four-day working weeks, productivity, public sector stereotypes, and whether politicians are actually paying attention to the evidence. Debra makes the case with plenty of passion, Peter pushes back in all the right places, and between them they explore what really makes organisations work well: trust, flexibility, investment, and better leadership.They also talk about switching off, or not switching off, when you are in a senior role. Can leaders ever really go on holiday without thinking about work? What happens when your phone stops ruling your life? And if good leadership means building other leaders, what does that say about the people who think everything falls apart the second they step away?There is also the usual dash of cricket at the start, including Somerset being described as a model county club, which Peter is naturally very calm and understated about.No episode next week, because José is off to Poland for a swanky AI conference. Lucky sod. Apparently this podcast cannot function without him, which is both unfair and, sadly, completely true.And if you urgently need Peter during the break, do write to his cricket president email account, which appears to be the only inbox he actually checks. We do not, however, know what that email address is, so this may not be a flawless system.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez
Hello? Is that the government? … can we talk?Debra and Peter are back just as Easter arrives, and this week they take on a question that feels far too familiar: when government gathers the grown-ups in the room to tackle a national crisis, why is civil society still so often left outside the door?Starting with the latest response to oil price shocks, they explore why business is so often treated as a strategic partner while charities are seen as the people who arrive later to mop up the consequences. Drawing on lessons from COVID, local knowledge, fuel poverty, food insecurity and community resilience, they make the case that charities do not just respond to crisis. They help design better answers to it.Debra and Peter also get into the sector's own storytelling problem. Are charities still framed too often as worthy, gentle and grateful, rather than as essential contributors to the economy and society? And if government, business and civil society are all serving the same people, why are charities still fighting to be taken seriously as part of the solution?There is also a thoughtful discussion about the risks that come with funding and advocacy, prompted by debate in Scotland over whether government support makes charities less likely to criticise. It opens up a wider question about independence, influence and the vital role infrastructure bodies can play in speaking out when individual charities may feel too exposed to do so.And finally, in one of the most honest parts of the episode, Debra offers a message for charity leaders facing closure, burnout or impossible decisions: this is not a personal failure. Sometimes survival means stabilising, stopping, or recognising with pride what has already been achieved in a brutal environment.Sharp, frank, occasionally funny, and quietly determined as ever, this is a conversation about voice, value and not giving up.P.S. This is not a cricket podcast. Or is it?Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode!YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez
Episode 64! A slightly later release than usual as José may or may not have fallen asleep at the publishing wheel, but we are here. This week, Debra and Peter cover everything from leadership philosophy to celebrity status, with a brief but memorable detour into Peter’s unfolding duck saga.They begin with conference season reflections, including Debra’s trip to ACEVO and a closing keynote in Wimbledon that ended, rather unexpectedly, with requests for selfies. A true celebrity moment, even if one audience member’s verdict of "very entertaining" sparked a wider conversation about feedback, intent and the stories we tell ourselves about what people mean.From there, they get stuck into a big question for the charity sector: can someone who has led a smaller charity successfully lead a much larger one? Using comments made by Chris Sherwood as a springboard, Debra and Peter unpack the assumptions boards make about scale, turnover, staff teams and what leadership experience really counts. They reflect on what smaller charities do brilliantly, from swift decision-making to sheer resourcefulness, and why the sector still has a habit of undervaluing that experience.The conversation then widens into a broader challenge: how do we stop thinking in terms of big charities versus small charities and focus instead on common cause? There is a thoughtful discussion about collaboration, competition, hope and the danger of talking ourselves into scarcity. If charities are meant to be purveyors of hope, what happens when the sector starts losing faith in itself?They also explore visible and invisible leadership, asking whether charity leaders can become so self-effacing that they disappear from debates where their voice is needed most. Debra reflects candidly on being seen as someone who "takes up space", while Peter argues that visibility is not about ego, but about impact. As ever, the conclusion is pleasingly untidy: good leadership depends on the moment, the mission and the people in front of you.Also featured: potatoes, onions, ducks in emotional disarray, and the start of the cricket season.Send your questions to jblazquez@dsc.org.uk or comment below for the next episode.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José BlazquezQuestion for listeners: inspired by Debra’s leadership wisdom, what is the correct outfit for listening to this episode? Would you wear a bikini to a funeral or a suit to the beach, or something more podcast appropriate?
Episode 63! Peter is back from Panama and, thankfully, more or less back in the right time zone. Debra, meanwhile, shares her tried and tested approach to interrupted sleep: get up, stop worrying, and let a bit of K-drama do the heavy lifting.From there, the conversation moves swiftly from sleep habits to the very real reasons charity leaders can find themselves awake at 3am. Debra and Peter dig into the stress caused by late local authority funding decisions, short-term contracts, and the constant uncertainty that comes with trying to plan services when the money may or may not arrive at the very last minute.They also take a hard look at trust and foundation funding. Are some funders making life harder than it needs to be with slow processes, inflexible deadlines and systems that work better for themselves than for the charities applying? It is a frank discussion about burnout, redundancy risk and the human cost of poor funding practice.The conversation then turns to the covenant council and what it can realistically do for the sector. Debra and Peter reflect on representation, influence and why the covenant matters most when charities actually use it, rather than waiting for someone else to solve the problem for them.There is plenty of encouragement too. This episode is a reminder that persistence matters, that charities achieve more than they sometimes give themselves credit for, and that change really can happen when people keep pushing.Also featured: a guest appearance on Martin Drake’s podcast, Peter’s ongoing duckling watch, and Debra’s honest confession that she does not really listen to podcasts. Whether she reads these episode descriptions is, at this stage, entirely unconfirmed.Comment below or email us with your thoughts.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez
After two weeks away, Debra and Peter are back with plenty to catch up on. First, an important update for listeners who have been following the saga of Arthur the Basset Hound. Good news: Arthur has finally been discharged from the vet, the collar is off, and he is now charging around the house like an overexcited puppy again. Meanwhile in Peter's garden, the wildlife population is growing. What started as one pair of ducks, George and Mildred, has turned into two pairs wandering up and down the garden, plus an unexpectedly glamorous pheasant couple making regular appearances. Name suggestions for the second pair of ducks are very welcome. Once the animal updates are complete, the conversation turns to the charity sector. Debra shares her thoughts after reading Doughnut Economics and raises a big question: why do charities measure success by growth and size rather than by the impact they actually make? Debra and Peter explore whether income and expansion really tell us anything meaningful about success, or whether charities should focus much more clearly on the difference they make. They also discuss the government's emerging language around the "impact economy" and whether the term is actually helpful or simply confusing. The discussion then turns to the challenges facing small charities, prompted by news about changes to the small charities team at NCVO. If small charities are so vital to the sector, why is it so difficult to fund the organisations that support them? And what happens when the collective voice of small charities disappears? Finally, Peter reflects on the Channel 4 documentary Dirty Business and the wider debate about water companies, regulation and accountability. Who should be responsible for essential utilities and how should the public hold them to account? Plenty of big questions this week, alongside ducks, pheasants and a very energetic basset hound. YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnline More Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/ More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/ Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez
All good things come in threes… apparently.In Episode 61, Debra and Peter explore a trio of big themes, with a few bonus threes thrown in for good measure.First up: AI and identity. After asking ChatGPT for a character assessment, Peter shares the surprisingly flattering results. But can we trust tools that are designed to please us? The conversation ranges from chatbots and child safety to horoscopes, tarot cards and the psychology of confirmation bias. When does self reflection become self deception?Then leadership. How fixed should your style be? Should leaders adapt to the people they lead, or stand firm in who they are? Debra and Peter unpack values versus personality, the danger of labelling colleagues as “difficult”, and why excellence and empathy still matter, especially when times feel uncertain.Which brings us to global politics and wellbeing. After a staff survey revealed just how much world events are affecting people’s mental health, they discuss whether working in civil society means accepting discomfort, how to reconnect with purpose, and why persistence still overcomes resistance. Is progress really going backwards, or just taking a complicated route?Along the way, we count at least three notable trios: three weeks of Debra being housebound with her poorly pup, three of Peter’s charity roles that would make anyone else lie down in a dark room, and at least three celebratory shots in Blackpool with his brother. There may have been more.We are taking a short break, but do not worry, we will be back in less than three weeks with more debate, reflection and probably another unexpected tangent.YouTube Subscribe: YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez
Episode 60. Some people retire at 60. Others keep going until at least 67. And some of us, apparently, will still be producing this podcast well into our late 80s if the pension age keeps creeping up.This week, Debra and Peter start with life updates, including a worrying but heartfelt update on Arthur the Basset Hound, reflections on ageing, retirement, and Peter’s upcoming football-fuelled trip to Blackpool.The main conversation then turns to leadership and accountability. When something goes wrong, should the person at the top resign? Or is walking away sometimes a way of avoiding accountability rather than taking responsibility? Debra and Peter explore the crucial distinction between responsibility and culpability, the dangers of victim blaming, and why boards should focus less on individuals and more on culture, systems, processes, and risk appetite.They reflect on how risk aversion can damage leadership, why perfect leaders do not exist, and how charities can build resilience by not relying on heroic individuals. There is also a wider look at public trust, media pressure, and the unrealistic expectations placed on leaders, particularly in the charity sector.In the second half of the episode, Debra and Peter tackle the government proposal to require asylum seekers and refugees to volunteer. They discuss why compulsory volunteering undermines the very idea of volunteering, the risks of exploitation, safeguarding concerns, and the importance of protecting the independence of civil society. While both agree on the value of integration, belonging, and participation, they argue these goals must be supported through funding and collaboration, not conditions tied to immigration status.As ever, this is a thoughtful, lively, and honest conversation about leadership, power, and the role charities play when government policy falls short.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez
Episode 59!Debra and Peter are back with another wide ranging conversation, mixing life, leadership and some knotty charity sector issues.This week starts with travel tales, as Peter reports back from Dubai, including flooded Somerset rail lines and presenting to an international board. Debra shares a much more emotional update from home, as her beloved Arthur recovers from major surgery, complete with the cone of shame and a few sleepless nights.There is also a quietly heroic moment from Peter, who briefly believes he has lost someone else’s cat, only to discover a very large, very muddy feline marooned on the back step in the pouring rain.The conversation then turns to serious charity sector business. Debra and Peter discuss the risks of paying trustees, or trustee connected companies, for services, prompted by a Charity Commission compliance case. They explore conflicts of interest, why small charities are particularly exposed, and why “just because you can, doesn’t mean you should” remains a useful rule of thumb.They also unpack the realities of pro bono support, volunteers and procurement, including the dangers of false economies, being locked into suppliers, and the management burden that comes with offers that look too good to refuse.Later, a discussion about political news and leaked information leads into a deeper look at confidentiality, trustee behaviour and governance. What does confidentiality really mean in charities? When can trustees not keep things confidential? And how should boards handle sensitive information responsibly?The episode closes with reflections on leadership, values and performance. Debra and Peter debate fear versus empathy, managing high performers whose behaviour causes tension, and why respect, kindness and clarity matter just as much as results.As ever, expect thoughtful insight, strong opinions and a few laughs along the way.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez
Episode 58 sees Debra and Peter cover a lot of ground, from the practical realities of charity governance to some much bigger questions about leadership and ambition.Debra explains why board rehearsals have become one of the most valuable practices at DSC. From preparing staff to answer trustee questions with confidence, to creating the right space for honest discussion, they explore how preparation can strengthen governance without slipping into over-polish or control.The conversation then turns to ambition. Prompted by recent political manoeuvring, Debra and Peter ask whether ambition has become a dirty word in the charity sector. They unpack the difference between healthy and unhealthy ambition, why organisations need ambitious people, and how leaders can support individuals to fulfil their potential without trampling over others.Succession planning also comes under the spotlight. They challenge common assumptions about grooming the next chief executive, discuss talent development, bias, open recruitment, and why real succession planning is about building robust organisations rather than picking future leaders. Along the way, they draw lessons from politics, shared leadership models, and Abraham Lincoln’s approach to managing big egos with a clear sense of purpose.YouTube Subscribe: https://YouTube.com/@DSCOnlineMore Debra Allcock Tyler LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-allcock-tyler-8013214/More Peter Wanless LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sir-peter-wanless-b43aa372/Produced by: Directory of Social Change https://www.dsc.org.uk Podcast Producer: José Blazquez
