Do you feel called toward something bigger — a dream, adventure, or purpose — but fear keeps holding you back? Welcome to The Discomfort Zone — the outdoor, mindset, and leadership podcast where courage meets the edge. Every Tuesday, host Anna Levesque — world-class whitewater kayaker, World Championship medalist, author, and mental agility coach — dives into raw, real conversations with paddlers, athletes, leaders, adventurers, and purpose-driven humans who choose growth over comfort. From powerful stories on wild rivers and mountain trails to navigating major life transitions, these conversations explore what it truly takes to face fear, build confidence, and find your flow — on and off the water. You'll hear: Stories from whitewater kayakers + outdoor athletes pushing their edge Insights from guides, coaches, and leaders creating impact in their fields Practical mental-agility + leadership tools you can use right away Lessons from expeditions, competition, and personal transformation How to navigate the discomfort that fuels growth, courage, and purpose Whether you're a paddler, outdoor enthusiast, emerging leader, or someone seeking more courage in everyday life, you'll walk away with practical tools to strengthen resilience, show up with confidence, and embrace the adventure of being alive. If you're ready to stop playing small and start living boldly, you're in the right zone.
How do you settle your nerves when the pressure is on and everyone is watching? In this episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Bryan Kirk, a former member US Freestyle Kayak Team member and Worlds medalist who has taken social media by storm with his old school boats and tricks, claims that once a paddler has the skill set, performance is 95 percent about keeping the mind under control. He walks us through the visualization and breathing practices he has used for two decades, and shares the story of how his performance fell apart at one of the most important competitions of his life. What he took from that day changed how he has approached pressure ever since. If you've ever trained hard, prepared well, and then watched your mind come apart the moment it counted, this one is for you. In this episode, Anna and Bryan explore: Why your mind is your biggest limiting factor, not your skill The awareness and breathing sequence Bryan uses before anything that scares him Hard moves in easy water for the mind, and why mental training deserves the same hours as skills training The strategy that allows him to throw down linked cartwheels at age 47 without getting hurt Whether you're chasing your first reliable roll, coming back from an injury, or figuring out how to keep paddling for the next thirty years, this conversation will provide you with strategy and training tips. 🎧 Listen now, and start working your mental agility on and off the water.
What does it actually take to lead a team, run an international guiding business, and still choose the hard line when it would be easier to stay comfortable? Juliet Jacobsen Kastorff is co-founder of Endless River Adventures, owner of Rio Quijos Ecolodge in Ecuador, and founder of the nonprofit Need More Outdoors. She's been teaching and guiding whitewater kayaking in Western North Carolina and internationally since 1991. On this episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna Levesque talks with Juliet about leadership, building a guiding business that outlasts you, and staying uncomfortable on purpose after three decades in the outdoor industry. This conversation is really about what it means to lead well: building a team you can eventually hand things off to, taking responsibility instead of making excuses, and noticing when your own expertise has quietly turned into a comfort zone. If you lead a team, run a business, or coach others and want to hear how a 30-year industry veteran keeps growing instead of coasting, this one is for you. In this episode, you'll explore: Why staying in your comfort zone as an expert, running the same line or the same rapid, can quietly stall your growth How Juliet builds leaders who could replace her, and why that's the goal, not the threat The hotel industry lesson that changed how she handles mistakes and hard conversations Why "a bad moment, not a bad day" changes how you show up after things go wrong What three decades of guiding in Ecuador, Costa Rica, and Chile taught her about community over ego. Whether you're leading a business, coaching a team, or just trying to get comfortable being uncomfortable again, this conversation will meet you there. Listen now, and start noticing where your own comfort zone might be holding you back.
What do you do when fear shows up and your instinct is to either force your way through or quit altogether? In this episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna talks with Sara Hunter, a licensed clinical mental health counselor, certified emotionally focused couples therapist, and PMBIA Level 1 mountain bike instructor based in Asheville, NC. Sara takes clients out of the office and onto the trail, using mountain biking to help them notice what's happening in their bodies, name what they're feeling, and practice new ways of responding to fear. This conversation is really about the skill of slowing down, and why the smallest step toward what scares you is often the most courageous one. If you tend to white-knuckle your way through hard things, or freeze when the pressure is on, this one is for you. In this episode, you'll explore: Why slowing down and naming what's happening in your body changes how you respond to fear What titration means, and how to break an intimidating goal into steps your nervous system can actually handle Why beginners often grow more on the trail than seasoned athletes, and why sitting still is the real discomfort zone for adventurers How the rhythm of pedaling and scanning the trail calms the body's threat response The surprising link between perfectionism and the courage to ask a clarifying question Whether you're eyeing a rapid you've been walking around, a trail feature that gets in your head, or a hard conversation you keep putting off, this episode offers a kinder and more effective way through. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts!
What does it mean to paddle a river your family fought six generations to free? This week marks the one-year anniversary of the historic first descent of the undammed Klamath River by Indigenous youth in the Paddle Tribal Waters program. To honor it, Anna is replaying her conversation on The Discomfort Zone Podcast with Keeya Wiki, a Yurok kayaker who completed that first descent at 17. Keeya also belongs to the Te Aupouri and Ngati Porou tribes of Aotearoa (New Zealand), and her family has fought for generations for the health of the salmon, the river, and their right to fish. This conversation is about joy as resilience, and what happens when the healing of a river becomes the healing of the generations connected to it. If you love rivers and want to understand what dam removal and Indigenous-led restoration mean for the people who fought for it, this one is for you. In this episode, Keeya and Anna explore: What it felt like to paddle the Klamath after generations of advocacy for dam removal How Keeya listens to her body and grounds herself when fear and self-doubt show up The intense underwater moment on the river that tested her self-trust The power of community, mentorship, and representation in outdoor spaces Why the joy Keeya experienced on the river has the power to heal generations Since this conversation, Anna has read The Water Remembers by Amy Bowers Cordalis, Keeya's aunt and the lawyer who played a key role in getting the Klamath dams removed. Amy joins The Discomfort Zone Podcast later this summer, and you may have seen Amy and Keeya together on the Kelly Clarkson Show sharing their family's legacy. Consider this replay the first chapter of that story. Whether you paddle whitewater, care about river restoration, or simply want to hear what courage and joy sound like, listen now and let the Klamath's story move you.
What does it actually take to train your brain for courage, and can you do it while running a 13-mile hike-in class V expedition and going back to school full-time? In this replay episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna Levesque revisits her conversation with Anna Wagner: whitewater paddler, explorer, and Dr of Occupational Therapy, whose approach to courage is equal parts science and grit. Anna Wagner has run the Middle Kings, the Stikine, and the Rio Baker, and has a knack for finding her "mean girl" voice exactly when she needs it most. This is a conversation about what courage actually looks like when it's built deliberately, not borrowed from someone else's highlight reel. If you've ever wondered why hard things feel so hard, and how to keep showing up for them anyway, this one is for you. How neuroplasticity works — and why positive self-talk feels fake before it feels true Anna's "mean girl" strategy for cutting through fear and self-doubt mid-rapid Why chunking big adventures into small steps is the same skill as running a rapid How one piece of advice from a professor changed Anna's lifestyle and her performance Whether you're preparing for a big river objective, navigating a major life transition, or just trying to quiet the voice that says you don't belong here, this conversation will give you something real to work with. 🎧 Listen now and start building the neural pathways that bring you back to your best.
Sage Donnelly just became the Queen of the North Fork, and it's the perfect time to revisit our 2024 conversation on The Discomfort Zone Podcast, recorded when she was the reigning Women's Freestyle World Champion. Sage is a multi-discipline competitor across slalom, freestyle, and extreme racing. In this conversation, she breaks down how she trained her mind to find calm and flow at the start line and in the biggest rapids she runs. If you've ever choked under pressure on something that mattered, or wondered how the best in the world stay loose when everything's on the line, this one's for you. How Sage went from competing out of fear and expectation to competing with the kind of relaxed confidence that brought her back to the World Championship podium Why feeling a rapid in your boat matters more than overanalyzing it from the eddy The expedition that taught her she could push further than she thought possible How she manages type 1 diabetes, celiac disease, and hypothyroidism without letting any of it define her Whether you're chasing a competitive goal, learning to trust your gut, or navigating a diagnosis that feels bigger than you, Sage's story has something for you. 🎧 Listen to the replay now.
Ever feel like you need the perfect plan before you can start anything? This conversation might change that. In this episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna sits down with Chris Baer, a raft guide and whitewater kayaker who lives half the year out of a converted school bus and spends his winters chasing first descents in remote corners of the world, often with little more than two weeks' notice. This conversation is for anyone who's ever held back because they didn't have it all figured out yet. Anna and Chris dig into: 🌫️ Why whitewater is "all gray," and how letting go of rigid rules opens up better decisions 🧩 How problem-solving on the fly becomes a way of life, on the river and off ✈️ What happens when you trade a five-year plan for two weeks' notice and a plane ticket 👣 Why getting feet on the ground beats overanalyzing every detail in advance If you're craving more confidence in navigating the unknown, this one's worth a listen. 🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts!
What if the language you've been using to help people is actually underselling them? In this solo episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna Levesque shares a perspective shift that stopped her in her tracks: after 25 years of building a brand around "empowering women," she's retiring the phrase. Sparked by Emma Grede's book Start With Yourself, Anna explores why the word "empowerment" may inadvertently suggest women need someone else to give them what they already have. This episode isn't about tearing down a movement. It's about getting more honest and more precise about what great coaching, instruction, and community actually do: create the container, hold the space, and trust that the person in front of you already has what it takes. If you've ever questioned the language you use, wrestled with a belief that served you well and then stopped, or wondered what it really means to support someone's growth, this one is for you. In this episode: Why Anna is dropping "women's empowerment" from her brand vocabulary after 25 years The real role of a coach, instructor, or mentor, and why it matters how we frame it What her year-long recovery from a herniated disc taught her about inner strength and being supported How to hold an idea you've outgrown with both honesty and self-compassion Why changing your language is an act of courage, not correction Whether you're a coach, a paddler, or someone mid-shift in how you see your own work, this episode will give you something worth sitting with. 🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.
What does it take to help someone do something they're afraid to do? In this episode of The Discomfort Zone Podcast, Anna sits down with Casey Bryant Jones, Director of the Ottawa Kayak School, for a conversation that gets into the real inner game of learning whitewater kayaking. Casey has spent years teaching paddlers of all levels on one of the world's premier big-water rivers, and he gets specific about fear, confidence, and what it actually means to succeed on the water. This is a conversation about what happens in the space between what you think you can do and what you're actually capable of doing. If you paddle whitewater at any level and want to build more confidence on the water, this one is for you. In this episode: Why flipping and rolling is a superpower, not a failure (and why the students who flip most often are the ones who progress fastest) The "ramp up, ramp back down" approach that Casey uses to find the right level of challenge without breaking a student's confidence The breathing technique a mentor taught him in Chile that he still uses today Why he and his wife have introduced their young daughters to whitewater kayaking even though it can be uncomfortable and scary 🌊 Whether you're working on your roll, developing your skills on the water, or building confidence, this one is worth your full attention. 🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.
Have you ever had a "stupid, hare-brained idea" that worked so well it took over your life for a decade? That's exactly what happened to James Byrd when he looked at the North Fork of the Payette River in Idaho, thought about his college football stadium experience, and decided the best kayakers in the world should be racing it in front of a crowd. What started as a passion project became one of the premier whitewater extreme races on the planet, the North Fork Championship, and now, after a few years away, James and his wife Regan are bringing it back. James is also a registered nurse, a lifelong paddler, and one of the most genuinely stoked people I know. This conversation went a lot of places I didn't expect, and I think you'll appreciate it. In this episode: The visualization practice James uses before stepping up to something big and scary on the water, and why he won't send it until he genuinely feels ready What it was like to get pushback when he first launched the event, and the one moment that changed everything Why he thinks kayaking athletes deserve to be known, not just watched, and what he's doing about it The real talk on money, sustainability, and what he and Regan discovered when they did the math on their nursing wages versus the hours they put into North Fork How going nonprofit is changing what's possible for the event's future If you've ever poured everything into something you believed in, hit friction, and wondered whether it was worth it, this one's for you. 🎧 Listen now and walk away thinking differently about what it actually costs to build something worth having, in paddling and in life.
What does it take to keep going when everything around you — the sport, the culture, the system — says this isn't your place? At the age of 13, Naina Adhikari made her way to the Ganga River, 300 km from her home village to start learning how to whitewater kayak. She couldn't swim, and was the only girl on the river with no female mentors to turn to. Although she faced many obstacles, she persisted. Naina has since represented India at the World Championships and Olympic qualifiers, won the Ganga Kayak Festival twice, and founded Ganga Girls and the Pravahini Foundation, projects that train Indian female kayakers, and that bring survivors of human trafficking to the river, and to paddling, to experience freedom, strength, and community. This is a conversation for anyone who has ever had to find their footing in a world that wasn't built for them. In this episode: The real off-river challenges of being the only woman in a male-dominated sport inside a traditional culture What Naina had to navigate alone, and why she stayed anyway The story behind Ganga Girls and Project Shakti What big volume water on the Ganga teaches about presence and showing up every day Naina's legacy word is "revolutionary." After listening, you'll understand why.
Why do some paddlers make moves look effortless while others keep missing them by inches? And when did you last give up on a move you could have made? In this solo episode, Anna shares what two recent private instruction clients discovered that changed everything: looking where you want to go isn't as natural as it sounds, especially when something intimidating downstream is pulling your eyes away. Anna connects this paddling fundamental to the bigger picture, including how her dream of leading a whitewater paddling and Ayurveda trip to India went from a casual idea shared in a Reboot and Refuel Reset to a sold-out reality, and how her own back recovery required the same commitment to vision over time. In this episode, you'll explore: Why looking ahead is a learnable skill that takes practice How committing your vision changes your angle, and your outcome The real reason we give up on moves, goals, and dreams too soon Why sustainability means keeping your eye on the goal even after things start going well This episode is for anyone who knows where they want to go but keeps getting pulled into distraction and worry, or gets stuck in tunnel vision, looking only at what's right in front of you (aka your bow). 🎧 Listen now and start paddling toward what matters.
Ann Gillard saw a gap in the paddling community and did what any good river person would do: she gathered her crew and got on the water to build a space where people can actually show up as themselves. Ann is an ACA Level 4 whitewater kayak instructor, NRS ambassador, and founder of Pride Day on the River, a volunteer-led event on the Deerfield River in Massachusetts dedicated to LGBTQ+ visibility and participation in paddle sports. It draws over 150 people for a community paddle, beginner clinics, affinity group paddling, and one of the most joyful after-parties on the river. In this episode, Anna and Ann explore: The discomfort zone continuum — how Ann uses body cues to distinguish her comfort zone, panic zone, and the growth space in between The 51% rule — Ann's personal metric for deciding when a rapid is worth running, and why purpose matters more than peer pressure Ego and the river — when ego is a useful push, when it gets in the way, and how to tell the difference Building genuinely inclusive spaces — what it actually looks like to create a container where people can show up as themselves, not as who the sport expects them to be Ann's favorite river metaphor — she shares one in rapid fire that will make you see rivers and community completely differently Cleaning up your mistakes — the courage it takes to own an error in front of a group, and why that moment of accountability can build more trust than getting it right the first time If any of this is resonating — hit play. This one stays with you.
Seth Chappelle competed at ten Freestyle Kayak World Championships before standing on top of the podium in 2023. That kind of persistence doesn't happen by accident — and it doesn't happen without discomfort. He's also an ER nurse, volunteer ski patroller, and a stay-at-home dad to two girls under five. In other words, he knows something about staying calm under pressure. In this conversation, Seth and Anna dig into what keeps a world-class athlete going through a decade of near-misses, including four fourth-place finishes at Worlds, and what it takes to finally break through. But this episode is about more than paddling results. It's about how the river teaches you to manage the discomfort that shows up everywhere else in your life. Seth and Anna talk about: Why breaking a rapid down move by move is the same skill that helps you make hard decisions in life What it's like to nearly podium at Worlds four times and how Seth stayed motivated instead of bitter The identity shift that comes when competition stops being your primary focus What it really means to be a stay-at-home dad when your identity has been built around athletic performance How Seth is introducing his daughters to the outdoors without pressure, and why keeping it fun is the long game The river metaphor that carried Seth to a world title: a river cuts through rock not because of its power, but because of its persistence This one is rich with honest reflection from someone who has competed at the highest level for over 25 years and is now navigating one of the most humbling discomfort zones of all: parenthood. Tune in if you're navigating a shift in identity, a long-term goal, or just need a reminder that persistence is its own kind of skill.
What does resilience actually look like when pain isn't occasional - it's constant? Jak Fantastic has been kayaking since she was six years old, born with severely clubbed feet and limited mobility. By 14, she was on the GB Freestyle Kayak Team. By 19, she was facing hip dysplasia, multiple surgeries, and a prognosis that said she would never kayak again. She went eight years without paddling. And then, in 2018 - unable to walk - she got back in a boat. In 2025, Jak made the decision to amputate her leg, hoping it would give her back more of her life. Before her wound had fully healed, she was back on the water. A year later, she's running remote expeditions in India and competing at the highest levels of the sport. In this episode, Jak and Anna explore what it means to keep showing up when every day includes some form of pain - physical, emotional, or both. They talk about identity loss, the dark years when kayaking stopped being possible, and what finally cracked open the door to meditation after years of resistance (hint: it started in a yoga class in Rishikesh after a Christmas that broke her open). This is one of the most honest conversations about discomfort, courage, and the choice to keep going that we've had on this show. In this episode: Why Jak says discomfort isn't the obstacle — it's just life, and how that shift changed everything The eight years she spent away from kayaking and what it took to find her way back How grief, a solo trip to India, and one quiet moment in the mountains cracked open her meditation practice Living with phantom limb pain after amputation — and what sitting with pain (instead of fighting it) has taught her What the whitewater community needs to do to make the sport more accessible for differently abled paddlers Press play and spend an hour in the discomfort zone with someone who lives there every day, and continues to choose it powerfully. About Jak Fantastic: Jak Fantastic is a British whitewater kayaker, adaptive sports advocate, and expedition paddler with over 30 years on the water. A former GB Freestyle Team member, she competed at the 2023 World Freestyle Championships and has podium finishes at World Cups and British Championships. She paddles with one leg, an ADHD brain, a dry sense of humor, and zero interest in being told what she can't do.
Today is my 52nd birthday — and I'm doing something I don't do nearly enough: actually stopping to celebrate. If you're someone who moves straight to the next goal, minimizes what you've accomplished, or quietly compares yourself out of your own wins — this one's for you. I'm sharing a simple reflection practice that has a way of shifting everything, including how you talk to yourself when something feels hard or out of reach. It takes about five minutes. Your younger self will thank you. Try the exercise and let me know what you discover: Email Me!
What if slowing down your progression isn't playing it safe — it's actually the most ambitious thing you can do? River Mutton is an extreme whitewater world champion from New Zealand who does tricks over waterfalls, runs lines most paddlers only dream about, and deliberately keeps her progression slower than her skill level. In this conversation, Anna talks with River about the mental game behind big water performance — and what happened when a bad swim in familiar water shook everything she thought she knew about staying safe. In this episode: How River reframes fear as hyper-focus rather than a stop sign Why she runs things well below her skill level, and what that looks like at world-champion level The swim that shook her confidence and the month she spent questioning why she paddles at all What going to Chile taught her about rediscovering joy on the water Making decisions from facts instead of fear stories What River and Anna discovered about self-criticism across generations of women paddlers Whether you're working up to your first big drop or returning to the water after a setback, this conversation will shift how you think about fear, confidence, and what it really means to progress. Listen now for inspiration on how to be confident in your process at your own pace.
Ask Mariann Sæther what got her to two world championships, and she won't say talent. Mariann is a two-time world champion in extreme kayaking, a mother of two, and one of the most accomplished women in whitewater history. She retired from competition in 2024 after nearly three decades of paddling rivers around the world. In this conversation, Mariann and Anna dig into what it actually takes to perform at the highest level, navigate real risk, and keep showing up when it's not working. From getting flipped repeatedly down Jakes at 3,000 CFS two days before winning the North Fork Championship, to learning to separate a failed line from a failed identity, Mariann brings a rare mix of honesty, humor, and hard-won insight. In this episode, you'll explore: Why grit and hard work matter more than talent, and how to stop letting the "talent story" hold you back The difference between scared and nervous, and how that distinction shapes good risk decisions Why leading the rapid changes everything for women building confidence on whitewater How to stay useful, engaged, and growth-oriented when you choose to walk a line What pioneering women in whitewater built, and why their stories deserve to be remembered Mariann's approach to breaking big goals into small pieces, from horse training to creek boating If you've ever told yourself you just don't have what it takes, this episode is a direct and generous challenge to that story. 🌊 Once a river person, always a river person. 🎧 Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.
What does it take to rebuild a life around what you actually love — not what looks impressive from the outside? Laura Kurup spent years as a high-performing tech executive — Chief Strategy Officer at the SEC, Chief Data Officer at the New York Fed — and somewhere along the way, paddling took a backseat. Then came a rare and aggressive breast cancer diagnosis at 40. What followed was a two-year unraveling and rebuilding that led her back to the river, into whitewater instruction, and toward a life anchored in her own intuition. In this episode, Laura and Anna explore what it really means to face discomfort — not just the dramatic kind, but the low-level stuff we spend enormous energy ignoring. Laura shares how cancer cracked open the identity she'd been clinging to, why letting go of control on the Grand Canyon led to better lines, and what she's learned about expanding her window of tolerance — on the water and in life. In this episode, you'll explore: Why high performers often ignore discomfort until it becomes a five-alarm fire — and how to work with it at lower levels instead The mental shift that transformed Laura's lines on the Grand Canyon: from controlling the plan to reading and running How identity attachment (like being "the canoeist who doesn't flip") can quietly limit your growth What a cancer diagnosis revealed about the difference between performing a life and actually living one Laura's take on using AI intentionally — and why she compares it to ketchup The river metaphor she brought home from the Grand: following the bubble line If you've ever pushed discomfort down until it exploded, played it too safe and ended up stuck on the rocks, or wondered what life might look like if you gave yourself permission to follow your intuition — this episode is for you. The river gives you a put-in and a take-out. How you run it is up to you. 🎧 Listen now and find your bubble line.
