It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

Rob and Jonathan begin a two-part series on football fanzines with Daniel Gray, editor of Nutmeg, host of the When Saturday Comes podcast and author of the new book Fanzine: The Story of Football's Alternative Press . They each share how they got started: Rob with QPR's A Kick Up the R's, Jonathan with Sunderland's A Love Supreme and Daniel with Middlesbrough's Fly Me to the Moon. They explore how DIY, punk-influenced magazines gave a voice to supporters who were demonised in the 1980s. They look at how national titles like When Saturday Comes and Off the Ball, the Football Supporters' Association and London's Sports Pages bookshop built a sense of unity among fans. There are tales of lawsuits, angry chairmen, Brian Clough storming into a newsagent and Jonathan's run-in with the police at Southend. Finally, they reflect on how fanzines launched countless writing careers, including their own. 01:59 What Is a Fanzine? 04:04 Our First Fanzines 11:01 Giving Demonised Fans a Voice 12:57 A Million Copies Sold 16:47 Terrace Talk Begins in York 19:22 Police, Bans and Free Speech 22:53 Bradford and The City Gent 25:51 Foreshadowing Hillsborough 29:12 When Saturday Comes 32:10 Early Pioneers: The Shamrock and Foul 41:19 National Fanzines Unite Fans 43:04 Sports Pages 45:52 Arrested at Southend 48:23 Lawsuits and Angry Chairmen 50:54 A Launchpad for Writers Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper conclude their series on Arsène Wenger’s arrival in English football by focusing on his first full season at Arsenal (1997-98), when early doubts, draws, and a UEFA Cup exit gave way to a transformative run to the league and FA Cup double. They discuss how Wenger blended George Graham’s defensive core with signings like Petit and Overmars, and how his pioneering approach to nutrition, recovery, psychology, and scouting created a decisive late-season fitness edge—highlighted by the 1-0 win at Old Trafford that ignited a near-flawless finish. The episode relives the title-clinching 4-0 over Everton capped by Tony Adams’ iconic goal, reflects on Gary Neville’s view of the ’98 side as Arsenal’s toughest, and argues Wenger’s broader legacy in accelerating sports science, data, recruitment, and acceptance of foreign managers in the Premier League. 00:00 Wenger’s Defining Year 00:25 Setting the 97-98 Focus 02:14 New Signings Take Shape 03:28 Sizing Up the Rivals 05:48 Pints and Culture Clash 07:04 Sports Science Revolution 08:34 Psychology and Red to Blue 12:17 Scouting and Club Foundations 15:55 France Ascendant and Clairefontaine 19:28 Family Life and Early Stumbles 24:42 Neville on the 98 Arsenal 26:48 Bergkamp Magic and the Unbeaten Run 28:11 Relentless Run In 30:08 Old Trafford Turning Point 34:36 Title Clincher Everton 35:29 Adams and Bould Magic 38:40 Wenger Emotion Legacy 40:55 Cup Final Newcastle 45:05 World Cup Echoes 46:12 Changing English Football 51:27 Foreign Manager Boom 55:08 Wrap Up and Thanks Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their Arsène Wenger series by tracing how David Dein first bonded with Wenger—via an improvised London dinner party and charades—before maintaining contact through Monaco, Antibes meetings, and mailed Arsenal VHS tapes and faxes. They cover Wenger’s post-Monaco move to Nagoya Grampus Eight, early struggles and a key interpreter change, then a turnaround to major success, which Wenger credits for reshaping his coaching and lifestyle ideas. The episode explains how Arsenal’s board eventually traveled to Japan in 1996 to recruit him amid post-Rioch chaos, public skepticism (“Arsène Who?”), and a club culture marked by drinking and addiction revelations. They discuss early dietary and training changes, Wenger retaining the famed back line, and his first signings—Vieira, Garde, and Anelka—plus the November 1996 rumour storm and Arsenal’s strong finish that set up the 1997-98 squad. 00:00 Charades With Wenger 00:34 Podcast Setup And Mystery Match 02:40 Arsenal As Gentlemen Club 05:09 Dinner Party First Impression 10:29 Arsene For Arsenal Premonition 11:35 Dein Keeps In Touch 15:05 Bayern Offer And Sacking 17:05 Japan Move And Early Struggles 20:23 Interpreter Switch Turning Point 23:27 Nagoya Success And Lessons 25:18 Secret Japan Courtship 26:20 Rioch Sacked Chaos 28:05 Arsene Who Backlash 33:09 Dressing Room Crisis 36:31 Broccoli Diet Revolution 41:42 Vieira Proves Them Wrong 43:32 Rumors Tabloid Mob 48:12 Anelka Arrival Momentum 51:22 Cool Britannia Parallels 55:05 Wrap Up Next Episode Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their Arsène Wenger series by tracing his leap from youth coaching at Strasbourg to assistant work under Jean-Marc Guillet at Cannes, where his scouting and relentless workload stood out, before taking his first major job at Nancy with Aldo Platini as director. They discuss Wenger’s early innovations—psychologists, stretching, diet, massage and “invisible training”—and his severity, detail-obsession and frugality, alongside the loneliness and intensity he describes after defeats. Despite Nancy’s limited means and eventual relegation, Wenger earned the Monaco job in 1987, where the glamorous setting contrasted with his ascetic focus. With signings like Glenn Hoddle and Mark Hateley, he introduced advanced recovery and professionalism, won Ligue 1 in 1988, and later built teams featuring Claude Puel, while developing talents such as George Weah, Lilian Thuram and Emmanuel Petit, amid disillusionment about French football’s corruption. 00:00 Hoddle Meets Modern Training 00:47 Wenger Series Returns 01:37 Cannes Assistant Breakthrough 02:50 Motorway Scouting Story 04:08 Workaholic Coaching Routine 05:27 First Team Taste of Power 06:37 Nancy Job and Platini Link 08:03 Invisible Training Revolution 12:21 Youth Development and Frugality 15:09 Severity and Dark Obsession 19:49 Monaco Move and Glamour 23:23 Royals and Monaco Memories 25:46 Why Hoddle and Hateley Fit 26:54 Hateley Meets Wenger 27:46 Hoddle Hijacked From PSG 30:17 Training Revolution In Monaco 33:28 Beer Smoking And Culture Clash 34:46 Tactics And Touchline Temper 38:00 Monaco Glory And Marseille Shadow 43:17 Annie And Private Life 44:48 Weah Thuram Petit Talent Spotting 49:03 Highbury Encounter With Dein 52:31 Next Episode And Wrap Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper begin a four-part series marking 30 years since Arsène Wenger’s arrival at Arsenal, framing him—alongside David Dein—as a key catalyst for the Premier League’s shift toward foreign managers, multicultural squads, and modern nutrition and sports science. They trace Wenger’s roots in rural, war-scarred Alsace on the French-German border: his parents’ hard-working life, his father’s forced Nazi conscription, the Catholic village culture, and Wenger’s intense, self-aware obsession with football. The episode explores how he learned the game through unsupervised street football and bistro conversations, a serious illness at 14, and his desire to escape village life. Wenger’s breakthrough came at 19 after being spotted in a heavy defeat and joining Mutzig, leading to university studies in Strasbourg, a stint learning English in Cambridge, a squad role in Strasbourg’s 1979 title win, and an early move into coaching—already using a psychiatrist with youth players. 00:00 Wenger Obsession Intro 01:23 Why Wenger Changed England 03:41 Alsace War Shadow 07:30 Village Roots and Work Ethic 10:49 French Football Culture Explained 16:18 Street Football and Brother Guy 18:59 Faith Philosophy and Le Professor 24:32 Illness Growth and Escape 27:19 Bistro Lessons La Croix d'Or 28:53 Wine and Bistro Roots 29:37 Bar Talk and Escape 30:09 Football Dreams in Dittlingen 33:00 Mutzig Breakthrough 34:13 Max Hild Mentor 36:44 Dancing and Philosophy 39:55 University and Class Divide 42:10 Strasbourg Squad Years 43:29 Cambridge English Leap 46:47 Coaching Begins at Strasbourg 47:31 Total Football Influences 50:11 Holistic Coaching Mindset 51:30 Wrap Up and Next Episode Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson examine Kwame Nkrumah’s state-backed club Real Republicans and why it became widely unpopular despite winning trophies, after being created by taking top players from existing clubs without compensation and reinforcing regional and ethnic tensions, particularly in Ashanti. They track criticism in the Evening News and Ashanti Pioneer, Kotoko’s protests, and the club’s lack of public support even at its peak. The episode argues the project nonetheless helped the Black Stars by building cohesion, highlighted by a 3–3 draw with Real Madrid in 1962 and Ghana’s AFCON triumphs in 1963 and 1965 under C.K. Gyamfi, with key players drawn from Republicans. The discussion then links football to Nkrumah’s growing authoritarianism, economic strain from cocoa price swings, and his 1966 CIA-backed coup, after which Real Republicans were dissolved, while Ghana’s club and national successes continued briefly before declining with reduced state support. 00:00 Why Fans Reject Republicans 01:33 Nkrumah Builds a Model Club 05:09 Player Raids Spark Backlash 09:05 Trophies Without Love 16:32 Politics and Regional Resentment 21:34 Cocoa Prices and Ashanti Nationalism 25:41 Break and Reset 26:07 Golden Era for Black Stars 26:55 Real Madrid Draw and FIFA Fight 29:24 World Cup Qualifiers Reality Check 30:12 FIFA Spots Ghana 32:08 Real Republicans Core 33:18 Baba Yara Tragedy 34:00 1963 AFCON Triumph 36:03 Ethiopia Tangent 41:10 1965 AFCON Away Win 43:38 Ghana Legacy Debate 45:37 Nkrumah Turns Authoritarian 50:27 Coup Ends Era 51:37 Aftermath and Wrap Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson discuss how Kwame Nkrumah used football to build Ghana’s national identity and promote Pan-African unity after independence (1957) and becoming a republic (1960). They trace Ghana’s colonial background as the Gold Coast, Nkrumah’s education and political radicalization in London and the US, his leadership of the CPP, and the push to independence amid postwar unrest and cocoa blight riots. Nkrumah backed football as a tool for unity, sponsoring the Nkrumah Gold Cup and founding the African Club Championships (Osagyefo Cup), a precursor to today’s African Champions League. The episode then profiles Ghana star C.K. Gyamfi (“Magic Feet”), his rise through local clubs, a 1951 UK tour, and a breakthrough spell at Fortuna Düsseldorf in 1960 before returning to play for Ghana. 00:00 Nkrumah and Football Nationhood 03:04 Ghana Under Empire 04:53 Nkrumah Abroad and Ideas 06:38 London Debates and Mentors 12:33 Return and Rising Unrest 15:15 CPP and Road to Independence 18:43 Republic and Cult of Leader 20:05 Sport as National Unity 23:11 Pan African Tournaments Begin 25:30 Gold Cup Wins and Wider Wave 26:53 Osagyefo Cup Club Vision 27:13 Osagyefo Cup Origins 27:58 First African Club Final 28:17 Unity Through Football 30:01 Ghana Golden Era Focus 31:07 Meet CK Gyamfi 33:14 Early Life And Clubs 35:00 Mysterious Dwarves Tangent 38:41 Kotoko And UK Tour 41:55 Germany With Fortuna 48:06 Called Back To Ghana 49:31 Part One Wrap Up Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper conclude their three-part series on Kevin Keegan by tracing his managerial career and the idealism behind his “why not?” philosophy. They cover his post-playing retreat in Marbella, a 1991 roadside attack that sparked unfounded rumours, and his surprise return to rescue near-bankrupt Newcastle in 1992 despite having barely watched football. Keegan’s early chaos, promotion to the Premier League, and “entertainers” era are explored, including the Andy Cole sale and his famous address to angry fans. The episode revisits the 1995–96 title collapse, his exit amid Newcastle’s flotation plans, spells at Fulham and England, a steadier period at Manchester City, and a final, acrimonious Newcastle return under Mike Ashley, ending with reflections on his legacy and farewell tour. 00:00 Dreamers Welcome 01:39 Marbella Escape 02:49 Celebrity Golf Circuit 04:52 M25 Attack Rumors 08:10 Lightbulb Moment 09:34 Sir John Hall Calls 14:02 Return of the King 17:03 Unprepared New Boss 20:29 Great Escape Finale 22:13 Promotion Blueprint 24:53 Entertainers Era 26:32 Newcastle Goldfish Bowl 28:41 Keegan in the City 30:22 Keegan Tea Reception 32:14 Andy Cole Fallout 33:24 Calming The Mob 36:31 Title Charge Collapse 39:03 Shearer And Glory 41:43 Flotation Clash Exit 44:52 Fulham And England Call 47:24 Poisoned Chalice England 52:56 City Comeback Era 55:36 Third Newcastle Breakdown 58:54 Final Farewell Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue their Kevin Keegan series, following his 1977 move from Liverpool to Hamburg for a far higher salary and the difficult start marked by teammate resentment, managerial upheaval, a humiliating Super Cup loss at Anfield, and an eight-week ban after he struck a defender in a friendly at Lübeck. They chart his turnaround under Branko Zebec as Hamburg win the Bundesliga in 1978–79, Keegan becomes a German celebrity, learns the language, and wins the Ballon d’Or twice, before turning down Juventus and returning to England with an underwhelming Southampton spell and a breakdown with Lawrie McMenemy. The episode also covers Keegan’s burdened England captaincy amid missed World Cups, including a beating by Yugoslav police, threats in Belfast, Euro 1980, and injury-hit World Cup 1982, before his high-profile move to Second Division Newcastle, the lift he gives the city, and his retirement after a sobering FA Cup loss to Liverpool. 00:00 Keegan Cashes In 01:06 Hamburg Move Explained 01:39 The Bubble Perm Era 03:40 Frosty Dressing Room 06:36 Lübeck Punch Up 09:46 Backlash and Doubts 10:58 Turning Point Return 12:01 Zebec Sparks Revival 14:03 Pop Star in Germany 17:20 Ballon d'Or Debate 21:12 European Cup Heartbreak 23:14 Shock Southampton Switch 25:07 Saints Reality Check 27:22 Keegan Takes Criticism Personally 28:27 England Captain Burden 30:38 Poland Wembley Heartbreak 31:47 Belgrade Police Beating 34:20 Euro 1980 Chaos 35:38 Thatcher Photo Fallout 36:51 IRA Threats Belfast 40:28 World Cup 1982 Injury 43:50 Newcastle Homecoming Move 46:52 Robson Drops Keegan 49:31 Keegan Lifts Newcastle 55:12 Lawrenson Moment Retirement 55:54 Helicopter Farewell Wrap Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

*The full three-part series is available on Patreon now* Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pay tribute to Kevin Keegan, who died in July aged 75, reflecting on his rare charisma, self-awareness, and ability to connect with people, as well as his status as the only British player to win the Ballon d’Or twice. They trace his working-class upbringing in Armthorpe near Doncaster, his family’s mining and Labour roots, and formative influences like Sister Mary Oliver, who encouraged his football. The episode follows Keegan’s unlikely early path—rejected by Doncaster and Coventry, starting at Scunthorpe—through his move to Liverpool under Bill Shankly, where his fitness, motivation, and partnership with John Toshack helped drive major success, alongside growing fame via endorsements and Superstars. They end with Keegan’s decision to leave as Liverpool approach European glory. 00:00 Tribute to Keegan 01:09 Charisma and Kindness 06:19 Roots in Doncaster 09:14 Mining Heritage 15:22 School and Sweetheart 22:21 Rejected Then Spotted 24:28 Scunthorpe Breakthrough 28:18 Move to Liverpool 30:03 Negotiating His Worth 33:34 Late Arrival Debut 35:22 Toshack Partnership 35:47 Sweat Box Fitness 37:10 Telepathy Test Hoax 40:12 Shankly Mind Games 41:46 Celebrity Endorsements 47:26 Superstars Bike Crash 49:48 Trophies And Turning Point 54:44 Shankly Leaves Fallout 57:34 European Peak Exit Plan Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

The fourth and final episode in Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper's Total Football series explores Ajax’s remarkable success under Stefan Kovacs and the Netherlands’ unforgettable 1974 World Cup campaign. Kovacs inherited Rinus Michels’ European champions but allowed the side’s fluid, player-led style to evolve. Ajax continued to win major honours, including two European Cups, but growing player power and Johan Cruyff’s influence created tensions beneath the success. As internal divisions deepened, Kovacs left, Cruyff departed for Barcelona, and Ajax’s golden era began to unravel. Enter the 1974 World Cup. Despite a difficult qualification process and a squad shaped by rivalries, Michels and Cruyff assembled a side that thrilled the world. They swept past Argentina, overcame Brazil in a fiercely contested encounter, and brought Total Football to its global peak. But in the final against hosts West Germany, an early lead was not enough. Off-pitch distractions, overconfidence and German resilience contributed to a famous 2–1 defeat. The Dutch did not lift the World Cup, but their legacy was greater than a single trophy: Total Football transformed how the modern game is played. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In part three of our Total Football series, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper arrive at Ajax’s golden age. They explore Johan Cruyff’s development: the precocious teenager shaped by Ajax, Vic Buckingham and Rinus Michels; a player whose extraordinary understanding of space, timing and tactics made him the ultimate expression of individuality within a system. The episode unpicks how Ajax’s 4-3-3 worked in practice. Positional rotations, an aggressive offside trap, collective pressing and the instinctive relationships built through years of playing together. Jonathan also examines the uncomfortable questions around fitness, sports science and alleged stimulant use in the era, before charting Ajax’s first European Cup triumph in 1971 and the arrival of Ștefan Kovács after Michels’ departure for Barcelona. This is the story of how a brilliant group of players, led by Cruyff, turned a tactical idea into the most influential team in European football. You can listen to all the Total Football episodes early right now, here on Patreon. Enjoy. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

*You can listen to the full episode on our Patreon* Rob Draper hosts a bonus edition of It Was What It Was with Jamie Carragher stepping in to pay tribute to the late great Franco Baresi . Carragher explains why Baresi’s name is passed down through generations, calls him the greatest defender he’s ever seen, and hails Sacchi’s AC Milan as the greatest team until Guardiola’s Barcelona, with Baresi and Maldini central to a back four that revolutionised modern football through pressing, a high line and the shift away from the sweeper system. They discuss Baresi’s unique blend of sweeper elegance and aggressive defending in a back four, his extraordinary return from a knee injury for the 1994 World Cup final against Romario, and how his football brain overcame a lack of height. Carragher also shares meeting Baresi at a Milan derby and showing his signed Baresi shirts. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In part two of our Total Football series, Jonathan and Rob explore the ideas behind football’s great tactical revolution. From the structuralist architecture and social change of 1960s Amsterdam to Johan Cruyff’s place within a collective system, they trace how a new way of thinking shaped the Dutch game. But it's not all Ajax. Focus shifts to Rotterdam and Feyenoord: Ernst Happel’s 4-3-3, their landmark 1970 European Cup win, and the overlooked tactical breakthrough that helped pave the way for Ajax and Cruyff. Want to listen to the whole Total Football series now? Sign up to our Patreon for full access. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In the first episode of a new four-part series, Jonathan and Rob examine the origins of Total Football - and why it is far more than simply slick passing or players swapping positions. They explore the overlooked influence of English coach Vic Buckingham at Ajax, the role of Rinus Michels in shaping the philosophy, and the tactical shift from individual battles to coordinated systems. There's why Dutch football’s late professionalisation made it a laboratory for new ideas; how advances in fitness made pressing possible; and why similar thinking was developing simultaneously in Soviet football under Valeriy Lobanovskyi. This is the story of the conditions that made Total Football possible - before Johan Cruyff became its greatest expression. Rob and Jonathan will be back next week for part two. Sign up to our Patreon to get early-access to every episode right now. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by special guest Jordi Cruyff for the first episode in a new series on Total Football: its origins, its legacy, and one of its key architects, Johan Cruyff. Who better than Jordi to reflect on his father's footballing influences and legacy? Beginning with his upbringing in Amsterdam, the hardship that shaped his ambition, and the profound influence of Rinus Michels on his development, Jordi also shares personal insight into Johan’s personality: stubborn, curious, challenging and, of course, never afraid to go against the grain. The conversation explores Cruyff’s football philosophy in detail - his attacking mindset, positional ideas, emphasis on angles and intelligence, and refusal to compromise on style. Jordi also retells the story of being named Jordi in Franco-era Spain, a moment that captured his father’s defiant spirit and deep connection with Catalonia. Rob, Jonathan and Jordi look at Johan’s transformational impact on Barcelona, the 1992 European Cup, his influence on Pep Guardiola, and how Cruyff’s ideas continue to shape elite football - from La Masia to the modern Premier League. Rob and Jonathan will be back next week for a dive into the origins of Total Football itself; the first in a new four-part series. Sign up to our Patreon to get early-access to every episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In World Cup final week, we just had to ask Jonathan and Rob to decide on the best World Cup finals of all time - and they certainly delivered. From Uruguay in 1930 to Qatar in 2022, there's no better way to whet your appetite for Sunday evening than by taking a trip down memory lane with the guys. From the drama of that very first final in 1930, to the political tension and selection intrigue of Hungary’s defeat to Italy in 1938, they trace how the World Cup final quickly became a stage for far more than just football. Along the way they revisit the heartbreak of the 1950 Maracanazo, the tactical and cultural significance of West Germany’s win over the Netherlands in 1974, and the extraordinary scale of the 1954 Miracle of Bern, when Hungary’s great side were denied by West Germany. They also reflect on the modern classic of Argentina v France in 2022. Will we have another classic on our hands in 2026? 00:00 Uruguay 4–2 Argentina (1930) 17:45 West Germany 2–1 Netherlands (1974) 30:15 Uruguay 2–1 Brazil (1950) 40:55 Italy 4–2 Hungary (1938) 47:50 Argentina 3–3 France (2022) 54:55 West Germany 3–2 Hungary (1954) Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper pick their favourite World Cup quarterfinals while previewing the upcoming last-eight: Portugal’s 5–3 comeback against North Korea at Goodison Park in 1966, highlighting Eusébio’s peak display, disputed refereeing, and the enduring Middlesbrough bond with the North Korean team; Germany–Argentina in 2006 as a pivotal step in Klinsmann’s cultural and tactical reset with Löw, Lehmann’s sock note in the shootout, and debate over Pekerman’s substitutions; and Argentina–Netherlands in 2022, remembered amid Grant Wahl’s death, for Messi’s pass, a record 18 yellows, a late Weghorst equaliser from a worked free kick, and a combustible shootout and aftermath. Wilson also covers Italy–Spain in 1934 as Mussolini’s World Cup’s key test and Draper adds Italy–Brazil 1982 and France–Brazil 1986 as defining classics. 00:00 Quarterfinal Classics Setup 00:47 Portugal vs North Korea 1966 03:40 Goodison Shock and Comeback 08:32 Eusebio Takes Over 10:10 Legacy and Middlesbrough Bond 16:19 Germany vs Argentina 2006 17:20 Klinsmann Revolution Explained 23:27 Match Drama and Lehmann Note 26:11 Argentina vs Netherlands 2022 30:33 Battle of Lusail Chaos 34:48 Penalties And Tragedy 36:04 Mussolini World Cup Clash 41:41 Replay And Brutality 42:58 England Debate Sunderland Joke 44:43 Rossi Sinks Brazil 1982 49:50 Romance Dies Guardiola Inspired 51:57 France Brazil 1986 Classic 57:43 Shootout Controversy Carlos Story 01:00:31 Legacy And Wrap Up Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Throughout the World Cup Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are recording weekly live Q&As, exclusively for our Patreon subscribers. This week, all eyes were on England's win over DR Congo, sparking a debate on their reliance on Harry Kane. A worry, or a strength? There's a look at Marcelo Bielsa's Uruguay, a debate on what's happened to Germany, and so much more in this week's World Cup mailbag. Want in? Then all you need to do is head over to www.patreon.com/ItWas and sign up for £4.99 a month. That'll get you access to Rob and Jonathan's live Q&As and a whole host of bonus content, including: The World Cup Collection - dissecting every tournament since 1930. Retro Magazine Collection - flicking through the archives of classic football culture. Lots of bonus, one-off IWWIW specials. Plus, you'll become part of our growing IWWIW community on Patreon. Sign up today to hear the full episode - and we'll see you on Patreon. Thanks for listening! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

To listen to the full four-part series instantly, subscribe to our Patreon where listeners can enjoy ad-free listening, our World Cup Wednesdays, bonus editions and live Q&A episodes. Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson conclude their four-part series on England’s 1966 World Cup win, picking up from the semi-final against Portugal and Eusébio, where Alf Ramsey sticks with Geoff Hurst over the media-favoured Jimmy Greaves and England’s wingless 4-1-3-2 thrives, with Bobby Charlton scoring twice and Jack Charlton’s handball leading to a late penalty. They then set up the final against West Germany, including Ramsey’s instruction for Charlton to sit deeper and nullify Franz Beckenbauer, before revisiting a disjointed 4–2 match shaped by England’s direct play, West Germany’s controversial equaliser, Hurst’s debated goal off the bar, and his hat-trick. The episode also explores Ramsey’s vindication, England’s fitness and planning, and the broader cultural context of Swinging London, post-imperial Britain, and the night of celebrations after victory. 00:00 Doubting Ramsey 00:23 Series Setup 01:04 Semifinal Stakes 02:07 Bobby Charlton Anxiety 05:13 Greaves Or Hurst 07:12 Wingless Wonders Win 08:57 Charlton Double 11:44 Penalty Scare 12:50 Charlton Family Duty 14:53 1966 Life Off Pitch 17:47 Cinema And Trauma 20:13 Final Plan Mark Beckenbauer 22:20 Final Rewatch Context 24:03 Targeting Tilkowski 25:07 Final Goals Breakdown 26:26 German Equaliser Debate 28:13 Ramsey Team Talk Myth 29:26 Ramsey Mind Games 30:08 Fitness Wins Extra Time 30:34 Was It Over The Line 32:52 Pitch Invaders Fourth Goal 33:48 Hurst Becomes Immortal 35:01 Planning Versus Flair 36:52 Ramsey Vindicated 40:19 War Memory And Germany 43:05 Swinging London Soundtrack 45:19 Post Imperial Cool Britannia 50:48 Football Enters Mainstream 54:07 Night Of Celebration 57:05 Legacy And Farewell Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.