Casual chats between an Austrian and Australian on environmental topics that usually don't get talked about openly. Hosts Gunnar Haid and James Hammond set out to provide a light-hearted and thought-provoking look into Contaminated Land, Resource Recovery, Ecology and general environmental issues in Australia, in particular NSW. They use their experience and industry connections to talk about subjects that, at least in their opinion, don't get talked about enough or not in the right context. Join them for a chuckle and some unique perspectives. And don't forget to keep track of your listening experience. It is official, listening to Below the Surface collects CPD points at a rate of 0.5 points per hour of listening (self education category). Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
What does a career in the environmental industry actually look like, and how do you know when it is time for a change? That change can range from minor adjustment in your life and your expectations and goals to a big one like changing jobs or even careers altogether. Gunnar and Hammond are joined by career coach Kellie Guenther to discuss career pathways, professional development, leadership, mentoring and workplace culture. They also explore the pressures facing young professionals, why the first job can shape an entire career, and why working in the environmental industry may involve fewer dolphins and butterflies than expected. Links: EPA Updates: Regulatory, licensing, policy and legislative updates | EPA PFAS Position Statement Asbestos in Recovered Fines EPA Response to OCSE paper Free Asbestos Waste Disposal for households Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#45 The Disclaimer
Disclaimers in our reports. Useless fluff or necessary ass covering? Who better to discuss this than Sarah Mansfield ( LinkedIn ) who is returning to Below the Surface and almost immediately raises the bar for all future lawyer and engineer jokes. Sarah, Gunnar and Hammond tackle P&O cruise insults, ALGA glory, puppies, and why a useful “How to Read This Report” section may be better than hiding AI created legal fog at the back. Other subjects: Report reliance, executive summaries, confused clients, angry clients, and why “nobody other than the Client can rely on this report” is not quite the magic spell consultants hope it is (spoiler: don't bother with that statement). Sarah's first appearance on BTS HWLE Lawyers H2coco poppers pulled from Woolies shelves due to plastic straws - Inside Waste Coal companies to reap billions more in taxpayer diesel subsidies as Labor approves new mining The episode was recorded on 16 June 2026 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#44 The Duplicate Pushback
In Episode #30 The Duplicate , Gunnar famously declared that duplicate soil samples in heterogeneous fill are useless. Risk assessor Belle Casement of Terravale Consulting heard the episode… and decided Gunnar needed correcting. 😲 In this nerd-out episode, they discuss QA/QC, dodgy duplicates, lab uncertainty, conservative risk assessments, and whether the typical QC sections in contaminated land reports are actually science or just expensive pseudo scientific fluff we do to please regulators. Gunnar briefly ponders writing his own version of the ASC NEPM and re-introduces the term Quality Theatre in hope of getting it officially introduced into the Miriam Webster next year. They also get into lead, vapours, CRM samples, rinsates, trip blanks and upper confidence limits, with a completely unnecessary but somehow relevant detour into Henry VIII and Scientology. Nobody backs down, several sacred cows get kicked over, while Hammond tries hard to keep the two fighters apart and sometimes even dares to enter the ring himself. BTS Episode #30: The Duplicate - the OG duplicate episode BTS Episode #11: he Sampling Evolution - Ross McFarland Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#43 The Negotiator
Hammond relives his time as a representative for Australia in international biodiversity negotiations at COP13 of the Convention on Biological Diversity . But before that a few updates, a hint for auditors and Gunnar almost completely loses it while talking about one of the latest EPA announcements leading to a most epic Gu-rant. Links: Clarence Coal mine penalty Constitutional heads of power . 'Getting to Yes' . Never Split the Difference . Rapport - The Four Ways to Read People . Sam Harris | #132 - Freeing the Hostages with Chris Voss Professional AS Soils Short Courses - Southern Cross University Recorded on 2 April 2026 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#42 The Basics: Microplastics
Microplastics: The Invisible Problem (or is it?) Brooke Kelly from Reditus joins Gunnar and James to unpack microplastics. From penguin carcasses and seal scat (that's science code for poo) to human exposure, they explore where microplastics come from, how they are measured, and why they are everywhere. There is a lot of hype surrounding microplastics and some evidence of ecological harm exists, but human health impacts remain largely observational. They tackle analytical limitations, media-driven panic versus scientific uncertainty, and the parallels with PFAS. The episode lands on a pragmatic note: while the science evolves, a precautionary approach and simple exposure reduction strategies are worth considering. Links from the episode: NEJM: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2309822 https://shirtloadsofscience.libsyn.com/prof-michaela-lucas-465 Broadscale microplastic assessment | EPA https://aahms.org/publications/microplastics-precaution-and-biomonitoring-needed/ https://theconversation.com/scientists-may-be-overestimating-the-amount-of-microplastics-in-the-environment-and-the-culprit-is-lab-gloves-258545 Below the Surface: The PFAS Health Advice Recorded on 17 April 2026 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#41 The AI Revolution
Artificial intelligence has gone from curiosity to daily tool almost overnight. In this episode, Gunnar and James sit down with AI consultant Alex Rankin who spent over 25 years in senior roles across the Australian Public Service before turning her focus to helping environmental consultancies figure out where AI actually fits into their workflows. Together they cut through the hype and talk about what AI can actually do for environmental professionals right now. In this episode: What LLMs, generative AI, agentic AI, and AGI actually mean, and which ones matter for your practice right now Why AI is better thought of as a fast intern than a consultant (for now) What environmental consultants are actually using AI for (and what they're still struggling with) The hallucination problem (Gunnar calls it lying) and the cross-checking trick that helps How to train an AI tool and what "training" actually means in practice A practical framework for dipping a toe in without blowing your budget or your deadline Why Claude, ChatGPT, and Gemini are not interchangeable and when to use which This episode was recorded on 6 March 2026. Book a meeting with Alex: https://meetings-ap1.hubspot.com/a/driftwood-discovery ALGA launches Special Interest Group for AI Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#40 The Risk Assessment
If you've ever stared at a lab result that exceeds your NEPM HIL and wondered "okay, but what does this actually mean?". This one's for you. Gunnar and James sit down with Dr Kylie Dodd , environmental toxicologist and risk assessor at GHD, to get into the science behind the numbers that so many of us lean on without fully understanding where they come from. Kylie has a great way of making this stuff click, and the conversation goes places that are genuinely useful for day-to-day practice. They get into why Tier 1 screening levels are built to be conservative by design, why an exceedance doesn't automatically mean you need to remediate, and what it looks like to think a bit deeper, what they're calling "Tier 1.5 Risk Assessment — without needing to be a fully-fledged risk assessor yourself. A big chunk of the conversation is about the practical stuff: how to get more out of your conceptual site model (CSM), how to think about exposure pathways and bioaccessibility, and how realistic site use should dictate the way you interpret results. Some of those small shifts in thinking can make a real difference to the recommendations you're putting forward. They also get into how risk assessments hold up under regulator scrutiny, when an environmental management plan is actually the right tool, and what data decisions early in a project can save a risk assessor a lot of headaches later. Fair warning: this episode won't make you a risk assessor. But it might change how you think about what those numbers are really telling you — and what you do next. Links: ASC NEPM Toolbox Episode 38 The Bioavailability Recorded on 12 Feb 2026 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#39 The Big ASS Questions
A deeper dive into Acid Sulfate Soils. In a slightly QLD centric episode, Gunnar and James are joined by all three main authors of the QLD ASS Management Guidelines , widely regarded as the best ASS guidelines in the world. Sue-Ellen Dear is a Senior Land Resource Officer with the QLD Department of Natural Resources and Mines and has contributed to acid sulfate soil policy and guidance since 1996. She is lead author of the QLD ASS Management Guidelines . Kristie Williams has spent nearly 25 years in the QLD government soils team, working across ASS, salinity, erosion and land resource assessment. She has authored technical reports, contributed to regulations and assessed developments from small works to major canal estates. Dr Angus McElnea Angus developed the SPOCAS method, contributed to laboratory guidelines, and co-authored Australian (AS 4969) and international (ISO 14388) standards. He is a NATA technical assessor, worked on the East Trinity remediation project, and is currently involved in greenhouse gas and fertiliser efficiency research. They unpack how acid sulfate soils form and what really happens when these soils are disturbed. They cover pyrite formation, potential vs actual acid sulfate soils and the “trinity of acidities” and then discuss real-world management challenges. They put forward avoidance of disturbing ASS as the first priority, the realities of liming and mixing on treatment pads, the controversy around acid neutralising capacity, and why incubation testing matters. They talk about strategic reburial, the pros and cons of centralised treatment facilities, the carbon cost of treating ASS, and the industry’s tendency toward conservative safety factors (with a small Gu-rant - they are always audience favourites so we hear) The episode finishes with validation testing, safe reuse of treated soils and the future of professional certification through the Registered Soil Practitioner scheme . If you work in contaminated land, coastal development, infrastructure or groundwater, this episode is essential listening. Links: BTS #23: The Basics: Acid Sulfate Soil Legislation and policies for ASS management in Qld ASS guidance material Retained Acidity Technical Note SNAS correction by NATA Gunnar loves ASS Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#38 The Bioavailability
How much of any given contaminant is actually taken up into human bodies? If we think about it, that is one of the single most important things to consider as an environmental consultant when reporting on a site's contamination status, yet it is not something that is very often done. Gunnar and James are yet again soaring with an industry eagle as they set out to get better at that very aspect of consulting. They chat with Dr Albert Juhasz, a Research Professor at the Future Industries Institute, internationally recognised for cross-disciplinary research on contaminant bioavailability and human health exposure. He has led development of one of the world’s largest contaminant bioavailability databases and advanced in vitro methods now applied at more than 100 contaminated sites across Australia. His work has informed national and international exposure assessment policy, including the ASC NEPM and EnHealth Guidelines, and influenced regulatory guidance in the US, Canada and New Zealand. Albert is a senior journal editor, WHO consultant, contaminated-site auditor adviser, and a highly cited researcher (H-index 37). The episode was recorded on 7 November 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#37 The 2025 Reflection
The 2025 Year in Review (That Wasn’t Supposed to Happen) What started as a neat 15-minute intro quietly turned into a full end-of-year wrap-up. Classic Below the Surface. Gunnar and James get side-tracked almost immediately and eventually realise they have recorded the accidental 2025 BTS year in review. They cover listener feedback, behind-the-scenes stats, favourite episodes and a special mention for Sandgate. Personal obsessions make an appearance, with both sharing their top five podcasts of the year. Strong opinions, minimal overlap, and proof that podcast hosts mostly listen to other podcasts. On the technical front, Gunnar explains why the new AS 5370 feels like a step backwards, followed by a familiar rant on mandatory low-speed EV noise in Australia. EVs also feature heavily, including the claim that at least 11 new electric vehicles have hit Sydney roads thanks to a BTS episode. The EPA gets its own moment, with discussion of recent turmoil, announcements that feel straight out of Utopia, and Gunnar’s practical solution to the EPA’s budget problems. They finish with updates on Resource Recovery Orders, the new ASS RRO, and thoughts on a possible National EPA. Unplanned, slightly chaotic, and very on brand. A fitting way to wrap up 2025. Links: Gunnar's Top 5 Podcasts The Tennis Podcast Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps Andy Roddick's Served Podcast The Michael Shermer Show Joe Rogan (his interview with Lance Armstrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEfSdPz1WtA ) All the other podcasts Gunnar subscribes to in one handy link James' favourites The Imperfects Podcast Two Broke Watch Snobs Democracy Sausage with Mark Kenny | Australian Studies Institute The Rights to Ricky Sanchez - A podcast about the Philadelphia 76ers The Art of Manliness This BTS Episode was recorded on 12 December 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#36 The Client - TMA
What it's really like to be regulated? Regulators, take note - this one’s for you. We are shining the light on the third corner of the Regulator – Consultant – Client relationship: the Client . What’s it really like to be on the receiving end of regulation? Do operators of licensed facilities feel supported … or just scrutinised? Are those hefty licence fees worth it? And is there a fair playing field between the licensed and the “let’s-pretend-we-don’t-need-a-licence” crowd? Of course, it’s not all about the regulators, consultants, you’ll want to listen too. What do clients actually expect from us? What builds trust, and what breaks it? To kick off this new series, Gunnar and James sit down with Anthony Alpen , Founder and CEO of Tank Management Australia (TMA) . As the head of an IBC (Intermediate Bulk Container) reconditioning company, working under a strict EPL, Anthony knows first-hand what it means to navigate the regulatory maze. Sure, it sounds a bit dry on paper, but, as always, Gunnar and James find the sweet spot between serious insights and a few good laughs. It’s smart, it’s honest, and it’s the kind of chat that’ll make both regulators and consultants think twice (in a good way). The episode was recorded on 10 October 2025. Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#35 The PFAS Heath Advice
The NSW Health PFAS Advice includes quite some statements: “The health effects of PFAS appear to be small.” “… there was definite evidence of increased psychological distress in … exposed communities, evidence for other adverse health outcomes from this study was limited.” “Interventions that reduce blood PFAS are of uncertain benefit and may cause harm.” These comments seem at odds with much of the mainstream media's presentation around PFAS. Or even the recently drastically reduced drinking water guidelines or Version 3 of the National Environmental Management Plan (NEMP) for PFAS. On top of that, the statements are unusually direct for a government public health communication, which made us curious to understand how NSW Health had arrived at these conclusions. To find out, Gunnar and James reached out to NSW Health. Their media team was quick to respond and connected them with two members of the expert advisory panel: Dr Claire Hooker – Associate Professor, Health Humanities and Arts and Health, Sydney Health Ethics Prof Martyn Kirk – National Centre for Epidemiology and Population Health, Australian National University Speaking with these distinguished researchers was a privilege. Despite being a little star-struck, Gunnar and James kept their cool and recorded one of their most insightful conversations to date. This episode was recorded on 30 September 2025 and it is dense with evidence, reasoning, and nuance - it’s well worth your full attention. Southern Cross University Acid Sulfate Soil Course Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#34 The Stormwater Stirrer
Gunnar (without James this time) gives it a go to get to the bottom of the very basics of what we need to think of around stormwater on a site. There are few better suited to talk about the subject than our guest Mircea Stancu , the founder of Cleanstormwater . Mircea is a civil engineer, software engineer and, you guessed it, an expert in anything related to stormwater. He is also quite a flamboyant guest and he and Gunnar managed to put together a show case of the very best of (what Gunnar at least calls) attractive European accents. The two of them briefly talk about a dispute between Mircea and Melbourne Water, played out publicly on LinkedIn. If you feel like a little bit of entertainment, grab your popcorn and have a look at these videos: https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7185803882801848320 https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7209037421026369536 https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7215890816471302146 https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7213783068518596609 https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7211555577947127808 https://www.linkedin.com/embed/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:7261621640537481216 https://www.cleanstormwater.com.au/ https://au.linkedin.com/in/mircea-stancu-193048108 Southern Cross University Acid Sulfate Soil Course The episode was recorded on 5 June 2025. Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#33 The Waste Class Blues
James K (James Karagiannis) has personally completed a stack of waste classifications. And in addition, he has reviewed somewhere between 1,000 and 1,200 reports written by other consultants for our clients. That gives him a rare, panoramic view of what great looks like … and what misses the mark. Gunnar and Hammond, James Hammond, sit down with him to unpack what he sees when reviewing these reports. The original plan was to listen to James K. But with Gunnar’s well-known habit of let’s say, sharing his thoughts, and Hammond’s nerdy knowledge in resource recovery and compliance, there may have been a little more talking than listening at times. Still, we think you’ll enjoy the conversation, have a few laugh and maybe even pick up a few tips to sharpen your own waste classification skills. Enjoy! The episode was recorded on 11 September 2025. Links mentioned in the episode: Electric Vehicles are allowed to use transit lanes in NSW NSW Health Expert Advisory Panel on PFAS Our interview with NSW Health Panel members on the PFAS Health Advice Nightcrawler on Netflix Episode with Linda Apthorpe on asbestos in soils analysis Episode with Pierina Otness on how to sample for asbestos in soil on a site Episode with Ross McFarland about sampling and Decision Units Gunnar's method of re-running samples accountably Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#32 The EPA CEO
Tony Chappel , the CEO of the NSW EPA, is our guest today, so we are definitely back with a bang after the summer holidays. Gunnar and James are (surprisingly!) well-prepared and keep the conversation on track as they dive into Tony’s journey to leading the EPA, his early priorities, the role of politics in environmental regulation, and the importance of deep listening in leadership. They explore everything from the OCSE paper and the EPA's potential collaboration with industry bodies, to the tricky disconnect between waste and contaminated sites, the zero-tolerance stance on asbestos in waste, updates to the ASC NEPM, and the growing pressures on landfill capacity. And yes, Gunnar did try for a get-out-of-jail-free card from Tony… but no luck this time (nice try, though)! Three experts, one great conversation, and a rare look into the leadership and direction of the NSW EPA. This is definitely one episode you won’t want to miss. Links mentioned: NSW Health Expert Advisory Panel on PFAS Our Interview with NSW Health Panel Members about this advice (recorded a few weeks after this episode went live) Draft ASS Order and Exemption Recorded on 19 August 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#31 The Half Price EV
Electric Vehicles are basically half price in Australia right now, thanks to some little-known government incentives. Gunnar and James decided it was the perfect time to talk… tax. Yes, tax. And you thought resource recovery was a boring subject, right? But before you judge, listen to this episodes. Gunnar and James have brought in the big guns: chartered accountant Paul Mills (paulybmills at gmail.com). It really sounds like the beginning of a bad joke: Two engineers and an accountant meet for a podcast ... Somehow yet again they pull it off, though. This episode is full of genuinely valuable information. Paul explains what Fringe Benefits Tax (FBT) actually is, who pays it, and whether your lease company or car dealers are lying to you with their 'tax advice' (spoiler: probably). They also unpack the confusing mess that is the difference between a car loan, a lease, and a novated lease. And most importantly: The kicker is that EVs (full EVs, not wannabe EV hybrids) are FBT exempt in Australia. If you do it right, that knocks off around 50% off the prices of buying an EV. How? You gotta listen to find out. But remember: While Paul is brilliant, this podcast is still mainly about contaminated sites and resource recovery (some call it dirt and rubbish). So don’t go making financial decisions based on what you heard here without getting your own advice. Recorded on 11 June 2025 (just before EOFY!) Link to the EPA announcement regarding NEMP 3 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#30 The Duplicate
Gunnar claims almost all duplicates we take serve close to no purpose. If you want to know why, have a listen and be entertained and informed at the same time. The OGs are back together in this episode, and quite an unusual one it is. This times it is James who goes on a few rants, quite to Gunnar's amusement. Of course, Gunnar has a few things to say as well and he will definitively ruffle some feathers with this episode. We start off with playing Wikileaks by talking about a letter the EPA sent to all auditors regarding the staged introduction of V3 of the PFAS National Environmental Management Plan (NEMP) and also a clarification regarding PFAS and the Duty to Report. (Plug to our previous Episode #25 The Duty to Report ). Then Gunnar and James hash out some ideas on duplicates, high RPDs, re-running of samples, basic statistics, experimental setups in science and why being 'conservative' might not be delivering the results you think it is. Episodes we talk about: #29 The New AS5370 Standard with Linda Apthorpe #25 The Duty to Report with Elizabeth Wild . #11 The Sampling Evolution with Ross McFarland Links: EPA regulatory updates Deana Crumbling Security Theatre - Wikipedia This episode was recorded on 17 May 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#29 The New AS5370 Standard
Attention Asbestos in Soils Specialists, there is a new kid in town. The Australian Standard 4964-2004 Method for the qualitative identification of asbestos in bulk samples has been superseded with a new AS 5370. What's different? What's better, what's worse? Why are we reporting below the detection and below the reporting limit? Is NATA on board with it? What do all those different sub-categories the laboratories report actually mean? Gunnar is talking to Linda Apthorpe, a Certified Occupational Hygienist and Fellow of the Australian Institute of Occupational Hygienists (AIOH). Linda is Associate Principal Occupational Hygienist at Hibbs in Sydney, a Lecturer at the University of Wollongong, author of multiple scientific papers and speaker at a variety of professional development seminars. There are very few who are better suited to talk about this subject, especially since Linda was also on the panel of people who developed the new Standard . James was unfortunately not there to keep Gunnar in check, and you guessed it, that resulted in not one, not two, but at least three (in)famous Gu-Rants in this episode. Some would say that alone makes this episode compulsory listening for anybody in the industry. Episodes mentioned: #2 The Mulchgate #11 The Sampling Evolution #28 The OCSE Odyssey The episode was recorded on 11 April 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#28 The OCSE Odyssey
The Office of Chief Scientist and Engineer (OCSE) has issued recommendations concerning asbestos in waste and soil. Sarah Mansfield , Special Counsel (and environmental law superstar) at Norton Rose Fulbright , breaks down the key points and their legal implications. Given the focus on the PoEO Act and its handling of asbestos, you'd expect at least one of our hosts to go off the rails with a classic, epic rant. But, against all odds, age, wisdom, and a dash of professionalism took the reins—so much so that this episode doesn’t even come close to earning the 'explicit' rating it sometimes gets on various platforms. Gunnar's composure alone is a highlight (though he admits to biting his tongue to the point of unhealthiness!). Add to that the invaluable insights from James and Sarah, and you've got an episode well worth your time. We loved making it as always, and we hope you enjoy every moment. Leave a review or drop us a message. We thrive on connecting with our listeners! Upcoming ALGA event 1 May 2025. Sara is one of the presenters: Sydney Branch Event - OCSE Report: Management of Asbestos in Recovered Fines and Recovered Materials for Beneficial Reuse in NSW | ALGA This episode was recorded on 25 March 2025 Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
#27 The Chronicles of an Auditor
Rod Harwood - do we need to say anything else? There are few who have had more influence on our industry and who have contributed more than Rod. Gunnar had a chat with Rod and while they reminisce about 'the good old days', Rod sprinkles in some anecdotes of his impressive career and shares gems of his incredible knowledge as an engineer and a business man. James was unfortunately unavailable (you know, work and stuff ...), but we promise, this is one everybody in our industry will enjoy. BTS Episode mentioned: The Duty to Report The episode was recorded on 7 March 2025. Listen to Below the Surface and collect CPD points. We have confirmation that you can claim 0.5 points for every hour you spend with us under the Self Education Category Contact: bts@4pillars.com.au https://www.linkedin.com/company/below-the-surface-podcast The necessary disclaimer: The views, thoughts, and opinions expressed in this Podcast are the speakers’ own. They do not necessarily represent the views, thoughts, and opinions of 4Pillars Environmental Consulting Pty Ltd or any Client, Supplier or other party related to 4Pillars or the speakers. (c) Gunnar Haid and James Hammond
