Published by The Law Practice Division
This podcast is brought to you by the Law Practice Division of the American Bar Association.
Listen on Apple PodcastsOn the Law Practice Today podcast, Terrell A. Turner, CPA speaks with David Arato, owner of Lexicon Legal Content, about law firm marketing and SEO as AI overviews and AI platforms reshape how clients find lawyers. Arato explains that while AI is a major shift, many fundamentals still apply: clean sites, valuable content, and omnichannel presence, with today’s emphasis on frequent, fresh, conversational content, technical elements like schema markup, and building authority through libraries of content, backlinks, and third-party mentions (including sources like Reddit). He notes that AI overviews now trigger for many legal searches, devaluing traditional #1 organic rankings and making AI citations critical for traffic and leads. He also defines common acronyms (SEO, AIO, GEO, AEO) and argues “zero-effort” AI content has “zero value,” warning of amplified misinformation and compliance risks. 00:00 AI Content Ranking Reality 00:20 Podcast Welcome Disclaimer 00:59 Meet David Arato 02:00 From Law School to SEO 04:05 Is AI a Seismic Shift 06:38 Winning AI Overviews 10:27 SEO Timelines and PR Signals 13:44 New SEO Acronyms Explained 15:19 Zero Effort Content Trap 19:55 Misinformation and Compliance Risks 20:37 Where to Find David 21:06 Final Wrap Up
In this episode of the Law Practice Today podcast features Chrissie Scelsi discussing how law applies to video games. Scelsi shares her background as an in-house attorney, co-editor and contributor to ABA publications on game development and intellectual property, former U.S. general counsel at Wargaming (World of Tanks), and her work at Universal Orlando on licensing and adapting The Last of Us into a Halloween Horror Nights haunted house. The conversation highlights the wide range of legal issues in gaming beyond IP—international operations, HR and office matters, esports contracts and rulebooks, data privacy, banking and anti-money laundering concerns, marketing and trend-based advertising, and uncertainty over laws aimed at online child safety and social media features. They also discuss ESRB ratings’ impact on content and advertising, right of publicity, and college football/NIL developments, and advice for young lawyers on networking and writing to break into the field. 00:00 ESRB And Ratings 00:22 Podcast Intro And Disclaimer 01:01 Meet Chrissie Scelsi 01:40 Her Path Into Game Law 02:53 Universal And Horror Nights 04:12 Beyond IP Global And Ops 07:00 Marketing Trends And Risk 08:20 New Regulations And Uncertainty 09:11 Live Service Bills And Layoffs 11:23 Breaking In Networking Writing 15:30 Esports And Litigation War Stories 17:44 Concerts In Games And Content Choices 21:06 Right Of Publicity And NIL 22:39 Books Resources And Wrap Up 23:52 Closing Credits
In this episode of the Law Practice Today podcast, Terrell A. Turner, CPA, discusses mental health and self-care in law firms with Adriana Buckingham, Esq, MSW, a Philadelphia-area attorney turned counselor who founded AB In-House Counseling. Buckingham explains how her experience as a litigator led her to seek support tailored to attorneys, prompting her to earn a social work degree while practicing law and then create counseling and coaching services for legal professionals through their employers. The conversation focuses on supporting associates and staff as a firm’s key resource, noting that healthier employees can improve productivity, retention, and client service. They discuss common challenges like time management, delegation, and saying yes to everything, and how reframing can help. Buckingham emphasizes strict confidentiality: firms pay for her time, not session substance. 00:00 Associates Matter Most 00:25 Podcast Intro Disclaimer 01:04 Mental Health Focus 01:54 Meet Adriana Buckingham 02:35 From Lawyer to Counselor 04:17 Balancing School and Practice 05:48 Which Career Feels Rewarding 08:01 Why Firms Should Support Staff 11:01 Common Associate Struggles 13:34 Coaching Not Crisis 15:57 How In-House Counseling Works 17:43 Contact and Closing
Recorded as a fireside chat at the ABA Law Practice Division Spring Meeting in San Diego, this special episode examines reports that Sullivan & Cromwell filed a brief containing nonexistent or inaccurate case citations and later apologized to opposing counsel and the court. Steve Embry, Jennifer Ellis, and Michael Eisenberg discuss why AI hallucinations continue to appear in legal filings despite widespread awareness of the risks. They point to ignored firm policies, time pressure, overreliance on confident-sounding AI outputs, and a lack of understanding of generative AI's limitations as key contributing factors. The discussion also explores how these failures relate to lawyers' ethical duties of competence, candor, and supervision. The speakers emphasize that legal citations should always be independently verified using traditional legal research tools—not AI—such as Shepardizing in Lexis or Westlaw. They also stress that proper training and experience are essential for recognizing unreliable AI-generated results. 00:00 – AI Hallucinations Hit BigLaw 00:37 – Show Intro and Disclaimer 01:16 – Sullivan & Cromwell Brief Fallout 02:19 – Why Lawyers Keep Getting Burned 04:19 – Competence Rules and Citation Checks 06:53 – Workflow Reality Check 08:55 – Training to Spot Hallucinations 10:45 – Verifying Citations Without AI Tools 12:55 – Closing Thoughts and Wrap-Up 13:02 – Podcast Outro and Resources
This Law Practice Podcast fireside chat with Alan Klevan, Jennifer Ellis, and Steve Embry discusses recent court responses to lawyers filing AI-hallucinated or fabricated citations, focusing on the Oregon appeals decision in Williams. The panel explains that the court emphasized Rule 3.3’s duty of candor to both the court and opposing counsel, criticizing the lawyer not only for including fabricated authorities but also for attempting a “quiet correction” without acknowledging the problem. They discuss growing judicial frustration, the likelihood of sanctions and disciplinary referrals, and examples of suspensions. The speakers stress that generative AI hallucinations are inherent, so lawyers must verify every citation by checking links and reading cases, use appropriate research tools, learn effective prompting techniques, and promptly disclose and remedy any errors rather than conceal them. 00:00 AI Hallucinations Intro 01:08 Fireside Chat Setup 02:42 Williams Case Breakdown 03:24 Candor Rule And Quiet Fix 05:21 Sanctions And Discipline 07:45 Protecting Public Trust 08:34 How To Prevent Hallucinations 10:14 Verification And Tooling Tips 11:57 Why AI Hallucinates 12:59 Wrap Up And Resources
In this Law Practice Podcast fireside chat on “Billing in the Age of AI,” host Jim Calloway is joined by Julie Bays, Director of the Management Assistance Program at the Oklahoma Bar Association, and Wendy Meadows, a family law attorney in Maryland and coaching consultant for small and solo law firms. Together, they discuss how AI is changing the way lawyers think about billing, value, and client communication. The conversation centers on the “efficiency paradox”: when AI helps lawyers complete certain tasks faster, how should that speed be reflected in the client’s bill? Wendy shares how her practice has shifted toward a hybrid billing model, using flat fees for document-based work like complaints and marital settlement agreements, while continuing to bill hourly for meetings, phone calls, and other client-facing work. Julie emphasizes that invoices should do more than request payment — they should help clients understand the value of the work performed. Even when AI makes legal work more efficient, lawyers still bring years of judgment, experience, and legal strategy to the final product. The panel also discusses the importance of clearly outlining billing structures in engagement agreements, continuing to track time even for flat-fee work, and setting limits when a matter exceeds the original scope. They also highlight the need for client disclosures around AI use, including warnings about placing attorney work product or confidential documents into public AI platforms. Finally, the conversation explores how AI-driven efficiency may help lawyers expand their ability to take on pro bono and low-bono work. Rather than viewing AI only as a billing challenge, the speakers frame it as an opportunity to improve access to justice, increase capacity, and encourage lawyers to adopt AI thoughtfully — one small step at a time. 00:00 Welcome and Overview 00:33 Show Disclaimer 01:12 Billing in the Age of AI 01:15 Meet the Panelists 01:35 Invoices as Value Proof 02:11 Hybrid Billing in Practice 03:35 Engagement Terms and Time Caps 04:24 AI Disclosures and Confidentiality 05:23 Efficiency and Access to Justice 06:22 Closing Takeaways 07:05 Outro and Resources
On the Law Practice Today podcast, host Terrell speaks with Betania Allo, an Argentinian lawyer with graduate studies in international relations (Harvard) and an LLM (Syracuse) who is finishing a doctor of engineering in cybersecurity analytics at George Washington. Allo describes her work at the intersection of law, policy, international security, and emerging technologies, including roles at the UN in New York and in Saudi Arabia on the NEOM smart-city project leading cybersecurity culture and awareness for thousands of employees and contractors. Now head of TMT, AI governance, and privacy at Legaltracks in Riyadh, she discusses bridging regulators and innovators, the human factor in cybersecurity, differences in global regulatory priorities, and practical advice for lawyers seeking international opportunities through study, networking, and conferences. 00:00 Networking Opens Doors 00:21 Podcast Welcome Disclaimer 01:00 Meet Betania Allo 01:58 From Argentina to Cybersecurity 04:27 Balancing PhD and Work 05:39 Law Degree as Passport 09:02 Cybersecurity Culture Worldwide 10:47 Saudi Vision and AI Policy 12:36 Finding Global Legal Roles 13:37 Conferences and Speaking Gigs 14:33 Bridging Lawyers and Engineers 16:17 Build Your Network 17:19 Where to Find Betania 17:44 Final Thanks and Outro
On the Law Practice Podcast, Terrell and guest Rachel Clar discuss whether AI is “breaking” the legal industry and how it is compressing the timeline for lawyers, especially women in Big Law, to become irreplaceable and reach income or equity partnership. Rachel, an attorney and founder of Interconnected Us, argues that protecting career trajectory increasingly requires building a book of business, noting a Major, Lindsey & Africa study showing average rainmaking gaps (men $3.9M vs women $2.4M) that affect compensation. She shares her trademarked BNRI framework: Branding (self-awareness and a clear niche beyond practice area), Networking (identifying where target clients and decision-makers gather, using AI and LinkedIn research), Rainmaking/relational selling (making the ask and handling rejection), and Influence (amplifying value and building internal allies for partnership). She also offers resources via LinkedIn and interconnectedus.com, including a legal conference cheat sheet. 00:00 AI Compresses Partnership 00:34 Is AI Breaking the Law 01:08 Meet Rachel Claire 02:25 Women Leadership Pressure 03:16 Origination Gap Numbers 04:18 Timeline Before AI 05:42 Dinner Party Advice 07:17 BNRI Branding First 08:50 Networking With AI 10:15 Relational Selling Ask 11:43 Influence Inside Firm 13:10 How To Connect 13:58 Free Conference Cheat Sheet 14:39 Why This Work Matters 16:50 Closing Thanks
On the Law Practice podcast, host Terrell Turner welcomes back Deb Feder, a former big law and in-house lawyer turned consultant, to discuss practical business development and client relationship strategies for lawyers. Feder explains her approach to business development as three parts: growing your network, nurturing relationships, and sharing expertise, emphasizing that it’s often overcomplicated and can be done in small daily actions. She encourages simple, human connections (starting with “hello”), asking better client-focused questions, and avoiding assumptions, such as making AI the center of every client conversation; instead, lawyers should gauge clients’ interest and use AI tools thoughtfully without sacrificing trust. Feder advises building habits early and shares quick examples like check-ins, follow-ups after conferences, and keeping topic lists, along with a monthly calendar of five-minute tasks available on her website. 00:00 Five Minute Business Development 00:23 Podcast Welcome and Disclaimer 01:01 Meet Deb Feder 01:33 From Lawyer to Consultant 03:11 Why Client Questions Matter 05:00 Business Development Basics 07:12 Stop Overcomplicating Networking 10:29 AI in Client Conversations 15:16 Build the Daily Habit 16:38 Five Minute Task Ideas 18:06 Resources and Wrap Up
On the Law Practice podcast, host Terrell interviews career coach and former attorney Dena Lefkowitz about navigating a legal career without burning out. Dena shares how, after over 20 years practicing law, she realized law school didn’t prepare lawyers for the business of law—networking, marketing, and sales—and that lawyers themselves must generate business. She describes feeling embarrassed after discovering that litigation was a poor fit for her personality and values, and warns against “doubling down” on past decisions when a role harms your health or life. Dena explains using values and the five-factor personality traits (openness, conscientiousness, extroversion/introversion, agreeableness, neuroticism) to evaluate fit, and discusses finding outlets or pivots when misaligned. She recounts a back injury that prompted a change to in-house counsel work aligned with her values, and highlights her book, "Winning in Your Own Court." 00:00 Lawyers Are Miserable 00:12 Podcast Intro Disclaimer 00:50 Meet Dena Lefkowitz 01:33 Two Things Law School Missed 02:23 Wrong Practice Area Realization 04:20 Embarrassment And Sunk Costs 06:17 Trapped By Lifestyle Choices 07:50 Values Driven Career Pivot 08:50 Big Five Personality Factors 10:32 Misalignment And Mental Health 13:00 Injury Forced A Change 14:24 Book Title And Key Laws 15:44 How To Contact Dena 16:15 Final Thanks And Outro
Live at the ABA TECHSHOW, host Terrell interviews Jay McAllister of Paragon Tech about how law firms should evaluate legal technology, especially AI, with a skeptical, results-driven approach. Jay explains that marketing hype often overstates capabilities, using software “integrations” as an example, where firms must check whether syncing is unidirectional or bidirectional. He ties vendor due diligence to lawyers’ duty of competence, urging firms to understand the benefits and risks of new tech and to ask what large language model powers a tool and, more importantly, what primary legal data sources it uses to reduce hallucinations. Jay describes Paragon’s “Leverage AI” framework, starting with identifying a firm’s limiting operational constraint, and shares a case where a custom GPT cut discovery chronology work from over an hour to five minutes with human verification. 00:00 Live From TECHSHOW 00:20 Meet Jay And Paragon 00:58 Why Stay Skeptical 01:24 Integration Claims Explained 02:57 Vendor Due Diligence 03:35 Ai Model Hype Check 05:59 Ask About Data Sources 08:45 Leverage AI Framework 09:14 Case Study Discovery Timeline 10:49 Human In The Loop 11:51 Pick The Right Tool 12:50 Show Floor Wrap Up 13:36 Closing Thanks
In this episode of the Law Practice Podcast, the host interviews Shawn L. Holahan about disaster planning for law firms, drawing on her experience as a New Orleans litigator displaced by Hurricane Katrina in 2005. Holahan explains how a simple laminated wallet card with key phone numbers helped him reconnect with her firm when power and communications failed, underscoring that low-tech tools can be critical when “the power’s out.” She outlines a practical disaster recovery approach centered on a low-tech critical information binder containing family and staff contact details, bank account information, and password references listed in a non-identifying way, plus guidance on posting calm, redundant client-facing messages with updated contact information. Holahan emphasizes that lawyers’ ethical obligations to clients are not suspended during disasters, and encourages broadening the definition of “disaster” beyond hurricanes. 00:00 Low Tech After Disaster 00:20 Meet Shawn L. Holahan 00:39 Katrina Changed Everything 01:34 The Laminated Card Lesson 03:20 Critical Info Binder Basics 04:26 Ethics Don't Pause 06:53 Client Communication Playbook 08:12 Why Attend TECHSHOW 09:37 Closing Thanks
In this episode of the Law Practice podcast, Terrell interviews Catherine Sanders Reach, a co-author of an ABA book on design thinking, about what it’s like to write and publish with the ABA. Catherine explains how the project began at ABA TECHSHOW, became a collaborative effort with multiple authors, and was assembled into a practical guide featuring real attorney stories and worksheets. She shares her writing workflow—outlining and research first, removing distractions by turning off email and phone, using music to focus, and relying on deadlines for motivation—plus tips on choosing the best time of day to work. Catherine describes the iterative editing process, including peer review, handling critical feedback, and refining organization to match how readers learn. She outlines a typical timeline of about a year and discusses her recent 900-page managing editor project and interest in a future book on project management for lawyers. 00:00 Focus Rituals 00:17 Podcast Intro Disclaimer 00:56 Meet Catherine Sanders Reach 01:15 Design Thinking Book Origin 02:44 Writing Workflow 04:03 Music For Focus 04:49 Editing And Peer Review 06:20 Feedback And Structure 09:00 Book Timeline And Delays 10:17 Future Book Ideas 11:19 Wrap Up And Publishing Tips 12:24 Outro And Subscribe
Live from ABA TECHSHOW 2026, the Law Practice podcast shares three perspectives on Jordan Furlong’s day-one keynote. Alan Klevan calls the talk motivating and terrifying, emphasizing that AI can act like a “3L” but cannot replace courtroom advocacy or the counselor role, and he urges firm-wide AI policies plus a residency-style training model for new lawyers amid emerging privilege and work-product questions. Ruby Powers highlights Furlong’s framework of civic, proficient, and human lawyers, connecting the civic role to community work and the rule-of-law theme, and raising concerns about law school graduates’ readiness and future needed proficiencies. Julie Bayes focuses on rapid AI-driven change, debates about apprenticeships, law school relevance, and eliminating the bar exam, and notes ongoing real-world ethics problems like hallucinated citations and sanctions, while encouraging lawyers to learn practical AI use and attend TECHSHOW 2027. 00:00 Keynote Recap Setup 00:24 Podcast Welcome Disclaimer 01:03 Alan First Reactions 04:19 Residency Model Idea 05:05 AI Policies And Privilege 07:19 TECHSHOW Community Wrap 08:00 Meet Ruby Powers 09:19 Civic Human Proficient Lawyer 11:05 Law School Readiness Gap 12:14 Why Attend Next Year 13:16 Meet Julie Bays 14:11 Rethinking Law School Bar 16:23 AI Adoption Ethics Reality 19:36 Conference Highlights Closing 20:24 Final Sign Off
This Law Practice Today podcast episode discusses legal ethics and privilege issues arising from clients’ and lawyers’ use of generative AI, featuring consultant and ethics attorney Jennifer Ellis. Ellis compares two February 10, 2026, bench rulings—United States v. Heppner (S.D.N.Y.) and Warner v. Barco (Michigan)—that reached opposite conclusions on whether a client’s AI interactions are discoverable, highlighting differences in judges’ approaches and understanding of AI privacy policies and training. She advises firms to warn clients via engagement agreement clauses about unclear privilege, discoverability risks, and billing impacts when clients send AI-generated materials. The conversation also covers widespread sanctions for AI-fabricated citations and misstated holdings, urging lawyers to take ethics training, promptly correct mistakes, and verify citations by reading cases using tools like law libraries or Google Scholar. 00:00 AI Fabrication Trouble 00:26 Show Intro Disclaimer 01:05 AI Privilege Cases 02:04 Guest Background 04:37 Heppner vs Warner 07:21 Privacy Policies Training 10:44 Client Warnings Clauses 15:34 Billing Value Added 20:49 Hallucinations Sanctions 26:02 Mitigating AI Risks 27:02 Warner Ruling Explained 28:08 Policies Resources Wrap 29:16 Final Thanks Outro
In this Law Practice Today podcast episode, recorded a week before ABA TECHSHOW, host Terrell interviews returning guest Alexander Paykin, a managing director of a commercial and real estate litigation/transactions firm and a leader on multiple bar and technology committees, including the ABA TECHSHOW planning. Paykin explains that legal tech choices are limited by category, so the key is identifying vendors that meet a firm’s needs, ethics, and security requirements and integrate with existing systems. He argues conferences like ABA TECHSHOW let lawyers quickly compare competing products, challenge vendor claims, and evaluate tools using their own scenarios rather than scripted demos. He shares examples of testing an automated process-service platform in a dummy case and benchmarking AI/legal research tools using questions whose answers are known, emphasizing training, prompt quality, and verifying outputs before relying on them. 00:00 Vendor Showdown Teaser 00:30 Podcast Intro Disclaimer 01:09 Meet Alex Tech Insider 03:08 Why Legal Tech Feels Small 05:29 Why Conferences Beat Demos 09:01 Tech Nutrition Label Checklist 12:31 AI Research Reality Check 15:18 Test Before You Trust 18:42 Don’t Buy the Scripted Demo 21:13 Wrap Up Links and Final TECHSHOW Pitch
In this episode of the Law Practice Podcast, host Terrell Turner interviews Steve Embry, former mass tort defense litigator, legal tech blogger at TechnoLaw Crossroads, Above the Law contributor, and past ABA Law Practice Division chair and ABA TECHSHOW leader, about navigating the overwhelming pace of legal technology—especially since ChatGPT’s rise in 2022. Steve emphasizes that firms often adopt AI out of fear of missing out, even though generative AI isn’t right for everyone, and urges lawyers to start by identifying specific practice problems and then selecting tools that fit their needs and practice area. He highlights ABA TECHSHOW's uniquely welcoming, lawyer-to-lawyer environment for learning what tools actually work, recommends asking vendors to explain products in practical terms, and suggests using generative AI to translate technical explanations into plain language. 00:00 AI FOMO In Law 01:04 Meet Steve Embry 01:42 Steve’s Legal Tech Journey 03:51 ABA TECHSHOW Roots 06:55 Information Overload Since ChatGPT 09:28 Start With The Problem 12:56 Avoid AI Hype Traps 14:54 How To Vet New Tools 16:55 Vendor Talk Vs Lawyer Reality 19:55 Ask For Plain English 21:54 Use AI To Simplify Jargon 22:26 Where To Find Steve 23:24 Closing And Wrap Up
On the Law Practice Today podcast, Wendy S. Meadows shares how her renewed focus on fitness and wellness in 2015 helped her break a burnout cycle, improve confidence and performance as a lawyer, and organically evolve into coaching and speaking on being a healthy lawyer. She discusses how the legal profession is increasingly embracing wellness at conferences, though many still struggle to implement habits. Wendy explains healthy lawyering as both mental and physical: protecting your mind by not starting the day with email or social media, intentionally deciding who you need to be for key moments, journaling, and moving your body daily, even in small increments. She describes building habits through gradual layers—exercise, nutrition changes, and personal development. Wendy also outlines her future: continuing family law through mediation, parent coordination, adoptions, and representing children, while scaling coaching via masterminds like her Gone Solo Mastermind and planning another book. 00:00 Coaching Without Quitting Law 00:27 Podcast Intro and Wellness Focus 01:50 Morning Routines and Workouts 03:27 Wendy’s Origin Story 05:54 Wellness in Legal Culture 07:53 Defining a Healthy Lawyer 10:51 Building Habits in Layers 13:16 Future Plans and Masterminds 15:13 Where to Find Wendy 15:59 Final Wrap Up
In this episode of the Law Practice Podcast, host Terrell Turner welcomes guest Marianne Talbot, a seasoned lawyer and coach with over 30 years of experience in the legal field. Marianne discusses her transformative journey from civil rights lawyer to entrepreneur and coach, sharing insights on how embracing one's unique, authentic self—what she calls the 'Punk Rock Principle'—can help lawyers thrive. Learn practical exercises to infuse energy and creativity into your life and career, and hear Marianne's personal stories and strategies for maintaining passion and joy in a demanding profession. Tune in for valuable tips on staying confident, standing out, and finding happiness in your legal practice. 00:00 Introduction: The Pressure of Perfection in Law 00:28 Welcome to the Law Practice Today Podcast 01:07 Meet Marianne Talbot: A Journey Through Law 03:16 Embracing the Messy: From Law to Coaching 06:47 The Punk Rock Principle: Exercises for Lawyers 18:17 Conclusion: Bringing Punk Rock Energy to Law
In this episode of the Law Practice Podcast, we are joined by Stephanie Everett, a lawyer turned business consultant for law firms. Stephanie discusses her extensive background in law and business, detailing her journey from starting her own practice to growing a team of 20. She shares her insights into the six-part framework for running a healthy and profitable law firm, which includes strategy, team management, client acquisition, systems and technology, financial health, and owner well-being. Stephanie also talks about the importance of understanding business numbers, leveraging technology like Word, and engaging in events such as the ABA TECHSHOW. Tune in to learn how to build a law firm that not only thrives but also aligns with your personal life goals. 00:00 Introduction: Understanding Your Business Numbers 01:01 Welcome to the Law Practice Podcast 01:26 Meet Stephanie Everett: From Lawyer to Business Owner 03:41 Building a Healthy Law Firm: Key Insights 05:12 The Six-Part Framework for a Healthy Law Firm 08:10 Deep Dive: Strategy and Business Model 10:19 Importance of a Healthy Team and Client Experience 11:15 Leveraging Technology and Ensuring Profits 12:35 Ensuring a Healthy Owner and Succession Planning 14:07 Revisiting Strategy and Planning for the Future 15:09 ABA TECHSHOW: Insights and Experiences 18:09 Connecting with Stephanie Everett 18:43 Conclusion and Farewell