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Published by Forge
The Persuasion Game is a podcast about the marketing strategies, consumer insights and big ideas driving today's most interesting brands. Each episode, hosts Laura Halliday and Adam Rowles go behind the scenes with marketers and business leaders to unpack the brand, growth and category strategies shaping how companies connect with consumers and win in the modern age.
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“Brilliant leadership is acknowledging that you don't have all the answers, and the answers can come from anywhere and anyone.” In this episode of The Persuasion Game, Adam is once again joined by Elleanor Lloyd Malcolm, Forge’s Chief Growth Officer, to reflect further on the panel she hosted in Cannes about growth in transformative times. This time the focus is on leadership. What does it actually take to lead a brand through transformation, and how are some of the world's most ambitious marketing leaders showing up to do it? We hear from three exceptional leaders: Kathryn Swallow, Head of OTC at Haleon, Nicole German, Global CMO, Corporate & Institutional Banking at HSBC, and friend of the podcast Nathalia Amadeu, Global Brand Director for Vaseline at Unilever. They explore how the CMO role is evolving, how to go about building the marketing function’s credibility inside a business, and how surrendering control, and navigating ambiguity with confidence, can lead to exceptional results. This is part two of The Persuasion Game's Cannes special. If you haven't heard part one yet, you can find it by searching for ‘The Persuasion Game’ wherever you get your podcasts. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here This is an 18Sixty production for Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (04:51) From CMO to CGO (08:48) Authenticity Builds Trust (15:52) Leading Through Change (19:46) Female Leadership Reflections
“There is a new normal of pace and agility. Businesses are having to shift how they set themselves up to win in this very fast-moving world.” In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, Adam is joined by Eleanor Lloyd Malcolm, Forge’s Chief Growth Officer, to reflect on the panel she hosted in Cannes about growth in transformative times. We hear from three exceptional leaders: Kathryn Swallow, Head of OTC at Haleon, Nicole German, Global CMO, Corporate & Institutional Banking at HSBC, and friend of the podcast Nathalia Amadeu, Global Brand Director for Vaseline at Unilever. We tackle four themes under the banner of creating value in transformative times: why the fundamentals matter more than ever, how to create genuine consumer relevance beyond category convention, the shift from brand ownership to stewardship, and why the kind of cultural and consumer intimacy that truly drives competitive advantage is something no AI can replicate. This is part one or our reflections - part two, covering leadership in transformative times, is coming soon. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here This is an 18Sixty production for Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (05:46) Building Resilience (11:07) Creating Consumer Relevance (14:14) Differentiation Beyond Table Stakes (16:17) Stewardship Not Ownership (24:03) Global Ideas Local Heart
"Most organisations don't need more data. What they need is a wider, more dynamic view of where demand is forming. And they need to be looking in the right places to find it." In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, we're joined by Karl Miley, co-founder of Forge and leader of its Dynamic Demand practice. Karl has spent years helping some of the world's biggest brands understand where consumer demand is heading, and why so many of them are looking in the wrong direction. This episode is about why brand confidence in decision-making has never felt lower, how static demand frameworks are partly to blame, and why a new approach is needed. Karl takes us through four forces reshaping demand: cultural and behavioural shifts, the arrival of new entrants, technology-driven changes in discovery and behaviour, and macro shocks that rewrite consumer priorities overnight. If you work in identifying demand spaces, this episode isn’t to be missed. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here This is an 18Sixty production for Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (03:41) Signals Beyond Trackers (10:06) Stanley And Diet Coke (17:08) Spotting Early Signals (25:53) Olipop (39:50) Best Practice Dynamic System
“Transparency builds credibility. Hyper-transparency builds trust.” As Gen Z continue their inevitable march towards being the dominant economic power, the way brands market themselves is going to have to shift dramatically. As David Cousino puts it, for them “ transparency directly influences where they're going to spend. If companies don't get their head around this cohort, they're going to be in for a really rough couple of decades.” In this episode, David explains what is meant by hyper-transparency, why honesty increasingly beats perfection, and the crucial role insights teams have to play as we move into this new era. David is Global Head of Business Intelligence and Insight at James Hardie, and has previously held senior roles at AB InBev and Unilever. This topic isn’t one that can be kicked into the long grass any longer, it’s forecast Gen Z will surpass millennials in terms of spending power in less than a decade. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (03:23) Tech and Gen Z Shift (06:37) New Front Lines of Trust (13:38) Crisis Transparency Playbook (20:26) Insights Teams as Radar
“Relevance builds brands. Control just increases the risk of irrelevance.” In this episode of The Persuasion Game, we’re joined by Nathalia Amadeu, Global Brand Director at Vaseline, to explore how the 150-year-old brand is reinventing itself in the social-first era. It centres on the hugely successful Vaseline Verified campaign (winner of nine awards at the Cannes International Festival of Creativity, including a Titanium Lion). A campaign which, as Nathalia puts it - “challenged decades of brand control thinking.” With millions of people already sharing their own ways of using the product, instead of leading the conversation, Vaseline chose to listen. The result is a new model of brand building - one that validates, amplifies and co-creates with its community. That shift in approach is not just a campaign idea, it is also reshaping innovation, with new products, co-built with creators, in production. This is an inspiring, must-listen for anyone looking to grow a brand in a completely new way. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: forgemsq.com This is an 18Sixty production for Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (04:46) Stewardship Over Ownership (08:12) From Campaign To Products (20:19) Faster Feedback Loops (26:27) Eyebrow Hack Becomes Product (37:21) Principles For Participation
“The biggest thing that children show me is that there are no limits to what we can do.” In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, we’re taking inspiration from the creativity of children. Our guest is Sarah Horowitz, Marketing Director for the UK and Northern Europe at Crayola. Crayola is an incredibly well-established brand, and has been relevant in homes and schools for more than a century. We discuss how it’s maintaining and growing that position in a fast-changing world, how it puts creativity at the centre of everything it does, and the lessons all marketers can learn from the way children use its products. Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: https://forgemsq.com This is an 18Sixty production for Forge and MSQ. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (03:21) The Role of Adults in Children's Creativity (10:42) Understanding Gen Z and Gen Alpha (16:51) Creativity Across All Ages (26:23) Embracing a Child's Perspective
“You need an insights function that is really focused on being a catalyst for growth in an end-to-end way.” For many years, the insights industry has desired a ‘seat at the top table’, influencing decisions at the most senior levels of their organisations. There are few insights professionals as senior and influential to their businesses as our guest on this episode, Stephan Gans, Senior Vice President of Insights and Analytics at PepsiCo. Stephan shares the steps PepsiCo’s insights team has taken to move from order-taking to being a true catalyst for business growth, why our thirst for insights has never been greater, and the three critical roles he says insights teams must play in any future business. We also talk about the skills that will be most valuable in the future as we enable our insights functions with AI. This is a must-listen for anyone working in insights. Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (04:13) A Unified Approach (07:55) Balancing Short-term and Long-term Goals (14:12) The Role of AI in Insights (19:42) Future Skills for Insights Professionals
The tables have been turned in this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, as Adam and Laura get a taste of their own medicine in the hot seat. Izzie Macdonald, Global Cultural Insights Capability Lead at PepsiCo, takes on the role of host. Izzie has years of research and insights experience at Touchstone Partners and with almost a decade under her belt at Pepsi. Adam and Laura give their views on where marketing, strategy and insights might be heading in 2026, and the adaptations that will be needed to get us there. They also reveal their New Year resolutions, both professional and personal, for the year ahead. Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (02:08) Career Journeys in Marketing and Strategy (09:27) The Future of Agency Models (15:48) The Role of AI in Innovation (23:26) Importance of Context in Client Partnerships
Ambition is the watchword for The Marketing Society in 2026: “Ambition for our businesses, our careers and our country.” In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, we welcome Sophie Devonshire, CEO of The Marketing Society, for a conversation not to be missed by anyone working in marketing who has ambitions for a great year in 2026. We discuss the growing role of CMOs, why leading marketing teams is more like rugby than football, and why we all need to make more time for learning. Sophie also shares her views on why personal ambition isn’t about “killing yourself at work”, but should focus on how it fits in with the rest of your life goals. Sophie spent years working in marketing roles at Procter & Gamble, Coca Cola and agency side, before becoming a CEO and published author. Reading list: “Superfast, Lead at Speed” by Sophie Devonshire https://www.amazon.co.uk/Superfast-Lead-speed-Sophie-Devonshire/dp/1473661862 “Drive” by Dan Pink https://www.amazon.co.uk/Drive-Daniel-H-Pink/dp/184767769X “It's Not How Good You Are, It's How Good You Want to Be” by Paul Arden https://www.amazon.co.uk/Its-Not-How-Good-Want/dp/0714843377 "The Whole Marketer" by Abby Dixon https://www.amazon.co.uk/Whole-Marketer-successful-fulfilled-marketer/dp/1911671057 CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (01:01) Defining Ambition for 2026 (04:13) Global Perspectives on Ambition (09:57) Building Ambitious Foundations (14:20) The Role of Technology and Human Connection
“It might not necessarily be the most emotional response ad, but I think it will be one of the most effective.” In this festive episode of The Persuasion Game, Media Effectiveness Expert, Matt Stockbridge helps us unpick the effectiveness of the Christmas adverts in 2025. From John Lewis telling the story of a teenage son connecting with his father, to JD Sports’ user-generated clip sequences, major brands have taken different approaches in 2025. The question is: which will be most effective when it comes to sales? Matt is perfectly placed to help us answer that question, having previously worked on brands including Danone, Cadbury and Innocent. He talks about the need to grab people’s attention, the art of product placement and the power of generating an emotional response. From everyone at The Forge, Merry Christmas and see you in the New Year! CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (05:45) Sainsbury’s: https://youtu.be/QaF1my5h-Os?si=vb5FgcseZ56KCtWU (10:15) John Lewis: https://youtu.be/dc5S4IV_NeA?si=1MIyrA2xCBRvQnYl (18:49) Marks and Spencer: https://youtu.be/EWGYQL0KMoI?si=pCGDrAY8v4pDChZ4 (22:43) Waitrose: https://youtu.be/wWeYKBXmCRs?si=UZHjSlbrsMn4JVfv (24:09) JD Sports: https://youtu.be/aCsvYgOcXz4?si=vpGgsDLHkzWEtGGU
“Behavioural science is the most relevant field out there for a marketer. If you are in marketing, you are in the business of behaviour change.” Our guest on this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast is Richard Shotton, a behavioural science expert and author of The Choice Factory and Hacking the Human Mind. Richard shares some of the principles of behavioural science and how they can be used marketing teams to grow their brands. He has an incredible wealth of knowledge and enough real-world examples to fill a book (or three). Among them, how Monzo and Aperol use ‘social proof’, how Kraft understood the say-do gap and how ‘making it easy’ can transform a brand’s fortunes. Hacking the Human Mind: https://www.waterstones.com/book/hacking-the-human-mind/michaelaaron-flicker/richard-shotton/9781804091326 The Choice Factory & The Illusion of Choice https://www.astroten.co.uk/the-choice-factory Richard’s newsletter: https://astroten.us19.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=6ad73155a84f0c05285e72212&id=4a2da629fc Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (02:03) The Power of Making Things Easy (07:48) Social Proof and Its Impact (13:09) The Say-Do Gap (19:20) AI and Behavioural Science
“It’s about understanding what people actually want to engage with. 99% of people aren't interested in your brand for most of their waking lives.” Our guest on this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast is Chris Willingham, Chief Marketing Office at Brompton Bicycles. Chris has had a remarkable career, previously working on accounts including Playstation, Sony Electronics, and Cadbury. Now at the iconic Brompton, he is leading the company through a brand refresh, aimed at talking to a younger, more diverse, and more global audience. And it’s doing it by harnessing the love of the brand that exists among its current customer base. Chris says the ‘Life Unfolded’ campaign marks a shift from talking about the impressive engineering of the bikes and focussing instead on the customer benefits - something that resonates in most markets around the world. He talks about the power of emotions, being authentic, and his dream of manufacturing the first genuine Back to the Future style hoverboards. Brompton - Life Unfolded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqRybgafMBc Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (04:24) The Brompton Brand: A Global Perspective (07:54) Engaging the Brompton Community (12:15) Balancing Functional and Emotional Benefits (21:58) Urban Mobility and Future Innovations (23:56) The Power of Purpose
Our guest on this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast is Stephen White, Senior Vice President, North America at Diageo. He is an expert in transforming teams, brands, innovation pipelines and businesses and has spent years working in different markets, all around the world, doing just that. Stephen shares stories and learnings from across his 20+ years leading teams at Diageo including: brand turnarounds; managing global and local dynamics; and transforming underperforming teams. One example Stephen shares is how a short film starring Robert Carlyle helped reframe the iconic whisky brand Johnnie Walker “we spent the amount of money we would've spent on an external film, on an internal audience, we then subsequently had 9-10 years of consistent growth.” Johnnie Walker “The Man Who Walked Around the World”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZ6aiVg2qVk Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (03:00) Key Innovations at Diageo (09:32) Building Trust and Empathy (14:29) Breaking Down Organisational Silos (20:31) Leveraging AI and Future Trends
Our guest on this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast is Shafik Saba, Global Lead of Front End Innovation at Haleon. He says, when it comes to innovation, you need to obsess over your brand’s core. Far too often, marketers and innovators get distracted by new extensions to their brands, which stretch the brand too far and lead to disaster. Not enough innovation is focused on driving the business that brought success in the first place. Shafik shares his tips for striking the right balance between innovating your core and stretching into areas you authentically belong in. Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (02:22) From Automotive to Healthcare Innovation (11:55) Balancing Core and Expansion (22:16) Consumer Insights and Empathy (23:38) Shopability and Design
“The creator economy is worth about 250 billion right now. That's set to almost double in the next two years.” Our guest this week on The Persuasion Game podcast is an expert in one of the most exciting areas of marketing at the moment. Creator marketing is big business and there are huge opportunities for brands that get it right. But there are also potential pitfalls. Fiona Hughes has spent over 10 years leading creator marketing across some of PR’s biggest agencies. She shares some of her experience in an area that is seemingly only going to grow and grow. We discuss what makes a successful creator-brand collaboration, how new channels are opening up genuine two-way conversations between brands and their customers, and why you might need to check your risk appetite before diving in. Further Reading: Creator economy growth stats: Business Insider and Goldman Sachs Brand-direct deals are the largest source of income for creators: Goldman Sachs Case study: Edelman/Dove, Canada keep the grey: #KeepTheGrey | Edelman Case study: Edelman/Ajinomoto MSGs: Ajinomoto: #CancelPizza | Edelman Case study: Edelman/Hellman’s mayo hack: Hellmann's UK: Mayo Hack | Edelman Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (02:18) Understanding the Attention Economy (05:58) The Role of Creators in Brand Communication (11:25) Courting Controversy (15:15) In-house Content Creation (18:59) AI and Authenticity in Creator Marketing
“The frequency of shop has increased, but basket spend has decreased. So how do we make our brands stand out more?” It’s a conundrum being faced by just about every FMCG brand and finding the right solution is top of many marketers’ minds. In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, we’re turning to Sarah Dossett, European Portfolio Director at Mars, to see if we can find some answers. Sarah has years of experience working with brands such as Mars, Danone and Britvic, alongside retailers to win over shoppers. We discuss the impact of a changing shopper landscape, how the brand-retailer relationship is evolving, and why it’s increasingly crucial to build authentic emotional engagement with your brand. Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (04:22) Challenges and Strategies in Shopper Marketing (11:36) The Importance of Emotional Engagement (14:58) Category Management and Seasonal Strategies (22:02) Brand Experiences and Personalisation
AI is changing the world of insights, but just how much change are we likely to see, and what will the insights teams of tomorrow look like? In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, two AI marketing experts join us to offer their views on what is an ever-evolving landscape. What will AI mean for how insights are gathered and interpreted? What will it mean for where resources are directed? And, crucially, where do humans fit into all of this. As Nick puts it: ‘The whole industry is at a crossroads.’ The question is - where will it end up? Jonathan Williams is Founder of One Strategy Studio and Nick Graham, formerly of Mondelez and PepsiCo, is Founder of Vertemis. Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (02:43) The Shift from Data to Decision Making (05:37) AI's Transformative Potential (07:42) Challenges and Opportunities with AI (14:01) Adopting AI: Strategies and Pitfalls (22:50) Skills for the Future
“AI is fantastic, but we also really need to think about how we, as humans, thrive in a world that is AI-powered.” Anneke Quinn-de Jong is the perfect guest for this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, where we take a human-centric look at the world of Artificial Intelligence. It’s easy to be blown away by the technological advances that have been made, but where do people fit into the conversation? Anneke believes the way we work, live and learn is fundamentally changing, the question is: are we ready for the scale of change that’s seemingly heading our way? The conversation covers the impact AI is having on insights teams, how to get the most out of the technology, and what needs to be done to make sure the next generation of workers is ready for an AI-powered world. Anneke was the former head of Brand and CX Insight at Philips, and has since set up her own consultancy, AI & U, which helps companies and businesses adapt and thrive alongside AI. Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (01:51) Understanding AI and Generative AI (04:26) The Human Element in AI (09:32) AI as a Sparring Partner (14:34) Preparing Tomorrow’s Workforce for AI (18:32) Human-AI Collaboration Success Stories
Most of us have experience of some form of negotiation, but how do you go about persuading the other party round to your position? In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, we meet Dan Hughes, founder of the negotiation training consultancy Bridge Ability, to explore the art of negotiation. Dan has more than 20 years of experience training negotiators across industries - from Premier League football clubs to major corporations. We cover the common misconceptions that derail negotiations, why focusing on the other party's perspective is more powerful than any argument, and the art of preconditioning - setting the stage for success before the real negotiation begins. Dan also shares practical techniques for course-correcting when conversations go wrong and explains why listening beats talking every time. Learn more about Bridge Ability at bridge-ability.com Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (03:19) Power Dynamics in Negotiations (06:27) Cultural Influences on Negotiation (11:49) Common Negotiation Traps and Misconceptions (18:50) The Art of Preconditioning
We live in a world full of volatility and uncertainty, so how do insights teams at the biggest brands go about trying to predict the types of products we might be buying in the future? It’s no easy task and yet, Fenny Léautier, Global Senior Director of Consumer Insights in the Personal Health division at Philips, believes now is a “golden age” for insights teams. In this episode of The Persuasion Game podcast, she says it’s no longer about trying to predict the future, but instead it’s about understanding the drivers for future opportunities. Fenny talks about the evolving role of insights teams, the impact of generative AI on the work they do, and why the human-factor still has a major role to play. Further Reading: Shaping the future: seven questions to help make your next trends strategy project a success Episodes are released bi-weekly. Follow us on LinkedIn for updates. Subscribe to The Persuasion Game Newsletter on LinkedIn. Want to know more about us? Visit our website here: thisistheforge.com This is an 18Sixty production for The Forge. CHAPTERS: (00:00) Introduction (03:44) Shifting Dynamics in Health and Wellbeing (08:13) Exploring Emerging Needs and Future Opportunities (09:53) Mapping the Future with Generative AI (14:52) The Human Connection in Insights (16:43) Cross-Functional Collaboration and Leadership Commitment (19:28) Embracing Generative AI for Strategic Growth
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Observed September 12, 2026. Cached outside the daily freshness window; the positions keep the date they were taken on.
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