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Published by Jon Katz
Welcome to Beat The Prosecution with Fairfax, Virginia criminal defense / DUI lawyer Jonathan Katz. Jon Katz believes in spreading the word of justice on this podcast, in court, and on his blog at https://katzjustice.com/blog, to regularly provide information and ideas for beating your prosecution. More information is available at https://KatzJustice.com and at (703)-383-1100.
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Send us Fan Mail Life's twists and turns bring us to a plethora of destinations, byways, and discoveries by surprise, out of order, and at dizzyingly varying speeds. Who would have thought that my first law firm job would lead me to meet true believer criminal defense and civil rights lawyer Joseph Margulies , via his conservative father (and my essential mentor) Irv Margulies (see his eye opening unglossed interview on his WWII combat experience in Germany) congratulating my transition to public defender work and happily telling me of his son Joe's working in the same field. When Joe and I first spoke in late 2025 , he told us about his metamorphosis from his clients being a means to fighting the opponent, to his clients being the raison d'être for his work, together with his gift for being a great writer (with several published books ). Now Joe is back, talking about his essential book available September 15, 2026, by Beacon Press, entitled Cast Out: A cure for a forgiving society in an age of incarceration. Having rivetedly read the Cast Out galley proof, I know my fellow criminal defense lawyers will find it a great read for humanizing our clients in the settlement negotiation, trial, and any sentencing stages. Remaining readers will find themselves on Joe's journey with several people who committed monstrous acts, but who still had or later developed essential elements of humanity, with some of them emerging into caring and thoughtful humans who seem to be the positive twins of their former scary selves. Joe aptly says "the other" does not exist, rather than just us. Monster humans are not reality, versus people doing monstrous things. He does not even except Hitler from this concept. Listen why. Joe begins Cast Out with an exploration of a January 6, 2021, defendant who pleaded guilty and later got pardoned along with the vast majority of the other January 6 defendants. In this interview, I tell Joe how one of my excellent taijiquan teachers was one of those pardoned defendants. After I sent this teacher a brief message about my concerns about that soon after the incident, I put that by the wayside, recognizing he was not the other, and that January 6 did not detract at all from his greatness and generosity as a martial arts teacher, with whom I continue to sense hands / spar and learn. Joe's book tour will for Cast Out is expected to include Busboys & Poets (I await learning the location) on October 11, 2026, at 5:00 p.m. This full episode is available on YouTube , podcasting , and Apple podcasts . This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail At the NORML conference around 2000, the Drug Policy Alliance' s leader Ethan Nadelmann was entertaining, informing and inspiring the converted. At one point, he exclaimed along the lines of "I haven't tried that drug............ yet." That unleashed my laughter, coming from this well respected and effective leader to dismantle the drug wars and to replace them with lawful intravenous needle exchange, legal injection sites, overhauling the imprisonment system that made the United States a leading incarcerator on the planet, and more. Over two and a half decades later, Ethan this week interviewed with me on my Beat the Prosecution podcast, where among many other items he explains the importance for him of personally experiencing the effects of many of the drugs for which he argued to reform. How many past college professors (Elliott taught at Princeton) make such public admissions? That is his persuasive transparency at work. My opposition to the drug wars were a major catalyst for me to transition from a corporate law firm to criminal defense, where I have delighted in eroding the drug wars from my own corner of the earth, defending people charged with many other crimes, and constantly summoning the Bill of Rights. This interview with Ethan is a battery charger, with his wide-ranging energy, optimism, imagination, and ability to find common ground with even the most otherwise seemingly virulent opponents. With conservatives supporting the drug wars, he has found commonality in opposing civil asset forfeiture that relates even ever so thinly with allegedly illegal drug activity. With Milton Friedman and other free economy people is the aversion to the drug wars as a major socialist enterprise. Ethan has met with drug policymakers and enforcers in many parts of the globe. With tough on crime nations in East Asia and beyond, he has seen reforms that ease up on drug enforcement when that reduces the spread of HIV and AIDS. For criminal defense and other trial lawyers, Ethan's example shows how to persuade even with the otherwise most recalcitrant of listeners, with appropriate and genuine humor, humanity, and finding points of mutual interest. The work of dismantling the drug wars never ends. Ethan has been a major force in setting this movement in the right direction and inspiring its next generations. This interview with Fairfax criminal defense lawyer Jon Katz and Ethan Nadelmann is available in full on YouTube https://youtu.be/MGm0wansD2g on podcasting https://podcast.beattheprosecution.com/2293867/episodes/19750008 , and on Apple podcasts https://podcast.beattheprosecution.com/2293867/episodes/19750008-winning-like-ball-of-fire-ethan-nadelmann This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail To persuade others, it is important to transform oneself not only to their perspective, but their full being, feelings, relevant experiences, sense of place and even unsettlement, and thought process. That approach, with psychodrama (working out challenges with role playing, reverse role playing, and scene setting), is a big part of the Trial Lawyers College, which I attended for a full month, and which is featured in several of my Beat The Prosecution interviews. Anam Petit , with the Murray Osorio law firm, is the second former immigration judge to join me on my podcast , the first being my law school immigration clinic and class professor Paul Grussendorf. With Anam, I dig deeper into strengthening one's persuasion chops by seeing matters from the judge's perspective. Unlike most "views from the bench" programs I have attended, where the judges are usually restrained in giving tips to lawyers (for instance saying to be fully prepared and fully considerate of judges and opponents, rather than really letting their hair down), Anam holds nothing back in sharing her two years of experience as an immigration judge (during the Biden and Trump administrations) and her perspective of the wide range of lawyering she experienced, including her frustration at the swath of lawyers whose work was subpar to the detriment of their clients, when her role limited her ability to help rectify the situation. Anam underlines the importance of getting one's persuasive point across succinctly, rather than through repetition or plodding. She talks about how she would assess the credibility she witnesses. Anam underlines how demanding was her full docket and about working through lunch and needing to be highly organized to keep up timely with her work. When lawyers and other litigants work with those demands, that can pay off for the persuader. Now back to private law practice, mainly representing individual non-United States citizens, Anam addresses dealing with the trauma of many clients -- as is often the case for criminal defense lawyers, as well as-- and the challenges of keeping a balance in one's life when individuals are relying tremendously on our delivering them great service, and in some instances hoping we will pull a rabbit out of our hats. Anam is frank about the need to overhaul the immigration judging system -- which heavily includes hearings where people risk deportation -- including to make immigration courts Constitutional Article III courts (like the federal District Courts and Circuit Courts) so that immigration judges do not feel their judicial independence threatened by risking being fired by the Justice Department -- that employs them, and perverts the process by unabashedly characterizing such judges as " deportation judges" in their immigration judge hiring webpage --for not pleasing the DOJ or presidential administration in general. In a predecessor interview with another interviewer, Anam addresses sticking to her oath at all times. The current administration terminated a slew of immigration judges appointed during Democratic administrations, and Anam was one of those so terminated after nearly two years. Notable is her lack of bitterness over that termination and the positive words she has to say about the people at the immigration courts who continue focusing on doing the right thing. Anam has been active with the public interest group Arrived (renamed from Asylum Works) Donations can be made to that group at this link . This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Michigan lawyer Patrick Barone is the third Beat the Prosecution podcast guest who has both attended the Trial Lawyers College and been active with the National College for DUI Defense . Patrick for years pursued a DWI defense focus before attending the TLC, and then he jumped both feet forward into intensive learning and training with psychodrama -- which is a major feature of the Trial Lawyers College that has been covered numerous times on this podcast -- becoming certified in psychodrama after many years of devoting substantial time to this approach of psychotherapy and working out challenges through role playing and reverse role playing, and much more. As his and his wife Elizabeth Corby's Michigan Psychodrama Center page says, Patrick is a Board Certified trainer, educator and practitioner of psychodrama, sociometry and group psychotherapy, which is no small feat to add to an already busy criminal defense law practice. Listen as Patrick addresses with Fairfax criminal defense lawyer Jon Katz how psychodrama can be used for lawyers to prepare their entire trial and courtroom presentations, and prepare their clients to testify. Patrick talks about the possibility of speaking from the first person as the breathalyzer machine in a DUI case, taking exception to the breath test operator who does not enable the machine to do its job properly by not inspecting the suspect's mouth for foreign objects, to preclude the machine from testing for mouth alcohol rather than deep lung alcohol. Patrick tells of one instance about using psychodrama doubling to relate and connect directly with his client. He talks about using psychodrama on himself to work out his issues with authority, in order to unblock his challenging interactions with a judge he repeatedly encounters. He differentiates the difference between righteous indignation at a police officer during cross examination, and alienating jurors who do not perceive a justification to be indignant. He talks about advocating in the moment, and understanding others from their perspective and from putting ourselves into their shoes. Beyond all that, Patrick talks of pursuing a pre-med path in college and then retooling to be a lawyer over such matters as his strong support for a robustly protected Second Amendment. He repeatedly writes about artificial intelligence for lawyers. His AI substack newsletter is at https://patrickbarone.substack.com Each month, he and his wife hold psychodrama sessions. Patrick makes a good point that often the psychodramatists in the room are not lawyers, and the lawyers are usually not psychodramatists. He is both. This Beat the Prosecution episode is also available on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPdJ-7Tf_Zc and https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/winning-by-integrating-with-the-moment-patrick-barone/id1721413675?i=1000783081810 This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Buddhist nun Venerable Thubten Chodron of Sravasti Abbey returns for a second time to talk with Fairfax, Virginia, criminal defense lawyer Jonathan Katz , this time to discuss Venerable's 2025 book incorporating experiential stories from inmates, and also the beautiful artwork by many of them, entitled The Key of Compassion- Finding Meaning Where You Least Expect It . The ideal for a criminal defendant is to avoid conviction and incarceration. However, judges and court magistrates do not always grant pretrial release, and not all convicted people avoid incarceration. Consequently, this is the second Beat the Prosecution episode that removes the mystery about handling incarceration, and focuses on keeping grounded and resilient while detained. The first episode on that topic was with Fleet Maull, a dharma teacher who served a fourteen year sentence for a federal drug conviction at the end of the twentieth century. By removing the mystery of incarceration, criminal defendants can be bolder and more confident in fighting their prosecutions along with their lawyers. Jon Katz first heard of Venerable Chodron from Rodger Kamenetz 's The Jew In the Lotus (where Chris Berlin's description of the jewel in the lotus is " boundless compassion that is fully responsive to suffering and moves us to alleviate that suffering unconditionally and spontaneously as we encounter it" and where om mani padme hum apparently praises the jewel in the lotus). As it happened, when Jon first invited Venerable Chodron to this podcast, she and those at her abbey were already very involved with helping inmates, and The Key of Compassion was already in the works. Jon Katz recommends donating to Sravasti Abbey's Prison Dharma Fund , reading The Key of Compassion and also donating the book to prisons and other detention centers, for the availability of inmates. The best way to learn how to donate spiritual books to detention centers is probably to contact the institution's chaplain. This episode is also available on YouTube and Apple podcasts . This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Winning for criminal defendants integrates teaming up closely and well with our clients, life experience, successful trial experience, improving ourselves, and persuasively engaging others, for starters. Our podcast guest Kimberly Benjamin , in Missouri, includes integrating the approaches of the Trial Lawyers College , the National College of DUI Defense and more to start obtaining justice for defendants even before any trial starts. I first learned about Kim through our connection to the Trial Lawyers College, which she attended and where Kim ultimately joined the staff. How necessarily frank was Kim when walking into her first meeting of the Missouri criminal defense lawyers association, asking where were the women, and then soon becoming a member of its board. This episode is also available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjHDLhhePg0 and Apple podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/winning-before-trial-even-begins-kim-benjamin/id1721413675?i=1000777978177 Fairfax Criminal Lawyer / Virginia DUI Attorney Jonathan L. Katz pursues your best defense against felony, misdemeanor, DUI, drug & sex prosecutions. Defending in Fairfax County, Arlington, Loudoun, Prince William & Beyond. Call 703-383-1100 for a free in-person consultation with Jon Katz about your court-pending criminal case. KatzJustice.com This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Non-United States citizens are at more risk than in decades with their criminal cases, and many times starting while the prosecution is still pending in court. Harsh treatment of non-U.S. citizens did not start from whole cloth with Donald Trump, but he and his tough-on-immigrants supporters have taken the matter to an entirely higher quantum level. And still we have safeguards, including the Senate's non-action on H.R. 875, which would have made green card holders deportable for a conviction of driving under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs (aka DUI, DWI, OWI and OUI). With the situation for non-United States citizens and undocumented people in the United States getting no better -- and in many instances worse (for instance with the widespread application of no bond for immigration detainees) -- the time is ripe for the return after sixteen months of crimmigration expert Ofelia L. Calderón , to whom your host Fairfax criminal defense lawyer Jonathan Katz repeatedly turns for on-the-money advice and opinion letters for his non-United States citizen criminal defense clients. Criminal defense lawyers need to understand the immigration risks for certain convictions, sentences, and procedures. In 2010, the United States Supreme Court included correct advice about adverse immigration consequences from criminal cases within the Sixth Amendment’s Effective Assistance of Counsel clause. Padilla v. Kentucky, 559 U.S. 356 (2010). Crimmigration law is so nuanced that no primer exists to teach this to criminal defense lawyers in but one sitting. This Virginia crimmigration chart from Amica does not end the essential learning needed by criminal defense lawyers, but at least propels the matter forward. Beyond the political winds that affect immigration law and enforcement policy, we have practical considerations that have been around for decades, including Crespo v. Holder , 631 F.3d 130 (4th Cir., Jan. 11, 2011), which lets us know to beware whether a seeming sweetheart deal is really a sweetheart deal when considering the adverse immigration, financial and personal consequences that can come from a wide panoply of criminal case dispositions. Furthermore, non-United States citizens without legal permanent residence / green cards need to be particularly cautious about leaving the United States while their criminal cases are pending in court. Learn much more about all of this and plenty more in this podcast episode. This podcast is also available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYSoVvHK3PI and on Apple podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/winning-by-navigating-the-crimmigration-landmines/id1721413675?i=1000776851879 This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail WINNING BY SOWING THE SEEDS OF EMPOWERMENT Interviewee Leah Penniman and Fairfax criminal lawyer Jonathan Katz are good friends with Jon's essential peace teacher (and prior Beat the Prosecution podcast guest ) Jun Yasuda , whose beautiful peace pagoda is less than two miles from Leah's Soul Fire Farm. Leah's story is one of never giving up nor giving in, which is also essential for criminal defense. She experienced substantial racism while growing up, and kept persevering, including with learning about farming. Long ago, Leah, her husband and children lived in an Albany food desert, and ultimately, she and her husband bought the farmland that is now Soul Fire Farm . Leah did not stop at merely opening a farm, but has a nonprofit to assist lower income people with food, and welcomes countless people to learn about self empowerment and farming. Leah tells some captivating stories, including about African women who would braid seeds into their hair, to have them available for planting in the event they were forced into slavery. Leah does not candy coat the hurdles in life, the history of racism (including in farming), and the continuing racism found too extensively in society. She recognizes those hurdles and continues persevering. Leah's thoughts on helping criminal defendants, are, aptly, for them to remember that they and all beings are sacred. I recommend donating to Soul Fire Farm , and reading Leah's books Farming While Black- Soul Fire Farm's Practical Guide to Liberation on the Land, and Black Earth Wisdom: Soulful Conversations with Black Environmentalists (2023). Coming next is Children of the Land: A Soul Fire Farm Parenting Guide , authored by Leah and her child Neshima. Here is the video version of this episode. Here is the Apple podcast version . This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Fleet Maull inspires Fairfax, Virginia, criminal defense lawyer Jonathan Katz for his extensive experience applying mindfulness with highly challenging situations, making the most of his fourteen years in prison for a drug conviction, and emerging from prison continuing to help inmates and by now helping so many people beyond those in the criminal justice system , with resilience while ready for the dangers that can lurk around the corner. (Check out this month's free online Somatic Healing Summit , where Fleet will be talking.) When Jon Katz first met Fleet over ten years ago at a weekend program that Fleet was leading, Fleet included a great exercise that underlined that we can treat circumstances as neutral, which does not mean the absence of plenty of terrible world events, but that "we, not circumstances, are in charge of our lives and destiny." Radical Responsibliity , by Fleet Maull. Fleet also is great leading guided meditation, which he does early in this podcast episode with a few-minute sit. Fleet was trained in-depth in mindfulness at Naropa Institute (which became Naropa University) before getting convicted for alleged drug trafficking that apparently had taken place a good amount of time before being prosecuted. Fleet spent fourteen years in federal prison. No matter how much of a chunk of his adult life that represented, at least he avoided the even more draconian federal statutory criminal sentencing increases that took hold not long after he got convicted. Fleet does not candycoat his prison experience. He points out the racial disparities in the criminal "justice" system, his coming to terms that the people he was imprisoned with would be his "brothers and sisters" while there, six run-ins that could have taken an awful turn (and many more minor run-ins), the importance of not being passive nor too aggressive in prison, and knowing that people could walk in through an inmate's unlocked cell door and even kill them. Fleet made the best of his prison situation. Helped other inmates along the way, and emerged from prison -- whether immediately or later -- a ball of positive energy and inspiration. This Beat the Prosecution interview with Fleet Maull is riveting. This episode is also available on YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi33kl8qIFQ and Apple Podcasts. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/winning-with-resilience-while-ready-for-danger-fleet-maull/id1721413675?i=1000772153117 This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Obtaining justice in court is a never-ending process of learning; self-development; blood, sweat and tears; self discovery; inter-discovery; often deep pain that can transform into strength and growth, but often with more pain along the way; banding together with birds of a feather; and giving back what we have learned. Texas criminal defense lawyer -- moved recently from Houston to Maryland -- Eric J. Davis (until he has a website, reachable at eric.davis@gmx.us and 713-227-2727) believes strongly in giving back what he has learned, and in integrating what he learns into what he already knows, rather than shedding valuable experience and ability with the latest teachings. Fairfax, Virginia criminal defense lawyer Jon Katz met Eric at the spring 2026 National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers program, and learned that Eric, like Jon, is a Trial Lawyers College alum, where Eric is on the TLC board and staff. Eric is also a member of the NACDL board of directors. He states straight out that the criminal justice system evolved out of racism, and finds positive ways to deal with that, including bringing race to the attention of jurors so that they will help criminal defendants when they spot racial bias and unfairness. Eric is full of optimistic energy and fight, including in talking about his acquittal for a firearm defendant by focusing on how police rushed to judgment and narrowed themselves to finding evidence to prove him guilty, rather than considering other possible suspects after finding a firearm in an empty vehicle. Eric talks about how his experience with the Trial Lawyers College and its focus on psychodrama and storytelling helped him feel freer in pursuing justice for his clients, including focusing on the emotions of the case, the emotions of the jurors and of the actors in the case and their motivations for how they acted. Eric tells a great personal story during jury selection / voir dire to inspire them to be open about racial issues -- rather than expecting to transform their prejudices in the short timespan of a trial -- by recounting how he had his defenses up when walking to fill his empty gas tank when a truck with an older white driver slowed down, and how the driver -- after they learned how much they had in common -- told Eric how he at first thought Eric was up to no good, and Eric confessed to having first had the same view of the truck driver. And then Eric asks the jurors about any assumptions they are making about race, to start the discussion. Pure brilliance. Rules that help for a fair trial for a criminal defendant are great, but often are few and far between, and are not always sufficiently enforced. That is why I prominently display a Gladiator film clip board in my office, as a reminder of how Russell Crowe's Maximus Decimus Meridius and his teammates win despite the absence of any rules protecting them, and despite the lowest and basest violence from their opponents. Eric Davis reminds us that we can win justice for criminal defendants even when the rules do not appear to be in our favor nor to be sufficiently enforced when those rules are favorable to criminal defendants. He starts by diving deep into the jury selection process, with conversations in which he steers guilty verdict-leaning jurors closer to his side, sometimes by adding one variation to the conversation at a time. (See minute 29 in his presentation here .) We can open and widen avenues to acquittal. This Beat the Prosecution episode is also available on YouTube and Apple podcasts . This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Jurors and others do not get persuaded by brute force, badgering nor begging. Often a criminal defense or other trial lawyer obtains traction by putting themselves in the shoes of the thirteenth juror. When my teacher Gerry Spence was on his road to obtaining an acquittal for Geoffrey Fieger, he reportedly one day walked along the jury rail sweeping his palm alongside its top, as if erasing the barrier between him and the jurors. Fairfax criminal lawyer Jon Katz 's guest on this Beat the Prosecution podcast episode is Wheaton, Illinois, DUI defense lawyer Donald Ramsell . Don does not have the winning charisma of Gerry Spence, but charisma is not mandatory to persuade jurors, as demonstrated time and again by my teacher Steve Rench , who incorporated methodology into winning. Steve was the yin to Gerry's yang, with both at the Trial Lawyers College for at least its first three years. Don synthesizes that methodology with a singleminded drive for knowing and incorporating the essential science, evidence, law, and the persuasive tasks at hand. Don fashions himself as the entertaining tourguide, showing the jurors the path to help them fulfill their oaths, and hopefully delivering an acquittal. Don paints the counterpoint of the uninteresting prosecutor attempting to dissuade the jury from the reasonable doubt that bombards the courtroom walls. Listen as Don talks about a police employee who retired to his home's basement -- rather than a sterile lab -- disastrously to manufacture the simulator solution control mechanism for breathalyzer machines, and how he successfully stymied the blood THC testing regime in Illinois. Don aptly talks about letting judges know that when they do not rule sensibly on the law, Don appeals often enough that they may get reversed. Plenty of Don's appeals are pro bono, to advance legal arguments that will assist his other clients. To boot, Don -- like so many of his National College for DUI Defense colleagues -- generously shares his know-how and wisdom with DUI defense colleagues. Through that generosity, I met Don when I attended an NCDD-sponsored training for lawyers on administering field sobriety testing to subjects who have consumed alcohol, with the teaching led by Anthony Pallacios, one of the nation's leading instructors of FSTs to police officers. Don obtains acquittals in his conservative jurisdiction in part by appealing to jurors' belief in our nation's criminal justice system, which of course includes the presumption of innocence and the burden of the prosecution to prove a criminal defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Don talks persuasively as just folks, and as the real McCoy. This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Winning through engagement as one's true self- Dallas attorney Patrick McLain joins fellow Trial Lawyers College alum and Fairfax criminal lawyer Jon Katz in discussing revealing our true selves -- warts and all -- to jurors and judges, so that they will also be true to themselves and each other and to their oaths. Jon Katz met Patrick -- a Trial Lawyers College faculty member -- through the monthly trial preparation gatherings hosted by fellow Trial Lawyers College alum and faculty member Christopher Flohr . Patrick is a Marine veteran who was a military lawyer and judge, now for many years in private practice for military defense and criminal defense. Patrick discusses applying storytelling and psychodrama approaches to obtaining justice for criminal defendants, and the power of lawyers joining together in pursuing that path. In this talk, Patrick includes discussing the bonds among military members from the rough times they experience, and the bonds among Trial Lawyers College attendees, with our own challenges that we handle in pursuing justice for our clients. This journey can lay bare our raw feelings and emotions, which is often the only way for us to best help our clients. This Beat the Prosecution podcast episode is also available on YouTube , and Apple Podcasts . This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail The Trial Lawyers College -- which your host Jonathan Katz attended in 1995, followed to this day during the year with periodic trial preparation gatherings of TLC alums and others (shout out to our repeat co-host, criminal defense lawyer supreme, and my decades-long friend Christopher Flohr for hosting such monthly gatherings for years at his Maryland law office) -- makes clear that the TLC does not "offer training for those lawyers who represent government, corporations or large business interests." A sizeable chunk of Trial Lawyers College attendees are criminal defense and plaintiffs personal injury attorneys. When Jon learned that National College of DUI Defense leader Andrew Mishlove embraces Trial Lawyers College approaches, Jon Katz invited him to speak on this Beat the Prosecution podcast, to include addressing integrating TLC approaches with winning DUI defense. Andrew exemplifies the truism that there are always more essential lessons to learn. When he was already in his fifties and very accomplished as a DUI defense lawyer, Andrew learned about the Trial Lawyers College and immediately embraced its approach of persuading through storytelling and applying psychodram and scene setting approaches. Andrew is right on point in talking about the story catalyst that Alfred Hitchcock named the MacGuffin, and the hero's journey of the story. He wonderfully weaves My Cousin Vinny and Star Wars in articulating that approach. Andrew also discusses using the Moth storytelling approach (see his article on the Moth here) -- which is covered at the TLC's Graduate II program -- giving credit to Nebraska lawyer Maren Chaloupka , who addresses storytelling as involving the story worth telling, running from extraordinary to every day events that can be transformative. Andrew also here discusses his week-long annual program with the NCDD entitled Serious Science: Advanced Course in Blood Drug Analysis & Trial Advocacy , where in addition to focusing on persuading for justice for the defense in court, the participants have an opportunity to experience blood analysis from the viewpoint and approach of blood examining and analyzing scientists, whether their testimony is for the defense or prosecution. This episode is also available on YouTube and Apple Podcasts . This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Criminal defense lawyers can learn plenty from non-lawyers who courageously and optimistically blaze their own trails, stick to their guns in very challenging times, are resilient, and keep on blazing trails. For Fairfax, Virginia, criminal defense lawyer Jonathan Katz , Miyoko Schinner fits that bill. Miyoko Schinner became a vegan, missed the dairy that she loved with pasta and other dishes, and became a pioneer with Miyoko's Creamery, which quickly went nationwide on major grocery shelves with vegan mozzarellla and other cheese, and butter. Along the way, and with Miyoko's rebellious streak, her company won a 2021 First Amendment-protecting partial federal injunction barring the California government from restricting "Miyoko’s use of 'butter,' 'lactose free,' 'cruelty free,' and 'revolutionizing dairy with plants' on the company’s 'vegan butter'." Around ten years ago, Miyoko founded the animal sanctuary Rancho Compasión (here is the donation link ), which thrives to this day with dozens of rescued animals, several staffmembers, and many students visiting throughout the year. She supports a support forum for women in business. As Miyoko says, she does not promote veganism by such abrasive approaches as throwing blood, but instead invites people to break bread over delicious vegan food, creates vegan cookbooks , brings people on worldwide vegan tours, and co-taught a Berkely college class on plant-centric food systems. When Jon Katz met Miyoko for the second time, at the 2022 Animal and Vegan Advocacy Summit, he did not know that she had been removed (or else was about to be removed) from the very Miyoko's Creamery that she had founded. Unlike Steve Jobs's revolving door with the Apple company he co-founded, Miyoko did not return to Miyoko's Creamery, and pivoted forwards. Criminal defense involves plenty of thrills of victory, agonies of defeat, the lack of any supporters in the courtroom other than those on the defense team, and constant retooling, regrouping and refining on the road to victory. In this Beat the Prosecution episode, Miyoko talks frankly of how she emerged from being ousted from the company she founded (while her marriage was ending, at that), partly through the support and love of people who cared about her, and also from her companion animals. This episode also is on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijpVhPKWswI This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail What do non-ego, blue jeans, and tireless work have to do with beating the prosecution? Join us as Fairfax, Northern Virginia, criminal and DUI lawyer Jonathan Katz talks in depth with Corpus Christi, Texas, trial lawyer Robert C. Hilliard, who was Jon's roommate at the Trial Lawyers College. https://hilliard-law.com Bob got a man released from prison after over two years in jail for a vehicular homicide conviction, where Bob proved that the collision was actually caused by a defective vehicle acceleration. Bob argued right up to the United States Supreme Court for the right to sue a United States Border Patrol agent for his cross-border fatal shooting of a teenager. Hernandez v. Mesa, 589 U.S. 93 (2000) (a 5-4 decision declining to permit such a cause of action for a cross-border shooting). Bob Hilliard pursues victory for his clients without ego, without airs, and with hard and smart work. In this episode, we talk about being authentic and powerfully vulnerable, and about the connections we make with our loved ones, with each other and with jurors. We include discussing our late friend Dax Cowart , and Bob talks about how meaningful it is to have Dax's walking stick in his office. Bob and I have not seen each other in person for years, and here pick up where we last left off, as if it was yesterday. This episode also is available on Apple podcasts . This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Afroman / Joseph Edgar Foreman turned lemons into lemonade (or was that Lemon Poundcake?) after police executed a search warrant on his home and were left without incriminating evidence, unless a few blunts is incriminating. Instead of complaining about that on social media and in letters to newspaper editors, rapper Joseph Foreman turned the camera onto police and included creating and performing songs about the incident, including his humorous "Lemon Poundcake" music video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xxK5yyecRo , featuring footage from Foreman's kitchen security camera, where he opines at how one of the law enforcement officers seems enticed by the lemon poundcake sitting out in the open. Talk about free advertising for the poundcake industry. Granted that Foreman, after the search, also made comments about various police officers involved with the search that they claimed was libelous, but their umbrage even at having their lawfully videotaped actions replayed to the world comes across as hubris. Numerous police officers as a group sued Foreman for defamation and privacy invasion. On March 19, 2026, after several hours of deliberation, the jury rightfully handed Foreman an essential First Amendment victory with a verdict in his favor. In this Beat the Prosecution episode, Fairfax criminal lawyer Jonathan Katz unveils the seeming mystery of Foreman's lawyer David Osborne, Jr. (at least for his having no website) and addresses David's hard work that resulted in this jury verdict that was by no means assured, based on the allegations of falsehoods being told by Foreman about numerous police officers. Good for David for focusing the jury on the very exaggerating way in which Foreman communicates, including with his flamboyant approach to dressing. The bottom line is that police serve the public, and not vice versa. Law enforcement officers should be careful in seeking and executing search warrants, when considering the havoc and invasion of privacy that such actions can cause, and should consider the extent to which a search warrant will not uncover any illegal activity. Police should not seek to intimidate people from exercising their First Amendment-protected free expression by suing them for lawful activity. The YouTube version of this Beat the Prosecution podcast interview is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h95QJickMw Fairfax Criminal Lawyer / Virginia DUI Attorney Jonathan L. Katz pursues your best defense against felony, misdemeanor, DUI, drug, felony and misdemeanor prosecutions, defending in Fairfax County, Arlington, Loudoun, Prince William & Beyond. Call 703-383-1100 for a free in-person consultation with Jon Katz about your court-pending criminal case. KatzJustice.com This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Fairfax criminal lawyer Jonathan Katz believes strongly in finding calm in the eye of the storm while pursuing his criminal defense clients' best defense in court. Among the criminal defense lawyers who struck Jon Katz early on with their ability and devotion to their clients -- and remaining unrattled in court -- is Lenny Stamm . While a law clerk at a general practice law firm, Lenny met his mentor Alan Goldstein, who was known widely in Maryland for his excellence in criminal defense combined with humor and likeability. They became law partners. Alan passed away in 1991, and Lenny continued practicing as the law firm of Goldstein & Stamm. Lenny is very generous of his time with colleagues, and numerous times has taken Jon's calls and emails for finding the path to victory in court. Lenny is a dean of Maryland DUI and criminal defense lawyers, and is very active with the National College of DUI Defense , that Jon belongs to. Check out Lenny's DUI Law treatise. In this Beat the Prosecution podcast discussion, Lenny addresses taking multi-pronged approaches to courtroom wins, including dissecting, analyzing, and synthesizing the law and evidence; approaching seemingly common issues from a fresh perspective; making winning Fourth Amendment and other Constitutional challenges; skillfully cross examining prosecutions witnesses; being resilient with losses and finding ways to transform them into subsequent success; and planting and watering seeds in the minds of those we are endeavoring to persuade. This episode is also available on YouTube and Apple podcasts . This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Conflict prevention coach, TEDx speaker on curing chronic niceness, adviser to inmates, and stress management consultant Joe Weston talks about applying the same taijiquan form that Fairfax criminal defense lawyer Jon Katz practices daily, Fierce Civility and Respectful Confrontation to court and beyond. Check out Joe's books , Global Heart Gathering and TedTalk . Jon Katz has known Joe Weston for years, and recommends his writings, talks and services. This podcast is also available on YouTube and Apple podcast s. This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Chade-Meng Tan when a Google engineer was the company's Jolly Good Fellow (Which nobody can deny) . Meng decided one day on the then-small Google campus to promote world peace, which led to his successfully working with a team to bring mindfulness to Google's engineers and beyond, through the Search Inside Yourself Leadership Institute (yes, Silly). His book Search Inside Yourself addresses that program and mindfulness itself. Following up on mindfulness is Meng's great Joy on Demand book about mindfulness, peace, joy and compassion. Rounding out his book authoriship is Buddhism for All: The Joyful Path to Enlightenment , with co-author Soryu Forall. . Meng's projects also involve his work with Buddhism.net and Billion Acts of Peace Fairfax criminal lawyer Jonathan Katz sought out Meng as an interviewee not only for Meng's infectious optimism, but also for his engaged action in making this world a better and happier place, his at-once fun and beneficial approach and roadmap with mindfulness, and Meng's frankness about his deep depression that preceded his grabbing a lifetime of mindfulness practice by the horns. All of this -- together with Meng's focus on good-natured and often silly humor -- ties in well with Jon Katz's incorporation of mindfulness and his taijiquan marital art into his criminal defense work and helping clients emerge out of the dark places that many of them experience at times while pursuing their best possible court outcome. Mindfulness is not a spectator sport. Some additional great and quick instructions to get started include Jon Kabat-Zinn's Mindfulness for Beginners and his 2007 talk at Google that introduced me to Meng , who blames Jon for his jollyness. This episode is also available on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVYy64AK9Rw This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
Send us Fan Mail Sister Helen Prejean -- author of Dead Man Walking -- (donate at sisterhelen.org/donate ) joins Fairfax criminal lawyer / Virginia DUI lawyer Jonathan Katz and Severna Park, Maryland criminal defense attorney Christopher Flohr about defending those charged with capital crimes and other alleged offenses, humanizing the accused, abolishing the death penalty, pouring our caring and souls into helping criminal defendants, persuading through gripping storytelling, overcoming burnout, enlivening hope, and keeping the fire burning. When Jon Katz first met Sister Helen over thirty years ago, walking up to her with a question about abolishing capital punishment, she drew his soul and forearm to her center and focused Jon on keeping our eyes on the prize of ending the death penalty. Sister Helen has stayed with death row inmates right through the points of their state-sponsored killings. She knows the possibility of changing anyone to becoming a better person and to being persuaded to do right. She has been at this for decades. This episode is also available on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMM6l1uu7ns and at Apple podcasts https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/sister-helen-prejean-of-dead-man-walking-winning-by/id1721413675?i=1000751852528 This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com . For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text). If you like what you hear on our Beat the Prosecution podcast, please take a moment to post a review at our Apple podcasts page (with stars only, or else also with a comment) at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/beat-the-prosecution/id1721413675
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