Distance To Empty

Play The Mammoth 200 Video Game! Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Meet the Mammoths — Lexi Corcione: From Spartan Obstacles to 214 Miles Before she ever considered herself a trail runner, today's guest ran more than 30 Spartan Races. Lexi Corcione is a strength and performance coach based in Scottsdale, Arizona, and this October she's stepping up to her first-ever race over 200 miles at the Mammoth 200 — just months after finishing the notoriously tough Sedona Canyons 125. In this episode, Lexi talks about the moment obstacle racing stopped being enough, what it's actually like living in a house with two professional endurance coaches (her husband Joe coaches ultrarunners for a living), and why she thinks strength training — not just mileage — is the most overlooked piece of long-distance success. She also walks us through her playthrough of the official Mammoth 200 video game, including an Easter egg involving sheep dogs, gels, and a blister named Gary. We close things out with our usual final stretch: the loop question, her finish-line order (hint: a cheeseburger is involved), her non-placement goal for the race, and a prediction for race week weather that involves snow. In this episode: From 30+ Spartan Races to her first-ever 200-mile race Married to her running coach — how that actually works day to day Why stabilizer strength matters more than the "sexy" lifts Her Mammoth 200 video game playthrough (and the hidden Easter eggs) A tease of a possible basketball activation coming to Mammoth this year Her prediction for race week: sun, snow, or something in between Mammoth 200 kicks off Friday, October 2nd in Mammoth Lakes, California — Catch live coverage on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel, and follow @Mammoth200 for updates and tracking throughout the race.

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠⁠ Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Jeff Garmire and Allison Powell join Kevin on the day Rewritten premieres — the film Allison directed about Jeff's Appalachian Trail FKT, out now on the Free Outside YouTube channel . Please note: this episode includes candid discussion of depression and suicidal ideation. Resources are listed at the bottom of these notes and at the top of the episode. We start where the film starts: Denver, a corporate job, twelve-hour days, and the drive home where Jeff realized that if the worst option was on the table, then literally every other option was too. That realization became the 2016 calendar year Triple Crown, a dehydrator running before sunrise, a daily blog, and about $15,000 raised for suicide prevention — as much a way to open a conversation he didn't know how to start as it was a fundraiser. Then we get into the AT: fifty miles and roughly eleven thousand feet of gain a day for forty-five days, and the parade of things that went sideways. Two left shoes in a resupply box (meaning two right shoes were sitting somewhere else). A broken pole in Shenandoah. A missing box. InReach messages so garbled Allison couldn't tell if Jeff was typing fast or coming apart. And the text, two hundred miles from the finish, asking whether he should hike twenty miles backward to retrieve every piece of electronics he owned. Allison gives the crew-from-2,000-miles-away perspective that rarely makes it into these stories — staring at a dot, sleeping with the ringer on, waking at 4am Mountain in case something had gone wrong at 6am Eastern, and the night she ended up on her knees on an Airbnb staircase during her cousin's wedding weekend. Jeff talks about the six or seven months of mental work that let him rewrite his A goal mid-effort without it becoming soft quitting, why a "why" can be simple, and what five years of therapy has done for him. Also in here: how the film came together, Allison's pitch for more producers in adventure filmmaking, her Moab 240 and a hard-won love of red rocks, where the title came from (and Jeff's extensive brainstorming before agreeing she was right), and a stop-the-episode moment near the end when Allison catches us leaving out the small matter of the ring Jeff carried in his pack for the entire trail. Watch Rewritten on the Free Outside YouTube channel. Learn more about the Trevor Project or donate: https://www.thetrevorproject.org Mental health resources The Trevor Project: 1-866-488-7386, or text START to 678-678 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (US): call or text 988

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠⁠ Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Part of our miniseries on The Cutoff , the new Aravaipa/Dylan Harris film. Kevin and Peter sit down with Robby Chaney, who describes himself as a runner, hiker, and death marcher, and who has spent more time chasing cutoffs than almost anyone in the sport. Robby's first trail race was a 40K in 2018 that went so badly he wrote off trail running entirely. New shoes he'd never worn, a vest he'd never used, and temperatures over 100 degrees. Then a volunteer request for a race called Cocodona 250 landed in his inbox, and the number stuck in his head. Six years later he has four 200-mile finishes, a starring role in a film about the very thing he's spent his career outrunning, and a 2026 Grand Slam on the calendar. We get into what the back of the pack actually looks like from the inside: 100-plus hour races, aid stations where you turn around and walk straight back out, and the compounding physical, mental, and emotional cost of days on course. Robby also walks us through his 2025 Cocodona, where he made it to roughly mile 220 before his lungs quit on him in Walnut Canyon. Pulse ox in the low 80s, an IV, and a search and rescue extraction. (Peter, who also got to mile 220 and didn't finish, offers a competing explanation for his own DNF: he got tired.) The conversation closes somewhere we didn't expect. In 2002, Robby was stabbed by a stranger and left bleeding on the street. He woke up in the ICU and was told he'd probably never walk again. He used a cane for years. He turned 50 last month and is signed up for close to a thousand miles of racing. In this episode: (01:15) Aspirational ultrarunner: what "death march" actually means (02:26) What people get wrong about the back of the pack (05:41) From a miserable 40K to signing up for a 250 (08:25) Coldwater Rumble 2024 and learning what a cutoff is mid-race (11:04) Respecting the cutoff without fearing it (13:37) DNFs as data points, and the trekking poles that cost him Mogollon Monster (16:27) Getting the email from Dylan and Emily, mid-race, on a ridgeline (19:40) What happened in Walnut Canyon (23:37) 2002, the ICU, and the twenty-year road back The Cutoff is out from Aravaipa. Follow Robby's 2026 season with us.

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: ⁠https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod ⁠ Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ In this special edition of Distance to Empty, Kevin and Peter sit down with Jen Novobilski, one of the runners featured in The Cutoff , the new film from Dylan Harris and Aravaipa Running. Jen's path to a 250-mile buckle started on a rainy day in Alaska in 2007, when she and a friend bailed on a hike and signed up for a half marathon instead — one minute running, one minute walking. Marathons turned into a 50-states goal, the pandemic turned that into her first 50-miler, and the company she kept did the rest. She talks about finding out mid-race that she'd be in a film (filmmaker Bradford caught her hugging her crew at the start and tracked her down at Crown King), and about only learning last week — from our episode with Jamil and Dylan — that the movie was really about the cutoff all along. Her first reaction was ego. Her second was admiration for how the crew handled it. We get into her 2025 Cocodona 250: roughly five hours of sleep across the whole race, no real dirt nap until past mile 200, hallucinations, a full head-to-toe clothing change in the downpour before Fain Ranch, and snow on Mingus that felt like home. (She did not bring rain pants. Who brings rain pants to the desert?) Jen also breaks down the Skydive Ultra — where the skydive itself counts against your cutoff — and previews her next big swing: the Iditarod Trail Invitational 150, starting days after this recording, with a kid's sled her nieces and nephew decorated and her grandmother sewed the zipper into. At 51, with a regular job and a regular life, her message is simple: if she can do it, so can a lot of other people. In this episode: Accidental ultrarunner: from mountaineering to a rainy-day half marathon Alaska running, sled pulling, and the Susitna 100 The Skydive Ultra 100 — bacon, hallucinations, and losing two hours to the jump Getting recruited into The Cutoff at mile 37 The "observer effect" of running with a camera on you Sleep deprivation, weather, and why the 2025 Cocodona was the hardest year yet Why crew and pacers made the finish possible Escalation, "normalizing Norman" friends, and what's actually being chased What Jen hopes people take away from the film about the back of the pack

Learn about our Patreon Offers!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Bigfoot 200 — 2026 Course Preview Bigfoot is back. After two years of fire reroutes and closures, the 2026 course returns to its classic form — Klickitat is back in the rotation, and Forest Route 25 has finally reopened, cutting the drive from Randle to the start line from nearly four hours to under two. Jameson joins Kevin and Peter fresh off course marking to break down all 200.1 miles, section by section: where the water actually is this year (there's less of it), which climbs hurt more than the profile suggests, and what the blowdowns look like on the back half. In this episode: The 2026 changes — Coldwater Lake crew logistics, Twin Sisters losing crew access, and the Owens Creek aid station moving 1.5 miles down the road Why the silty water off Mount St. Helens will end your filter's race Quartz Creek: 7,000 feet of gain, 17 miles, and the loneliest place on the course Klickitat to Twin Sisters, fresh windfall, and the phenomenon known as "Klick-a-face" Crewing with one vehicle pass, no cell service, and a lot of driving River crossings, waist lamps, huckleberries, and why Bigfoot is the best place to dirt nap Race starts Friday, August 14 at noon. Good luck out there — and remember to check official race comms, since things can still change.

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Kevin and Peter sit down with Selene Mallone, a Canadian firefighter who jumped from 100-milers to the 200+ mile distance and hasn't lost since. In under a year, she won the Divide 200 in her first attempt at the distance, took the Arizona Monster 300 in brutal desert heat, and then won the Ribbon 200 outright on Ontario's Bruce Trail. Selene shares how she balances training around 24-hour fire shifts, her DIY heat prep for the Monster (sauna suit on the StairMaster, a sauna sleeping bag, "practicing dirt naps"), why two-to-five minute trail naps beat fighting sleep deprivation, and running out of water alongside Sam Carroll in a 22-mile exposed desert section. Plus: the growing Canadian 200-mile scene, the Sioux 200 coming in September, and why Selene thinks the only way to know if you can do the distance is to try.

Kevin and Peter break down the wildest week of the year: Cocodona 250, 2026 edition. Peter kicks things off by running the Bradshaw Brute (recap episode coming soon), then joins Kevin at Mingus Mountain for the inaugural season of the MBA — the Mingus Basketball Association — where nearly every runner, from Rachel Entrekin's course-record-setting first bucket to Courtney Dauwalter's extended court time, stopped at mile 107 to shoot their shot. Spoiler: 107 miles of running does terrible things to your jumper. The week also included an overnight shift at Schnebly Hill Aid Station (nonstop chili mac and at least three saved races), snack reviews delivered mid-race, surprise phone calls to runners live on the Mountain Outpost stream, "Emotions on Elden" interviews from the final climb, and a down-to-the-second cutoff drama at Mingus. Stick around to the end for the full 50 minutes of raw MBA court audio — trash talk, airballs, celebrity cameos and all. If you can name every voice you hear, we might just send you a hat. Huge thanks to our sponsors Janji and Mount to Coast for making the MBA possible. Support them (and us): use code DISTANCE at Mount to Coast or select Distance to Empty in Janji's post-purchase survey, screenshot it, and send it to @distancetoemptypod on Instagram or distancetoemptypod@gmail.com for free swag.

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Paul James Johnson is a civil trial attorney from Michigan who didn't run his first marathon until he turned 40. He and didn't discover ultrarunning until he was 60. Nine years later, at 69, he was the oldest finisher at Cocodona 250 this year, posting his fastest time yet on his fifth attempt at the race, and landing on the podium in his age group. In this episode, Paul opens with an apology for missing a commitment during Cocodona (a mid-race "basketball" tradition on Mingus Mountain. Before diving into his running origin story, from a courthouse rec-league basketball team to his first brutal 50-miler in Michigan's Upper Peninsula. He talks through what changed in his training and mindset that led to his breakthrough performance this year, including a more structured training block, starting creatine supplementation, and leaning hard on his crew — including his two sons who crew for him at nearly every race. Paul also shares his self-coined "Art of Distraction" technique for getting through the darkest miles of a 200-plus-mile race, his habit of recording detailed audio notes to himself before each race segment, and his refreshingly simple philosophy on aging in the sport: age doesn't disqualify you from anything — the answer is always yes. The conversation wraps with a rapid-fire "Quick Five," covering his highest high (crossing the Cocodona finish line with his full crew), his lowest low (a DNF at the Thailand 500 he's still chasing redemption for), his go-to race fuel, and whether he's found his distance to empty. (He hasn't. He's already signed up for four more races.)

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Lindsey Dwyer: Cleaning Up the Mess at Cocodona 250 Middle school PE teacher by day, 250-mile ultrarunner by... well, by 72 hours and 48 minutes straight. Lindsey Dwyer joins the show fresh off a 5th-place finish at Cocodona 2026 — a full seven hours faster than her debut the year before, with nearly four of those hours saved just by spending less time loitering at aid stations. In this conversation, Lindsey breaks down what it actually takes to come back to a race and "clean it up": the rookie mistakes she refused to repeat (no more fun-runs in a dust storm the day before), racing against the sunrise for her B-goal, and why she sets A-goals she only expects to hit half the time. She talks candidly about battling her asthma through smoke-choked air, losing her voice for the entire second half, and gutting out two pacer-less night sections — including a lonely, viewless summit of Mount Elden at mile 230 where her sister's midnight phone calls kept her moving. We also get into her training philosophy (big volume, reluctant strength work, lots of zone two), the growing pains of going from self-coached to working with Coach Leo Perschel, how she squeezes altitude and heat training around a teacher's three personal days a year, her Rio del Lago course record, a top-20 at UTMB, and what's next at the Mammoth 200. Plus: breakfast tacos with HEB tortillas, why the pack is the one piece of gear you can't get wrong, and whether Lindsey has found her distance to empty. (Spoiler: not even close.)

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! The Last Four Standing: Six Years of Cocodona 250 Four runners. Six straight years. Roughly 6,000 miles of one of the hardest point-to-point ultras in the country. In this episode, Kevin Goldberg sits down with Andy Glaze, Jeff Garmire, Aaron Fleisher, and Jose Sosa — the only four athletes to finish every single Cocodona 250 since its 2021 debut. What started as a one-off pandemic-era adventure (Aaron even emailed the race directors to say he'd never be back) somehow became an annual ritual none of them saw coming. The guys talk through how the race hooked them, why it never actually gets easier, and the community that keeps pulling them back to the start line each May. There's also a healthy dose of competition and chaos: back-of-the-napkin math on how many hours they've each logged on course (the guesses are scarily accurate), predictions for when the streak finally breaks and who'll be the last one standing, theories on how each man's run will eventually end — from injury to flight delays to one very specific basketball-related exit — and the origin of Andy's parallel 100-mile-week streak that may be even harder to kill than the Cocodona one. Equal parts tribute, roast, and group therapy for people who can't stop signing up. Here's to year seven.

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! The Tahoe 200 Goes All the Way Around Again — 2026 Course Preview with Jameson Collins For the first time since 2019, the Tahoe 200 is a true full loop—no out-and-back, no fire detour, just 200+ miles circumnavigating Lake Tahoe. Kevin and Peter sit down with Jameson Collins, Destination Trail's HQ manager and course marking director, who just spent a week hanging dragons and ribbons across the entire course. Fresh off the trail, Jameson walks us through the loop aid station by aid station, with current-as-of-race-week intel on snow, water, blowdown, and everything in between. This year's race is a tale of two courses: a wild, remote, technical first ~100 miles through the Caldor Fire scar and forgotten corners of the El Dorado National Forest, then a return to the smooth, groomed "fairytale" Tahoe Rim Trail experience from Barker Pass home. Jameson breaks down where you'll be post-holing through soft snow (and why microspikes won't save you), which sections feel like bushwhacking dragon-to-dragon, where the jeeps will be crawling up Cadillac Hill, and why Wrights-to-Loon is the single hardest leg out there. Plus: gear and spike strategy, dressing for the brush and burn scars, the three sleep stations (Wrights Lake, Barker Pass, Brockway Summit), where the course dries out and water gets scarce, the brutal final climb under the Heavenly ski lifts, and Jameson's best advice for anyone tempted to quit with hours of cushion still in the bank. Race starts Friday, June 12 at 9 AM. 105-hour cutoff. Heavenly Stagecoach Lodge start/finish. Pacers allowed from Loon Lake (mile 87.6). Guest: Jameson Collins — Destination Trail HQ manager, course marking director, and founder of Huda Trail.

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Laura Rambikur didn't grow up an athlete. Told in middle school she wasn't good at sports, she chose the arts, became a musician, and didn't find running until her mid-thirties. This year, she crossed the finish line at Heritage Square as a Cocodona 250 finisher. 250 miles from Black Canyon City to Flagstaff, completed in 123 hours. In this episode, Laura sits down with Kevin and Peter (Kevin also happens to be her coach) to unpack the journey from a four-year dream sparked on a couch watching the livestream to the start line of her first 200-plus-mile race. With a light ultra resume and a hard DNF at High Lonesome behind her, she put together a training block Kevin calls one of the most impressive he's ever seen. But this conversation goes deeper than splits and cutoffs. As a clinical mental health therapist who has spent years working with trauma survivors, Laura brings a rare lens to suffering, resilience, and what it means to keep moving forward when you can no longer trust your own mind. We talk about going off course near Goldwater Lakes, the respiratory struggles that nearly ended her race on the Coconino Plateau, the brutality of the Mount Eldon descent at 5 a.m. on day six, and the family crew — her mom and sister — who carried her to the finish. Along the way: why fear can be an asset instead of something to burn down, the power of accompaniment, cinnamon roll waffles at Jerome, and the case for trekking poles when you can't stop throwing up. Oh, and Laura opens the episode with an AI roast that gets genuinely spicy. You've been warned. Have you found your distance to empty?

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Trish Corbett came to Cocodona 250 in 2026 with unfinished business. After a DNF in 2022 the Flagstaff-based nurse spent four years watching the race from the sidelines before finally lining up again for redemption. She got more than she bargained for. At mile 109, descending Mingus Mountain in the dead of night, Trish fell and dislocated multiple fingers on her left hand — also sustaining an avulsion fracture where bone separated from the joint. Rather than quit, she improvised a splint from a race flag, found KT tape from fellow runners, hiked 15 miles to Jerome, and talked an ER doctor into reducing the dislocations without systemic pain meds so she could return to the course. Four hours later, she was back running — without poles, with a hand swollen to twice its size, still ahead of her husband's finishing time. Before all that chaos unfolded, Trish had already made her mark at the Mingus Basketball Association — Kevin and Peter's mid-race shooting contest — draining two corner threes at 107 miles in, in the dark, wearing her pack, to win the women's division and take home a prize pack including a John G gift card, Ultraspire gear, Bollé sunglasses, and Mount to Coast shoes. In this conversation, Trish talks about nursing as the reason she started running, the emotional weight of returning to a race after a DNF, how her medical background helped her triage herself mid-race, what it felt like to want to quit on the Hangover Trail, why a missing slice of cheese nearly broke her, and what David Goggins' "never volunteer to quit" mantra meant to her in the hardest moments. Plus: her coach Kaleb Stevens' reaction, her husband's very colorful response to a photo of her hand, and what that finish line buckle means now compared to what it would have meant on a clean run.

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Zach Hauer joins Kevin Goldberg fresh off his first-ever 200+ mile race — the Cocodona 250 — where he finished in 69 hours after spending much of the race in podium contention. A former University of Arizona track and cross country runner turned competitive ultrarunner, Zach brings a unique perspective to the 250-mile distance, drawing on experience from UTMB's CCC and golden ticket races that set him apart from much of the field. In this episode, Zach breaks down the full arc of his race: the unexpected mental fog of running in a lead pack, a costly navigation blunder through the Fain Ranch section, a "hero dose" creatine experiment that left him feeling like he was having an out-of-body experience, and a deeply emotional low on the climb to Schnebly Hill that had him questioning everything — followed by one of his strongest sections of the race. He also reflects on sleep strategy (or lack thereof), the difference between giving up and quitting, and what it means to voluntarily choose suffering in a sport where so many face it without a choice. We also get his inside look at how Cody Poskin, Joe McConaughy, and Courtney Dauwalter race these things, a quick breakdown of his training approach and what he'd do differently, and why he'd come back and do it all over again. Plus: basketball at mile 107, OpenFuel's mission to reduce plastic waste in the sport, and the manifesting of future MBA podiums.

Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! https://janji.com/pages/distance-to-empty ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Missy Hendricks is one of the athletes featured in The Cutoff , the new film by Dylan Harris presented by Aravaipa Running — and from the moment a film crew came running toward her on the trail outside Prescott, she wasn't sure she wanted to be found. In this special mini-series episode, Missy opens up about what it meant to be seen — not just as a runner, but as a Mescalero Apache woman, a mother, a wife, and a full-time worker chasing something most people in her life never saw coming. She talks about going from her first half marathon to the starting line of the Cocodona 250, the "ghost in her own home" reality of training while raising a family, and the moment on course when something clicked and she decided to let the world in. Missy also speaks candidly about what the back of the pack actually looks like — the flooded aid stations with no massage tables, the 30-minute sleep windows, the mental fight to keep moving when every part of you wants to stop — and why every finisher, regardless of place, deserves to be celebrated. This one hits different. Don't miss it.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! Last year she finished Cocodona 250 in the worst weather the race has seen — two straight days of torrential rain, snow and hail on top of both the Bradshaws and Mingus, shin splints through the final miles into Flagstaff. She dragged herself to that finish line and a week later when registration opened, she signed up again immediately. She's back. Her crew is back. Her dad's RV is back. And this year she's showing up as an athlete rather than a mom with something to prove. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Randi Zuckerberg — returning Cocodona finisher, Tony Award winner, tech executive, author, and mom of three — for a conversation about what crossing that finish line actually changed. Randi talks about watching her sons transform in her wake — one training for Triathlon Nationals, the other running 50-mile weeks at age 11 — and what it means to show up this year with a real training block, a Boston Marathon, a training camp on the Cocodona course, and a custom Mount to Coast shoe with a fire horse painted on it. She also has a strong opinion about Nerds clusters and their potential arsenic content. She's eating them anyway. Her chalkboard message at Mingus is "everything is temporary." The bad moments and the good ones. She'll be riding whatever wave she's on. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! She ran 526 miles in six days on a 443-meter indoor track. She has exceeded 200 miles in a single effort multiple times in backyard ultras and looped formats. She fast-packed the majority of the Cocodona 250 course to prepare. She has never run a traditional point-to-point 200-mile race. That ends in May. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Megan Eckert — Six Days in the Dome champion, backyard ultra specialist, high school track and cross-country coach, and first-time traditional 200-miler — for a conversation about what it actually means to merge two loves: trail running and going very, very far. Megan talks about what she learned fast-packing the course, how she plans to gamify a race that doesn't loop back around every four miles, and why sleep strategy at Cocodona is a whole different animal than anything she's done before. She's not sleeping in a comfortable indoor aid station. She's bringing earplugs, an eye mask, and her backyard instincts. Her students now assume that when she misses school, she's out there racing. They're not wrong. They want to hear all of it when she gets back. Her chalkboard message at Mingus is "don't miss those shots." She meant it about the MBA. She also meant it about the race. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! EPISODE DESCRIPTION She won Moab 240 and Tahoe 200. She won Western States, Hardrock, and UTMB — sometimes back to back to back in the same summer. She came to Cocodona 250 last year, led the entire field through 108 miles, and stopped at Mingus Mountain. She ran a 2:38 road marathon in the fall because she wanted to feel like a beginner at something. She is back. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound 2026, Kevin and Peter sit down with Courtney Dauwalter for a conversation about what this distance actually requires from her — patience, adventure, and progress that looks different depending on which part of the roller coaster you're on. Courtney talks about what a full reset after UTMB actually looked like, why rediscovering the road marathon reignited something she didn't know needed reigniting, and how she thinks about racing something this long when every decision you make on day one compounds across day two, night two, and day three. She also asked if there were NBA jerseys at the Mingus Basketball Association. There are. She is extremely ready. Her chalkboard message at Mingus Mountain is a letter to herself: dear Courtney, this is not your finish line. Love Courtney. Her prediction for Cocodona 2026 is that at least 1,500 pickles will be consumed across all race distances. She needs Jamil and the team to count. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! She won Badwater 135 in 2021. In 2023 she ran four 200-plus mile races in five months — Cocodona 250 first, then Tahoe, then Bigfoot two weeks after that, then won Moab 240 to cap the Grand Slam — despite getting blisters within the first few miles of Cocodona and spending much of that year in a level of physical discomfort she describes as the worst of her life. She's coming back for Cocodona in 2026 after a significant knee injury that had doctors telling her she was done with 200s. She found a surgeon who paused and said "but." In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Sally McRae — Yellow Runner, Badwater champion, Grand Slam finisher, author of Choose Strong, and the only guest in this series who described Cocodona 250 as "an eating contest from Phoenix to Flagstaff." Sally talks about what that 2023 Grand Slam actually felt like from the inside, why she's leaning into gratitude and away from pride heading into this year's race, and the thing she tells athletes who are in their darkest moments out there — think about the story you want to tell. Her daughter is a runner at NAU. Sally is hoping she runs her into the finish line. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.

FLAGSTAFF BOUND is BACK for 2026! Become a Distance to Empty subscriber!: https://www.patreon.com/DistancetoEmptyPod Get some free DTE Swag by supporting out sponsors! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Janji.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and be sure to select 'podcast' > 'Distance to Empty' on the post purchase "How did you hear about Janji" page. Thank you! Check out Mount to Coast here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://mounttocoast.com/discount/Distance⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Code IRON at www.goodranchers.com and mention us in the post purchase survey! EPISODE DESCRIPTION She was almost on the U.S. Olympic ice hockey team. She got a scholarship to Princeton. She taught world history. Then she became a professional triathlete, won six Ironman triathlons, set the all-time fastest Ironman by an American woman, finished third at Kona, and retired from triathlon in 2022. Since then she has won Western States golden ticket races, finished seventh at Western States, taken fifth at CCC, and set the course record at the Unbound XL — a 350-mile gravel race. This is her first 200-mile trail race. In this episode of Flagstaff Bound, Kevin and Peter sit down with Heather Jackson — six-time Ironman champion, professional ultrarunner, and someone who by her own admission goes out way too hard and blows up, and is hoping to not do that at Cocodona. Heather talks about what the transition from triathlon to trail actually looks like from the inside, how her husband manages her sponsors, films her YouTube channel, and sags her training runs on his mountain bike, and why she's genuinely terrified of this race in the best possible way. She's been watching the Cocodona live stream for five years and can't believe she gets to be on it. Her five words are "holy shit I am scared." Her chalkboard message at Mingus is for her dogs Stevie and Frankie. If they're waiting for her, she'll get there faster. Cocodona 250 kicks off Monday, May 4th at 5 AM Pacific. Follow the action live on the Mountain Outpost YouTube channel.