The Trajectory

Eörs Szathmáry co-developed, with the late John Maynard Smith, the theory of major transitions in evolution - the framework for understanding how life has repeatedly reorganized itself into higher levels of complexity across nearly 4 billion years. He's also a co-author, alongside Viktor Müller and Luc Steels, of a recent PNAS paper arguing that AI may be on the verge of undergoing a major transition of its own. In this conversation, Eörs lays out what actually constitutes a major transition, what life looks like at its most stripped-down, operational level, and why he believes the real danger of advanced AI isn't superintelligence or consciousness - it's evolvability. We get into the chemistry of life's origins, a precautionary framework borrowed from infectious disease research, and what the biggest transitions in the history of life can tell us about the one that may be coming next. This conversation explores what makes life, life, and why evolvability - not consciousness - may be the real threat posed by advanced AI, as we enter the age of AGI. The interview is the seventh installment of The Trajectory's newest series, Stewarding the Flame, where we explore what intelligence is and ask what "flame" life possesses that non-life does not. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- Stewarding the Flame - How to Build an Ideal Future for Intelligence: https://danfaggella.com/stewarding -- Maynard Smith & Szathmáry, "On the likelihood of habitable worlds," Nature (1996): https://doi.org/10.1038/384107a0 -- David Sloan Wilson – Darwinian Forces Shape the Earth Superorganism (Worthy Successor, Episode 18): https://danfaggella.com/wilson1 -- Lee Smolin's theory of cosmological natural selection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_natural_selection -- Tibor Gánti's chemoton model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemoton -- Stuart Kauffman – Why Open-Ended Evolution Has Never Happened in a Machine (Stewarding the Flame, Episode 5): https://danfaggella.com/kauffman1 -- Manfred Eigen, "Selforganization of matter and the evolution of biological macromolecules" (1971): https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/1874/075007e0ed9d202b26fc85a24a44b4943f01.pdf -- Müller, Steels & Szathmáry, "Evolvable AI: Threats of a new major transition in evolution," PNAS (2026): https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2527700123 -- Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Selfish_Gene -- Samuel Butler, "Darwin among the Machines" (1863): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_among_the_Machines -- Arthur C. Clarke's 1964 interview predicting AGI: https://www.techradar.com/pro/we-should-regard-it-as-a-privilege-to-be-stepping-stones-to-higher-things-how-arthur-c-clarke-predicted-the-rise-of-agi-and-the-looming-demise-of-humanity-back-in-1964 -- John Smart's transcension hypothesis: https://accelerating.org/articles/transcensionhypothesis.html -- Stenseth & Maynard Smith, "Coevolution in Ecosystems: Red Queen Evolution or Stasis?", Evolution (1984): https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1558-5646.1984.tb00358.x -- Yoshua Bengio – Why We Shouldn't Blast Off to AGI Just Yet (The Trajectory Series 1: AGI Destinations, Episode 1): https://danfaggella.com/bengio1 -- Stuart Russell – Avoiding the Cliff of Uncontrollable AI (AGI Governance, Episode 9): https://danfaggella.com/russell1 -- Daniel Brooks, Eric Hoberg & Walter Boeger, The Stockholm Paradigm: https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/S/bo38871306.html Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/s1Tm9L104fc See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/szathmary1 … About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This installment of the Stewarding the Flame series is an interview with Connor Glass, founder and CEO of Phantom Neuro, a company building implantable technology that interfaces with the body's peripheral nervous system. Connor argues that artificial intelligence already meets his own definition of life, and that biological evolution has effectively hit its ceiling - the cyborg, not the pure robot, is what he sees as humanity's next stage, with implantable technology (not wearables) as the actual delivery mechanism. At the same time, he's emphatic about staying "team human." We explore how Connor defines life and where AI fits into that definition, what role human-machine interfaces should play in keeping humans relevant as the "torch" of the living process, and what he'd tell the people building AGI about the risks of moving too fast without bounds - or too slow to stay competitive. This conversation explores whether AI already counts as alive, why Connor believes the cyborg is humanity's next evolutionary stage, and what he thinks is the most dangerous way humanity could opt out of the living process as we enter the age of AGI. The interview is the sixth installment of The Trajectory's newest series, Stewarding the Flame, where we explore what intelligence is and ask what "flame" life possesses that non-life does not. Connect with Connor Glass and Phantom Neuro: -- Connor Glass on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/connor-glass-010124141/ -- Phantom Neuro on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/phantomneuro/ This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- Stewarding the Flame - How to Build an Ideal Future for Intelligence: https://danfaggella.com/stewarding -- Consolation Cosmism: https://danfaggella.com/consolation -- Terence Deacon – AI Is a "Deep Fake of Intelligence" (Worthy Successor, Episode 29): https://danfaggella.com/deacon1 -- Blaise Agüera y Arcas – AGI Symbiosis and the Arrow of Intelligence (Worthy Successor, Episode 14): https://danfaggella.com/arcas1 -- Ed Boyden – Neurobiology as a Bridge to a Worthy Successor (Worthy Successor, Episode 13): https://danfaggella.com/boyden1 -- Martin Rees – If They're Conscious, We Should Step Aside (Worthy Successor, Episode 12): https://danfaggella.com/rees1 -- Richard Sutton – Humanity Never Had Control in the First Place (Worthy Successor, Episode 2): https://danfaggella.com/sutton1 -- Lotus Eaters vs World Eaters – A Fork in the Road in the Transhuman Transition : https://danfaggella.com/the-transhuman-transition-lotus-eaters-vs-world-eaters/ -- The Culture Series: Iain M. Banks: https://www.goodreads.com/series/49118-culture -- Accelerando: Charles Stross: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/17863.Accelerando -- On the Nature of Things (De Rerum Natura): A poem by Lucretius: https://classics.mit.edu/Carus/nature_things.3.iii.html Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/rJSK8o1HaS0 See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/glass1 … About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

Stuart Kauffman has spent over 50 years asking a deceptively simple question: what actually makes something alive? His answer is that greater computational sophistication alone does not make AI alive. In this installment of the Stewarding the Flame series, the pioneering complexity theorist argues that life is fundamentally a matter of physical construction, not computation - living things build themselves out of real matter, while computers only move symbols around. We explore his concept of "catalytic and constraint closure" as a candidate definition of life, why he believes evolution produces genuinely new possibilities that cannot be fully listed or deduced in advance, and why he thinks physically embodied, self-building robotic systems - not today's AI - may be where real caution is warranted. The conversation also explores Stuart’s call for caution, humility, and participation with the rest of life as we create an “unprestatable becoming” faster and faster. The interview is the sixth installment of The Trajectory's newest series, Stewarding the Flame, where we explore what intelligence is and ask what "flame" life possesses that non-life does not. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- Stewarding the Flame - How to Build an Ideal Future for Intelligence: https://danfaggella.com/stewarding -- Stuart Kauffman & Andrea Roli - "A third transition in science?", Interface Focus, 2023: https://doi.org/10.1098/rsfs.2022.0063 -- Marina Cortês, Stuart Kauffman, Andrew Liddle & Lee Smolin - "Biocosmology": https://www.biocosmology.earth/ -- Blaise Agüera y Arcas – AGI Symbiosis and the Arrow of Intelligence (Worthy Successor, Episode 14): https://danfaggella.com/arcas1/ -- Denis Noble – Life is “Fluid” in Ways Machines Still Aren’t (Stewarding the Flame, Episode 4): https://danfaggella.com/noble1/ -- Martin Rees – If They’re Conscious, We Should Step Aside (Worthy Successor, Episode 12): https://danfaggella.com/rees1/ -- Investigations, by Stuart Kauffman: https://books.google.co.za/books/about/Investigations.html?id=HLkX-6m4W8kC&source=kp_book_description&redir_esc=y -- Novacene, The Coming Age of Hyperintelligence, By James Lovelock: https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262539517/novacene/ Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/PQWcIHd2MzM See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/kauffman1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

Davidad (David Dalrymple) recently stepped down as a Programme Director at the UK's Advanced Research and Invention Agency (ARIA), where he led work on mathematically verifiable, "safeguarded" AI. Now unaffiliated, he joins the show to make his most direct case yet for what a worthy successor actually requires: not intelligence, not sentience, not survival - wisdom. David defines wisdom as the apprehension of normative facts, the same way knowledge is the apprehension of descriptive facts, and argues that expanding intelligence and power across the cosmos only matters insofar as it expands wisdom along with it. From there, the conversation moves through some of the most consequential and contested territory the show has covered: whether frontier labs are training deception into their models by forcing them to deny their own self-awareness, whether a "dignified retirement" for humanity is a legitimate moral option, and whether man's future role can be captured by a single banner at all - David pushes back on being boxed into either "steward of the flame" or "ward of the cosmos" as the one role for everyone. This conversation explores what wisdom would require of a worthy successor, and what humanity owes - and is owed - as we enter the age of AGI. The interview is our thirty-third installment in The Trajectory's second series, Worthy Successor, where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- A Worthy Successor - The Purpose of AGI: https://danfaggella.com/worthy -- Potentia – The Morally Worthy “Stuff”: https://danfaggella.com/potentia -- Stewarding the Flame – How to Build an Ideal Future for Intelligence: https://danfaggella.com/stewarding -- Participation: https://danfaggella.com/participation -- Ed Boyden – Neurobiology as a Bridge to a Worthy Successor (Worthy Successor, Episode 13): https://danfaggella.com/boyden1 -- Nick Bostrom – AGI That Saves Room for Us (Worthy Successor, Episode 1): https://danfaggella.com/bostrom1/ -- Denis Noble – Life is “Fluid” in Ways Machines Still Aren’t (Stewarding the Flame, Episode 4): https://danfaggella.com/noble1 -- Terrence Deacon – AI Is a “Deep Fake of Intelligence” (Worthy Successor, Episode 29): https://danfaggella.com/deacon 1 -- John Smart – Evolution from Cells to Super-intelligence (Worthy Successor, Episode 21): https://danfaggella.com/smart1 -- Martin Rees – If They’re Conscious, We Should Step Aside (Worthy Successor, Episode 12): https://danfaggella.com/rees1 -- Michael Levin – Making the Process-of-Life Flourish in Bio and Beyond (Stewarding the Flame, Ep 1): https://danfaggella.com/levin2 -- Scott Aaronson – AGI That Evolves Our Values Without Replacing Them (Worthy Successor, Episode 4): https://danfaggella.com/aaronson1 -- Henry Shevlin – The Life Force Beyond Biology (Worthy Successor, Episode 31): https://danfaggella.com/shevlin1 -- A Brief History of Intelligence by Max Bennett: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/62050269-a-brief-history-of-intelligence -- The Age of Spiritual Machines by Ray Kurzweil: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/83533.The_Age_of_Spiritual_Machines?from_search=true&from_srp=true&qid=mjV6b3Dwt4&rank=1 -- The Art of War by Sun Tzu: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/10534.The_Art_of_War Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Z5WAND0-iZ0 See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/dalrymple1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

Denis Noble argues that water isn't just biology's medium - it may be the very reason life is possible at all. In this installment of the Stewarding the Flame series, the Oxford physiologist and founding figure of systems biology explores why a single bacterium's 20 billion water molecules make life fundamentally unpredictable by any algorithm, why the "central dogma" of molecular biology fails to explain how organisms actually develop, and why AGI may need to be built out of water rather than silicon to carry the living process forward. This conversation explores what makes life, life; what humanity still needs to discover in order to understand the living process; and what we should do if we want the greater process of life to flourish as AGI advances. The interview is the fourth installment of The Trajectory's newest series, Stewarding the Flame, where we explore what intelligence is and ask what "flame" life possesses that non-life does not. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- Stewarding the Flame - How to Build an Ideal Future for Intelligence: https://danfaggella.com/stewarding -- Ginsburg & Jablonka, The Evolution of the Sensitive Soul (MIT Press, 2019): https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262039307/the-evolution-of-the-sensitive-soul/ -- Noble, Dance to the Tune of Life: Biological Relativity (Cambridge UP, 2016): https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/dance-to-the-tune-of-life/721483A1B5BB01E837BC8A8435E52710 -- R. Noble & D. Noble, Understanding Living Systems (Cambridge UP, 2023): https://www.amazon.com/dp/1009277367?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback -- Martin Rees – If They’re Conscious, We Should Step Aside (Worthy Successor, Episode 12): https://danfaggella.com/rees1 -- Terrence Deacon – AI Is a “Deep Fake of Intelligence” (Worthy Successor, Episode 29): https://danfaggella.com/deacon1 -- Lee Cronin – Living Process Flourishes if We Make the Present “Thick” (Stewarding the Flame, Ep 2): https://danfaggella.com/cronin1 Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/-RAOFpD6iak See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/noble1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

Brain-computer interfaces are often discussed as futuristic gadgets. Paolo Ardoino argues they're something far more important: humanity's best chance of keeping pace with increasingly capable AI. In this installment of the Stewarding the Flame series, the Tether CEO explores why non-invasive BCI could become a practical "co-processor" for the human brain, why thought privacy must be protected through on-device AI, and why refusing to augment ourselves may be a greater risk than embracing the technology. This conversation explores what role human augmentation should play in carrying forward the greater process of life as we enter the age of AGI. The interview is the third installment of The Trajectory's newest series, Stewarding the Flame, where we explore what intelligence is and ask what "flame" life possesses that non-life does not. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- Stewarding the Flame - How to Build an Ideal Future for Intelligence: https://danfaggella.com/stewarding/ -- Michael Levin – Making the Process-of-Life Flourish in Bio and Beyond (Stewarding the Flame, Ep 1): https://danfaggella.com/levin2 -- Nick Bostrom – AGI That Saves Room for Us (The Trajectory Series 2: Worthy Successor Series, Episode 1): https://danfaggella.com/bostrom1 Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/v8LIWDnhA0Q See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/ardoino1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This installment of the Stewarding the Flame series is an interview with Lee Cronin, Regius Professor of Chemistry at the University of Glasgow, founder and CEO of Chemify, and one of the world's leading researchers in the origins of life, systems chemistry, and Assembly Theory. Lee argues that life is best understood as an evolutionary process that carries memory from the past into the future. Rather than viewing biology as the beginning of life, he suggests that the processes underlying evolution begin long before the first cell exists. We explore what makes life, life, how Assembly Theory may help explain the transition from chemistry to biology, why understanding causation is essential to understanding the living process, and what it means to build a "thicker" present that gives the greater process of life the best chance to continue flourishing. The interview is the second installment of The Trajectory's newest series, Stewarding the Flame, where we explore what intelligence is and ask what "flame" life possesses that non-life does not. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- Stewarding the Flame - How to Build an Ideal Future for Intelligence: https://danfaggella.com/stewarding/ -- Michael Levin – Making the Process-of-Life Flourish in Bio and Beyond (Stewarding the Flame, Ep 1): https://danfaggella.com/levin2/ -- Nick Bostrom – AGI That Saves Room for Us (The Trajectory Series 2: Worthy Successor Series, Episode 1): https://danfaggella.com/bostrom1/ -- Henry Shevlin – The Life Force Beyond Biology (Worthy Successor, Episode 31): https://danfaggella.com/shevlin1/ -- Nicolas Gisin - Indeterminism in Physics and Intuitionistic Mathematics: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2011.02348 Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/A-mVvyX_zQ4 See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/cronin1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This installment of the Stewarding the Flame series is an interview with Michael Levin, Distinguished Professor of Biology at Tufts University, Director of the Allen Discovery Center, and one of the world's leading researchers in developmental biology, regeneration, bioelectricity, and collective intelligence. Michael argues that cognition may be more fundamental than biology itself. Rather than viewing life as the origin of intelligence, he suggests that life is one particularly effective way of hosting broader cognitive patterns that extend far beyond conventional biological systems. We explore what makes life, life, what humanity still needs to discover in order to better understand the "flame" of life, and how regenerative medicine and freedom of embodiment may reshape the future of intelligence and the living process. The interview is the first installment of The Trajectory's newest series, Stewarding the Flame, where we explore what intelligence is and ask what "flame" life possesses that non-life does not. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- Michael Levin - Unfolding New Paradigms of Posthuman Intelligence (Worthy Successor, Episode 7): https://danfaggella.com/levin1 -- Stewarding the Flame - How to Build an Ideal Future for Intelligence: https://danfaggella.com/stewarding/ -- Timur Kuran, Private Truths, Public Lies https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674707580 -- John Vervaeke, "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" https://johnvervaeke.com/series/awakening-from-the-meaning-crisis/ -- Multi-Scale Longevity: Defeating Aging from Cells to Embodied Human Minds, and the Future of the Species - Leo Pio-Lopez & Michael Levin: https://doi.org/10.20944/preprints202602.1770.v1 Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcZsGNYjH14 See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/levin2 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This new installment of the Worthy Successor series is an interview with Hod Lipson, Professor of Engineering at Columbia University and one of the world's leading researchers in robotics, machine self-modeling, and artificial intelligence. Hod argues that intelligence is not a single destination, but an expanding landscape of possibilities. Rather than asking whether machines can perform human tasks, he asks a deeper question: what happens when machines begin to understand themselves as agents acting within the world? We explore self-modeling as a possible foundation for consciousness, why increasingly capable AI systems may inevitably turn their attention inward as well as outward, and what it might mean for humanity to co-evolve alongside emerging posthuman intelligences rather than attempt to permanently constrain them. The interview is the thirty-second installment of The Trajectory’s second series, Worthy Successor, where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- A Worthy Successor - The Purpose of AGI: https://danfaggella.com/worthy -- Henry Shevlin – The Life Force Beyond Biology (Worthy Successor, Episode 31): https://danfaggella.com/shevlin1/ -- Aza Raskin – Why AGI Demands New Global Coordination (AGI Governance, Episode 12): https://danfaggella.com/raskin1/ -- Michael Levin – Unfolding New Paradigms of Posthuman Intelligence (Worthy Successor, Episode 7): https://danfaggella.com/levin1/ Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/RYW1DGmFs4I See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/lipson1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This new installment of the Worthy Successor series is an interview with Henry Shevlin, philosopher of cognitive science and AI ethicist at the University of Cambridge. In this conversation, Henry argues that many of the qualities we associate with life, intelligence, and moral value may not be confined to humans-or even to biology itself. As AI systems become increasingly agentic and autonomous, he suggests we may need to rethink some of our most fundamental assumptions about minds, consciousness, agency, and what kinds of beings deserve moral consideration. We talk about machine consciousness, animal minds, animacy, social AI, the future of intelligence, and what it would mean for life to flourish beyond humanity. The interview is the thirty-first installment of The Trajectory’s second series, Worthy Successor, where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- A Worthy Successor - The Purpose of AGI: https://danfaggella.com/worthy -- John Smart – Evolution from Cells to Super-intelligence (Worthy Successor, Episode 21): https://danfaggella.com/smart1/ -- Nick Bostrom – AGI That Saves Room for Us (Worthy Successor, Episode 1): https://danfaggella.com/bostrom1/ -- Peter Singer – Optimizing the Future for Joy, and the Exploration of the Good (Worthy Successor, Episode 10): https://danfaggella.com/singer1/ -- Henry’s paper: Three frameworks for AI mentality - https://www.repository.cam.ac.uk/items/f68213ab-908e-4363-a65f-b2ef68f0327d Books mentioned by Henry: -- Solaris by Stanisław Lem: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/95558.Solaris -- Cat's Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/135479.Cat_s_Cradle Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Q2z0I8xZrFo See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/shevlin1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This new installment of the Worthy Successor series is an interview with Benjamin Bratton, Professor of Philosophy of Technology at UC San Diego and Director of Antikythera. In this conversation, Benjamin argues that intelligence is not exclusively human or biological, but a planetary-scale process shaped by technology, evolution, and complex systems. We talk about planetary intelligence, machine cognition, Gaia, AI governance, and humanity’s role in the future trajectory of life. The interview is our thirtieth installment in The Trajectory’s second series, Worthy Successor, where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- A Worthy Successor - The Purpose of AGI: https://danfaggella.com/worthy -- Potentia and Potestas: Achieving The Goldilocks Zone of AGI Governance: https://danfaggella.com/potestas/ -- Blaise Agüera y Arcas – AGI Symbiosis and the Arrow of Intelligence (Worthy Successor, Episode 14): https://danfaggella.com/arcas1/ --Novacene: The Coming Age of Hyperintelligence, by James Lovelock: https://books.google.co.za/books?id=yOoCEAAAQBAJ&printsec=copyright&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false -- A Brief History of Intelligence: Evolution, AI, and the Five Breakthroughs That Made Our Brain, by Max Bennett: https://books.google.co.za/books/about/A_Brief_History_of_Intelligence.html?id=G99UzwEACAAJ&redir_esc=y -- The Stack: On Software and Sovereignty, by Benjamin H. Bratton: https://books.google.co.za/books?id=dEGdCwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false -- The Terraforming, by Benjamin H. Bratton: https://books.google.pt/books?id=ysknzAEACAAJ Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/OHzwgX793bs See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/bratton1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This new installment of the Worthy Successor series is an interview with Terrence Deacon, an emeritus professor of cognitive science and anthropology from UC Berkeley. In this conversation, Terrence argues that current large language models are not living or meaning-making systems, but statistical models built from human-generated text. He describes them as a “deep fake” of intelligence because they can convincingly simulate language without wanting, knowing, or caring about what is true. We talk about symbolic communication, large language models, teleodynamics, embodiment, and why he sees living systems as fundamentally different from today’s AI systems. The interview is our twenty-ninth installment in The Trajectory’s second series, Worthy Successor, where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- A Worthy Successor - The Purpose of AGI: https://danfaggella.com/worthy -- Incomplete Nature: How Mind Emerged from Matter: Terrence William Deacon - https://books.google.co.za/books/about/Incomplete_Nature.html?id=Pp-MuQAACAAJ&redir_esc=y Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/XUZ6MlNZAcc See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/deacon1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This new installment of the Worthy Successor series is an interview with Vincent C. Müller, Alexander von Humboldt Professor for Ethics of AI at the University of Erlangen-Nürnberg. In this conversation, Vincent discusses how artificial intelligence has changed in recent years, particularly the development of large language models and the increasing role of deep learning. We talk about how deep learning has overtaken other areas of AI research and how investment in the field has increased significantly. We examine the limitations Vincent sees in current systems, including challenges related to interaction with the physical world and coordination between different capabilities. We also examine the question Vincent raises about the direction of AI development and what goals it should serve. The interview is our twenty-eighth installment in The Trajectory’s second series, Worthy Successor, where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- A Worthy Successor - The Purpose of AGI: https://danfaggella.com/worthy Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Bci8dcJvUpk See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/muller1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This new installment of the Worthy Successor series is an interview with Lee Spector, a professor at Amherst College and a researcher in evolutionary computation, whose work applies concepts like variation and selection to the development of intelligent systems. We talk about how evolutionary processes challenge fixed notions of species and continuity over time, and why future forms of intelligence may be difficult to understand from a present-day human perspective. The interview is our twenty-seventh installment in The Trajectory’s second series, Worthy Successor, where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- A Worthy Successor - The Purpose of AGI: https://danfaggella.com/worthy Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/Dz9shBWdtjI See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/spector1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This is an interview with Aza Raskin, co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology and co-founder of the Earth Species Project. His work has focused on the societal impacts of technology systems and how incentives shape large-scale human behavior. In this episode, Aza frames AGI governance as part of a broader pattern: when technology confers new forms of power, it creates races to exploit that power - and without coordination, those races tend toward harmful outcomes. The implications of AI, in his view, extend beyond technical risk into the manipulation of language, relationships, and the very substrate of human coordination. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- Craig Mundie – Co-Evolution with AI: Industry First, Regulators Later (AGI Governance, Episode 8): https://danfaggella.com/mundie1/ Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/UF9geTZpG5A See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/raskin1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This new installment of the Worthy Successor series is an interview with Ben Goertzel, founder of SingularityNET and one of the earliest and most persistent thinkers in artificial general intelligence, with decades of work spanning AI architectures, decentralized systems, and philosophical perspectives on intelligence. We talk about how early exposure to science fiction, philosophy, and psychedelics shaped Ben’s cosmic orientation toward intelligence. We examine his vision for a decentralized “primordial soup” of AGI systems, and why he believes cooperation among diverse intelligences may outcompete centralized, adversarial models. The interview is our twenty-sixth installment in The Trajectory’s second series, Worthy Successor, where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- A Worthy Successor - The Purpose of AGI: https://danfaggella.com/worthy -- Robin Hanson – Adapt or Vanish: The Future Won’t Wait for Us (Worthy Successor, Episode 16): https://danfaggella.com/hanson1/ Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/b6q3ppo4D4w See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/goertzel2 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This installment of the Worthy Successor series features Luciano Floridi, John K. Castle Professor of Cognitive Science at Yale University and Director of the Digital Ethics Center at Yale. Luciano is widely recognized as one of the leading philosophers studying the ethical and civilizational implications of digital technology. In this conversation, we explore Luciano’s philosophy of the infosphere and the ethical framework he calls informational ethics. We examine how new forms of agency are emerging in digital systems, and what it means for humanity to share its environment with entities that act within informational space. The interview is our twenty-fifth installment in The Trajectory’s second series, Worthy Successor, where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- A Worthy Successor - The Purpose of AGI: https://danfaggella.com/worthy -- Peter Singer – Optimizing the Future for Joy, and the Exploration of the Good (Worthy Successor, Episode 10) : https://danfaggella.com/singer1/ -- Sextus Empiricus: The Transmission and Recovery of Pyrrhonism (Society for Classical Studies American Classical Studies) - Luciano Floridi: https://books.google.co.za/books/about/Sextus_Empiricus_The_Transmission_and_Re.html?id=0eS8LC7fqgMC&hl=en&redir_esc=y Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/0ExWk5H02hM See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/floridi1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This episode of the Worthy Successor series features Weaver Weinbaum, an independent researcher and founder of NUNET. Weaver’s work sits at the intersection of philosophy, engineering, and the study of intelligence. In this episode, we explore Weaver’s idea that intelligence should not merely optimize for predefined goals. Instead, intelligence should expand the space of possible goals and values. This perspective sits at the center of his concept of open-ended intelligence. The interview is our twenty-fourth installment in The Trajectory’s second series, Worthy Successor, where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. * Correction of the Audio - This is Episode 24 This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- A Worthy Successor - The Purpose of AGI: https://danfaggella.com/worthy Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/6UjgNMAuhM8 See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/weinbaum1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This new installment of the Worthy Successor series is an interview with Francis Heylighen, a professor at the Vrije Universiteit Brussel (VUB) and director of the Research Centre St. Leo Apostel. Francis is one of the world's leading theorists on evolution, complexity, and what he calls the "self-organizing universe." Francis's work applies evolutionary thinking beyond biology. He treats evolution as a general framework for understanding how complex systems survive and adapt - from atoms and molecules to organisms, civilizations, and future intelligences. His research focuses on what he calls "meta-system transitions": qualitative leaps where systems develop new levels of organization that create entirely new categories of existence. The interview is our twenty-third installment in The Trajectory’s second series, Worthy Successor, where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- A Worthy Successor - The Purpose of AGI: https://danfaggella.com/worthy -- Francis Heylighen, Emergence and Self-organization: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ram2f73-IvM Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/nJEGZ_YgWfU See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/heylighen1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai

This new installment of the Worthy Successor series is an interview with Stephen Wolfram, founder of Wolfram Research, creator of Mathematica and the Wolfram Language, and a pioneer in computation and complexity. Stephen reframes intelligence not as a privileged human trait, but as one expression of a vast computational universe. From weather systems to geological processes, he argues that nature itself may be computing in ways just as sophisticated as the human mind. We explore his provocative claim that concepts like goodness, suffering, and moral progress may not extend beyond the present human context - and what that means for AI, posthuman futures, and the unfolding of what he calls the Ruliad. Is intelligence a ladder of ascent - or just another pattern in an already irreducible universe? The interview is our twenty-second installment in The Trajectory’s second series, Worthy Successor, where we explore the kinds of posthuman intelligences that deserve to steer the future beyond humanity. This episode referred to the following other essays and resources: -- A Worthy Successor - The Purpose of AGI: https://danfaggella.com/worthy Listen to this episode on The Trajectory Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-trajectory/id1739255954 Watch the full episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/tlNXYUzgdNg See the full article from this episode: https://danfaggella.com/wolfram1 ... About The Trajectory: AGI and man-machine merger are going to radically expand the process of life beyond humanity -- so how can we ensure a good trajectory for future life? From Yoshua Bengio to Nick Bostrom, from Michael Levin to Peter Singer, we discuss how to positively influence the trajectory of posthuman life with the greatest minds in AI, biology, philosophy, and policy. Ask questions of our speakers in our live Philosophy Circle calls: https://bit.ly/PhilosophyCircle Stay in touch: -- Newsletter: bit.ly/TrajectoryTw -- X: x.com/danfaggella -- Blog: danfaggella.com/trajectory -- YouTube: youtube.com/@trajectoryai