That's What I Call Marketing

Georgina Leigh-Pemberton, Managing Director of Turner Duckworth London, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss how design builds unmistakable brands, why restraint matters and how to make the business case for a redesign. You’ll understand how to identify the assets worth protecting, bring stakeholders with you and give a brand room to evolve while keeping what makes it recognisable. From Jim Beam’s porch to McDonald’s golden identity and Maker’s Mark’s red wax, Georgina explains how a brand’s history can provide the foundations for its future. We also explore what newer brands can learn from that approach, even when they have no archive to dig through. In this episode, we cover: – How distinctive brand assets support recognition, attribution and marketing effectiveness. – Why successful redesigns need stakeholder consensus and a clear commercial case. – The confidence it takes for established brands to resist chasing design trends. – How global brand guidelines can protect consistency while giving local teams creative freedom. – Why research means listening to consumers, then applying judgement to what you hear. – Where AI can help the design process and why learning the craft still matters. A vital listen for marketers interested in brand strategy, visual identity, distinctive brand assets, agency relationships and marketing effectiveness. That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com PARTNER: TRACKSUIT This episode is supported by Tracksuit, the always-on brand tracking platform. Understand how your brand is performing, follow changes in awareness and consideration, and see how you compare with competitors. Find out more: https://www.gotracksuit.com CHAPTERS 03:34 From medieval history to advertising and design 06:27 Jim Beam: finding a brand world on the porch 08:22 Packaging, Yorkshire Tea and the move into design 10:53 The role of design in marketing effectiveness 13:21 Why design takes patience 14:32 Managing a redesign across complex organisations 15:49 McDonald’s: building consensus around the brand 17:46 Making the business case to CEOs and CFOs 19:09 Bringing clients into the creative process 20:10 Protecting the idea through stakeholder feedback 21:28 Why restraint takes confidence 23:24 Building a new brand without a long history 25:54 Reese’s: global consistency with room to play 27:17 Listening to consumers through research 28:35 Why the work continues after the guidelines 30:03 When brand identities become part of culture 31:09 Knowing what to preserve and what to change 33:20 AI, human craft and developing young talent 38:11 Sharing knowledge and learning from other agencies That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Dee Cunniam, Head of Brand Marketing and Innovation at Britvic Ireland, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss growing iconic Irish brands, leading through change and building a marketing career that keeps moving forward. How do you adapt a much-loved brand without losing what people love about it? Through her work on MiWadi and Ballygowan, Dee explains how consumer insight, product innovation and commercial judgement come together and why 18 years in one business has meant many different careers. In this episode, we cover: – How MiWadi responded when concerns about sugar challenged perceptions of the brand, balancing functional benefits with its emotional connection to families. – The thinking behind MiWadi’s 0% sugar range and why innovation needs to preserve a brand’s distinctiveness. – Ballygowan’s expansion into flavoured and functional water, and what an earlier launch taught the team about consumer readiness. – Moving shopper marketing beyond point-of-sale execution to a more strategic role across brands, customers and commercial teams. – Building influence by understanding other functions’ priorities and demonstrating marketing’s commercial value. – Why sideways moves, category experience and continuous learning can help marketers build broader careers. A useful listen for marketers interested in brand strategy, FMCG marketing, consumer insight, product innovation, marketing leadership and career development. That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com MAKE YOUR MARK — IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE MARKETING INSTITUTE OF IRELAND This is the final episode in our three-part Make Your Mark series, exploring the different ways marketers develop their expertise, build confidence and make a meaningful contribution to their organisations. The Marketing Institute of Ireland supports marketers through its competency framework, professional assessment, certification, ongoing CPD and a network of peers. Thank you to the Marketing Institute for partnering with That’s What I Call Marketing on this series. Find out more: https://mii.ie TIMESTAMPS 02:51 From promotional work to agency life and FMCG 06:41 Britvic Ireland and its portfolio of brands 08:39 Eighteen years in one business, many different roles 09:17 MiWadi: protecting the brand while responding to change 13:00 Functional benefits, 0% sugar and product innovation 15:18 Making the commercial case for brand investment 16:17 Ballygowan: from mineral water to new drinking occasions 17:55 Balancing innovation with the core brand 19:37 How leadership changes as you become more senior 21:23 Giving shopper marketing a more strategic role 23:12 Building influence across the business 24:44 Making time for learning and development 28:53 Squiggly careers, sideways moves and category experience 31:13 What marketing awards mean for the whole team 32:51 The mark Dee still wants to make 34:22 Club Orange, football and having fun along the way That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Make Your Mark: Stephanie Bell, Head of Marketing for Mercedes-Benz in Ireland joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss building commercial credibility, making a global brand relevant locally and earning support for ambitious marketing. You’ll hear what “speaking the language of the business” actually looks like, how Stephanie secured backing for The Traitors Ireland partnership and why building relationships with future buyers matters alongside delivering sales today. When sales fall, pausing marketing can seem like the obvious response. Stephanie shares how she challenged that thinking by starting with the revenue target, working back to the number of customers needed and explaining how marketing would help deliver them. That commercial grounding runs through a career spanning Diageo, Heineken, FMCG, not-for-profit and automotive. It also shaped her approach to The Traitors Ireland: a partnership the business initially turned down, which went on to deliver almost 30 minutes of on-screen car exposure. Stephanie discusses the 40% year-on-year growth in GLC sales that followed, the lessons from the first series and the creation of four locally produced Irish TV ads for the second. In this episode, we cover: – What commercial and trade marketing roles taught Stephanie about customers, margins and making a case for investment. – Working on Orchard Thieves and adapting lessons from Diageo and Heineken to businesses where marketing has to earn its influence. – Securing local and global approval for The Traitors Ireland, with conviction rather than certainty. – Why Irish creative and cultural relevance matter, even when you have a globally recognised luxury brand. – Balancing immediate sales with future demand across Mercedes-Benz and BYD, while responding to electrification and changing buyer behaviour. – Making professional development part of the working day and helping a team build its skills and confidence. A useful listen for marketers interested in brand strategy, sponsorship effectiveness, commercial impact, global and local marketing, marketing leadership and career development. That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com MAKE YOUR MARK | IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE MARKETING INSTITUTE OF IRELAND This is episode two of our three-part Make Your Mark series, created in partnership with the Marketing Institute of Ireland. The series explores different routes through a marketing career and how marketers make their mark through expertise, confidence, continued learning and the impact of their work. The Marketing Institute of Ireland supports marketers through its competency framework, professional assessment and certification, CPD and training. Find out more: https://mii.ie TIMESTAMPS 02:55 Stephanie’s path from commercial roles into marketing 04:47 Learning brand marketing at Diageo and Heineken 06:15 Orchard Thieves and challenging the cider category 07:56 Bringing big-company experience into smaller businesses 10:02 “Sales are down”: making the commercial case for marketing 12:26 Building credibility with commercial stakeholders 13:40 From FMCG and not-for-profit into automotive 15:33 Managing Mercedes-Benz in Ireland: global brand, local market 18:50 The Traitors Ireland: taking the risk and securing support 22:23 Creating Irish TV ads for the second series 23:48 Conviction rather than certainty 25:08 Balancing current sales and future buyers 27:52 Electrification and the better-informed car buyer 28:38 Developing your own skills and supporting your team 32:27 Challenging “we’ve always done it that way” 34:27 Winning Best Entertainment Sponsorship That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Make Your Mark is a three-part series exploring how marketers build their careers and make a difference to their businesses, their customers and the people around them, in partnership with the Marketing Institute of Ireland. In this opening conversation, John Kelly, Retail Marketing Manager at Musgrave, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss his 20-year career working predominantly with SuperValu, and what it takes to turn customer understanding into commercial results. John’s experience shows how much you can learn by taking on different challenges within one organisation. From checking promotional prices as a marketing assistant to delivering campaigns across a network of independent retailers, he explains how attention to detail, curiosity and doing what you said you would do build the credibility to take your next step. We also get into the work behind SuperValu’s “Yes You Scan” campaign. Getting TV, radio, social and in-store communications working together is one challenge; getting the entire business, right down to the checkout, moving towards the same outcome is another. In this episode, we cover: – How John deliberately built experience across value, local marketing, loyalty, sponsorship and retail marketing. – The commercial thinking and business-wide coordination behind Real Rewards prices and “Yes You Scan”. – What independent retailers know about their communities, and how that knowledge complements customer research and sales data. – Keeping SuperValu distinctive while competing on value and delivering short-term sales. – What John learned from micromanaging, and how he now uses trust, accountability and regular feedback to develop his team. – Why the time AI saves should help marketers get closer to customers, alongside the continuing need for creativity and storytelling. A useful listen for marketers interested in career development, retail marketing, brand building, customer insight, marketing effectiveness and leadership. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Consumer understanding and storytelling 00:23 Introducing the Make Your Mark series 03:08 John Kelly’s route into marketing 04:00 Musgrave and SuperValu’s retailer model 05:00 Different roles, new challenges and career development 06:23 Commercial outcomes and attention to detail 08:19 Why John’s team hears “never assume” 10:21 Building credibility by following through 11:00 Real Rewards prices and “Yes You Scan” 12:12 Getting the whole business behind a campaign 13:11 Competition, pace and brand differentiation 15:34 Customer insight and the say-do gap 16:47 Short-term sales and long-term brand building 18:21 Learning to lead without micromanaging 20:10 Mentoring and finding answers as a leader 22:19 The attitude and skills John looks for when hiring 25:37 Using AI to get closer to customers 27:00 Demonstrating marketing’s business impact 28:12 Recognising marketing talent through awards 30:24 Make Your Mark and continuous learning That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com OUR SERIES PARTNER Thank you to the Marketing Institute of Ireland for partnering with us on this series as part of their Make Your Mark campaign. The campaign recognises that making your mark happens throughout your career: as you develop your skills, grow in confidence, take responsibility and help others progress. Across three conversations with marketers working in different organisations and at different career stages, we explore what that means in practice. The Marketing Institute of Ireland helps marketers build their expertise and professional credibility through its competency framework, professional assessment, certification and ongoing CPD. That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Bella Harrison and Ed Parkin from Tracksuit join That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss Grindr’s push into real-world experiences, On’s entry into football and Walkers’ growing brand preference, exploring what each story tells marketers about building brands and measuring progress. Three brands, three different challenges: giving people more reasons to use an app, taking a specialist sports brand to a wider audience, and keeping an established favourite relevant. Conor Byrne, Bella and Ed examine the strategies alongside Tracksuit’s brand health data, discussing what is moving, what remains uncertain and which measures matter. In this episode, we cover: – Grindr’s “Global Gayborhood” ambition: how a surprise Madonna performance, events and broader services support its move beyond a hook-up app, and why its younger audience deserves closer attention. – On’s move into football with Kylian Mbappé and Thierry Henry: building on its running and tennis credentials, competing with Nike and adidas, and the questions facing a premium brand entering the boot market. – The difference between recognising a brand and thinking of it first, and how expanding into another sport could give On more opportunities to come to mind. – Walkers’ brand refresh, new flavours and football partnerships with Lionel Messi, David Beckham and Thierry Henry, alongside a rise in preference from 29% to 36%. – Why flat awareness or usage figures do not tell the whole story, and how audience differences, category context and preference can help marketers make a stronger case for their work. – “What the Actual?”: the discussion around Sydney Sweeney’s Novig campaign, PNC Bank using the Titanic in its advertising, and why the Laughing Cow has stopped laughing. A useful listen for marketers interested in brand strategy, customer insight, experiential marketing, sports marketing, brand building, marketing effectiveness and commercial impact. That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com THE SINGLES — IN PARTNERSHIP WITH TRACKSUIT The Singles is our monthly look at the marketing stories getting people talking, using Tracksuit’s brand tracking data to bring evidence and context to the conversation. A huge thanks to Tracksuit for supporting the series, and to Bella Harrison and Ed Parkin for helping us understand the brand performance behind the headlines. Explore Tracksuit’s always-on, affordable brand tracking platform: https://www.gotracksuit.com TIMESTAMPS 01:50 Grindr: real-world events and the “Global Gayborhood” 02:58 Madonna, community and experiences people share 04:08 What the brand data shows for Grindr 05:33 Reaching younger audiences in a changing dating category 06:41 Putting audience and category data into context 07:37 Giving people reasons to use Grindr beyond dating 09:14 On enters football with Kylian Mbappé 10:08 Building on running and tennis 10:53 Premium positioning and the realities of buying football boots 13:06 On’s brand growth and the opportunity to come to mind more often 14:36 Thierry Henry joins On as Director of Football 15:16 Thierry Henry and Ireland’s long football memory 16:10 Walkers: refreshing an iconic brand 17:45 Why Walkers’ seven-point preference gain matters 19:46 Competing across the wider snacking category 21:25 Familiarity, trust and choosing a brand 22:05 Using brand metrics in budget conversations 23:27 What the Actual? Sydney Sweeney and Novig 25:10 PNC Bank’s Titanic advertising 26:08 The Laughing Cow stops laughing: one to watch That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

On the day he retires from Goodby Silverstein & Partners, co-founder Rich Silverstein joins That’s What I Call Marketing to reflect on 40 years in advertising, the making of ‘Got Milk?’ and what makes an idea last. Rich takes us back to the early days of the agency, when a project for Electronic Arts helped turn a group of creatives who wanted to do things their own way into a business. We get into the thinking behind ‘Got Milk?’, the E*TRADE monkey ad and the lizards, and ask whether work made for a different media era could be even more powerful today. Rich is candid about the role of craft, humour and client confidence, as well as his concern that AI could make it easier to settle for work that is merely good enough. In this episode, we cover: – How Rich, Jeff Goodby and Andy Berlin started the agency, and what they took from their time with Hal Riney – The simple truth behind ‘Got Milk?’ and how its words and distinctive look came together – Why the best campaigns build a brand over time, rather than end with one commercial – What it takes to sell an unusual idea when more people want a say in the work – Rich’s mixed feelings about AI, and how he is using it to develop a musical – Why he tells young creatives to study the world and the people in it A useful listen for marketers interested in brand building, creative effectiveness, advertising craft, agency relationships and AI in marketing. That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Timestamps 00:00 – Rich Silverstein and 40 years in advertising 10:01 – Hal Riney, Electronic Arts and starting Goodby Silverstein & Partners 14:28 – Bringing design, journalism and craft together 15:25 – Why Rich skips most advertising 16:31 – AI and the danger of “good enough” 21:46 – What editorial design and Rolling Stone taught him 24:05 – Why great work should still hold up years later 24:26 – The story behind ‘Got Milk?’ 26:00 – The E*TRADE monkey ad 28:37 – Creative constraints and the need for confident clients 30:36 – The lizards and building a brand over time 33:15 – Using humour to make an idea last 36:32 – Selling ambitious work and working with clients 37:39 – Research, planning and creative collaboration 40:37 – The ideas Rich loved but could not sell 41:59 – 13 Days , his musical project, and using AI to make it 46:47 – Advice for creatives starting an agency today 49:19 – Why the ideas come faster, but selling them remains hard 51:51 – The advertising Rich still admires 52:46 – Mentors, observation and studying the world Thanks to Tracksuit for partnering with That’s What I Call Marketing. Find out more about its always-on brand tracking platform at https://www.gotracksuit.com . That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Gemma Craven, Chief Marketing Officer at Scribd, Inc., joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss her path to becoming a CMO, the value of building experience across different areas of marketing and what it takes to reshape brands, teams and reputations. This episode explores how a varied career across PR, social media, technology, agencies, consultancy and in-house leadership gave Gemma the range required to lead marketing across Scribd, Everand, Fable and SlideShare. It is an honest conversation about career choices that did not always make immediate sense to other people. In this episode, we cover: – How moving between countries, disciplines and organisations shaped Gemma’s approach to marketing leadership – Building Social@Ogilvy New York when many people still believed social media would not last – Why Gemma deliberately moved beyond being known solely as a social media specialist – How working with CMOs at McCann helped her see CMO leadership as a possible destination – Why becoming a fractional CMO was initially viewed as a failure by some people – Restructuring Scribd’s marketing organisation around its products, audiences and areas of expertise – Managing a portfolio that includes Scribd, Everand, Fable and SlideShare – Why brands must actively manage their reputations rather than leave customers, reviews and online communities to define them – Connecting brand strategy more closely with product, engineering, design and customer experience – The thinking behind Scribd’s “Connect the Docs” campaign and the enduring human satisfaction of figuring something out for yourself Gemma Craven has more than 25 years of experience building and positioning global brands. Before joining Scribd, Inc., she led marketing at Melissa & Doug, advised senior leaders at companies including Spotify, Nike, Fiverr and Ford, and led digital brand strategy at McCann New York, where she helped make Fearless Girl a global phenomenon. She also built Social@Ogilvy New York into an award-winning, multi-practice division. A useful listen for marketers interested in marketing leadership, career development, brand strategy, organisational design, reputation management, customer experience and the path to becoming a CMO. That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession.Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com This episode is brought to you in partnership with Tracksuit, the always-on brand-tracking platform that helps marketers monitor brand health and bring a clear, shared view of brand performance into the boardroom. Tracksuit tracks brands across more than 25 markets, making ongoing brand measurement more accessible, visible and useful for marketing teams and senior leaders. Find out more at: https://www.gotracksuit.com The Big Marketing MeetUp Belfast, takes place at ICC Belfast on 5 November 2026, book tickets at: https://www.tickettailor.com/events/bmmubelfast/1935249 Chapters 04:15 – A career shaped by curiosity and working across cultures 06:30 – Moving from London to New York and experiencing culture shock 09:41 – Building Social@Ogilvy New York 16:42 – Why Gemma moved from agency life into technology 19:24 – When becoming a CMO started to feel possible 20:49 – Why varied experience creates better marketing leaders 23:13 – Too ambitious to work for Mick Jagger 24:01 – Choosing the fractional CMO path 28:11 – Restructuring marketing around products and audiences 29:17 – What happens when a brand leaves its story untold 29:48 – Leading teams through organisational change 32:16 – Refreshing the Scribd and SlideShare brands 32:24 – The strategy behind “Connect the Dots” 36:26 – Resisting the pressure to launch a campaign too quickly 38:06 – How brand discovery and reputation are changing That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Conor Byrne hosts another “Singles” episode with Bella and Ed from Tracksuit, using brand tracking data to unpack the biggest marketing stories of the moment—what’s genuinely driving brand growth, what’s just noise, and where brands are taking real risks. From Monzo’s bold “Get Busy Living” brand campaign in a fiercely competitive banking market, to the clever Heinz x Heineken collaboration built for summer BBQ culture, they explore how creativity and brand equity show up in the metrics. They also break down quick-fire eclipse “culture-jacking” wins from brands like Starbucks, Netflix and Mastercard, before debating the backlash and brand danger around Meta-powered Ray-Ban smart glasses. Finally, they launch “What the Actual?”—spotlighting recent brand missteps from Target and a Callaway/Good Good promo—and invite listeners to submit their own. 02:05 Monzo Brand Campaign 13:02 Heinz Heineken Collab 18:37 Solar Eclipse Marketing 22:55 Meta Ray Ban Glasses 27:28 What The Actual Fails Check out tracksuit https://www.gotracksuit.com/ That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

James Hurman, author of Future Demand and co-founder of Tracksuit, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to explain how brand building creates future demand, how performance marketing converts current demand and why marketers need both to drive sustainable growth. This episode offers a practical way to understand how advertising really works, how to build the internal case for brand investment and how marketers can move an organisation beyond a performance-only mindset without betting everything on one dramatic change. In this episode, we cover: – Why James Hurman rewrote Future Demand specifically for marketers – The relationship between brand building, future demand and performance marketing – Why advertising rarely causes an immediate sale but can help a brand win a greater share of future sales – How Instacart CMO Laura Jones “marched up the funnel” from measurable performance activity to the Olympics and the Super Bowl – How Telstra tested a 50:50 brand and performance split in Adelaide and recorded a 14% improvement against the rest of Australia – How marketers can use experiments, geographic holdouts and better measurement to demonstrate incrementality – Why CEOs, CFOs and marketers often want the same commercial outcome but describe marketing investment in very different language – What AI, agentic shopping, AEO and GEO could change — and why the fundamentals of markets, brands and human decision-making still matter James challenges the traditional idea that advertising works by persuading somebody to buy immediately. Instead, he describes a two-stage process: brand advertising creates familiarity and positive bias among people who are not yet in the market, while performance activity helps convert that existing bias when they are ready to buy. He also shares practical examples of how marketers can earn confidence gradually, measure brand investment more rigorously and communicate its commercial value to non-marketing stakeholders. That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com CHAPTERS 03:47 Exploring what a marketing book can be 05:40 Why James rewrote Future Demand 07:39 Creating future demand and converting current demand 08:29 Laura Jones and Instacart’s four-year brand journey 11:03 How Instacart “marched up the funnel” 12:00 Telstra’s geographic holdout test in Adelaide 14:16 Making marketing science easier to understand 16:11 The wrong mental model for advertising 17:44 How advertising creates and converts demand 19:06 Is advertising really a weak force? 20:07 Why the evidence has not changed every organisation 21:43 Winning support from non-marketing stakeholders 23:38 Creating a shared language with CFOs 25:18 Why James remains invested in solving this problem 26:56 How marketing cultures differ across markets 29:53 Better marketing measurement and experimentation 31:27 Using AI to learn and improve marketing capability 34:14 How AI is affecting businesses and marketing 37:21 Will agentic shopping change consumer behaviour? 39:58 Familiarity, emotion and why people choose brands 40:58 What McDonald’s “brand love” metric predicts 42:19 Tracksuit University and the language of the boardroom 44:25 Where to find Future Demand ABOUT JAMES HURMAN James Hurman is the author of Future Demand and The Case for Creativity . He is a co-founder of Tracksuit and founding partner of innovation studio Previously Unavailable. His work focuses on marketing effectiveness, creativity, brand building and helping businesses understand how marketing contributes to long-term commercial growth. Explore Future Demand : https://future-demand.com Learn more about Tracksuit: https://www.gotracksuit.com Visit Tracksuit University: https://university.gotracksuit.com That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Mark Kingsley, brand strategist, designer, author and founder of Malcontent, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss his book "Brands in the Age of AI" and why marketers need to think much more deeply about artificial intelligence than prompts, productivity and tools. Mark’s central argument is that AI is not simply a tool, it is a condition, an environment that is already changing how we work, create, build brands and relate to one another. This conversation explores what that means for brand strategy, creativity, marketing careers and the relationship between companies and customers. Rather than offering another AI how-to guide that could be outdated within months, Mark draws on history, philosophy, psychology, design and technology to understand where AI fits into a much longer story of technological change. In this episode, we cover: – What the Jacquard loom, Charles Babbage, Ada Lovelace, Alan Turing and even *Frankenstein* can teach us about today’s AI debate – AI-driven job losses, automation and the continued commoditisation of creative and knowledge work – Why removing junior-level “donkey work” could create a serious skills and judgement problem for agencies, marketers and professional services – Brian Eno’s idea of “scenius” and why creativity is rarely the product of a lone genius – Agentic AI, B2A2C commerce and what happens when AI agents begin making purchasing decisions – Why brands could use AI to move beyond transactions towards deeper relationships with people – Why human discernment could become more valuable as AI becomes more capable – The danger of treating AI primarily as another system for extracting efficiency and profit – How AI might instead be used to support human flourishing One of the most important questions running through the conversation is what happens to expertise when AI starts doing the work through which people traditionally learned their craft. We also explore what AI means for brands themselves. If brands genuinely want relationships rather than simply transactions, Mark argues AI could help companies recognise people as individuals and members of communities rather than merely customers to extract value from. A useful listen for marketers interested in AI in marketing, brand strategy, creativity, marketing leadership, agentic AI, synthetic research, the future of work, customer experience and the changing role of human judgement. 02:32 Why this is not another AI how-to book 04:36 “AI is not a tool, it’s a condition” 05:43 Technology, Heidegger and what technology reveals 07:38 Is AI already changing society at scale? 08:01 Alan Turing and the history of machine intelligence 09:02 Jacquard looms, the Luddites and automation 11:04 AI layoffs and the economics of replacing people 13:36 AI infrastructure and removing barriers 19:13 Photography, creativity and resistance to new technology 20:18 Why great photographers and creatives still matter 21:24 Brian Eno’s Oblique Strategies 25:18 Agentic AI and B2A2C commerce 26:00 AI personas and purchasing agents 27:02 Tokenisation and the “semiotic gap” between humans and agents 30:48 Why Mark is disappointed by the adversarial AI debate 34:13 What *Brands in the Age of AI* ultimately asks brands to reconsider This episode is brought to you by Tracksuit the always-on brand tracking platform for clients and agencies. Find out more: https://www.gotracksuit.com More from That’s What I Call Marketing That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Meghan Gendelman, CMO, B2B at Canva, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss B2B marketing, enterprise growth, building demand and how Canva is taking a hugely successful product-led business further into the enterprise. This conversation gets into what building a B2B growth engine actually requires: understanding customers, combining product-led and sales-led growth, building brand before buyers enter the market, using data properly and working out where AI genuinely adds value. In this episode, we cover: – Why Meghan believes B2B marketing is anything but boring, particularly when you are dealing with complex buying committees, long consideration periods and multiple decision-makers – Why customer insight still matters more than tools, including Meghan’s experience of using AI to scale content for GEO and discovering that faster content without anything new or useful simply didn’t work – How brand, customer entry points and buying signals help marketers influence customers long before they reach a website or speak to sales – Why Meghan believes every good marketer needs to become comfortable with data, pipeline and the commercial numbers behind the business – How Canva is thinking about AI, LLMs, design, brand governance and integrations with platforms including ChatGPT, Claude and Gemini – What Meghan learned from more than a decade at Salesforce, her time at DocuSign and the process that led her to become Canva’s first B2B CMO – How she leads global marketing teams through clear values, trust, vulnerability and knowing the difference between “smoke” and “fire” We also discuss the changing B2B buying journey, why much of the decision can happen before a buyer identifies themselves, the role of brand in demand generation and why B2B and B2C marketing are becoming less distinct than marketers sometimes assume. A useful listen for marketers interested in B2B marketing, enterprise marketing, product-led growth, demand generation, brand building, AI in marketing, customer insight, sales and marketing, marketing leadership and commercial growth. 02:12 Meghan’s career across Salesforce, DocuSign and Canva 03:03 Why everything starts with the customer 05:44 The AI and GEO content experiment that failed 07:18 Why B2B marketing is not boring 10:30 Leading global marketing teams through values and trust 11:41 Smoke, fire and knowing when leaders need to get involved 12:47 Why Meghan joined Canva 14:46 Canva’s 30–40 hour B2B marketing interview challenge 16:15 Taking Canva from product-led growth into enterprise 17:04 Product-led growth versus sales-led growth 19:47 How B2B buying decisions are changing 22:08 Why every marketer needs to understand data 23:13 Meghan’s Monday morning pipeline ritual 24:21 Learning from other marketing leaders 25:00 Remote work, offices and building global teams 27:39 Why EMEA is not one market 28:40 Keeping Canva simple as the platform expands 29:11 Canva as an AI-powered design platform 30:27 Canva, ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini and the LLM ecosystem 31:47 Building Canva’s B2B and enterprise brand About Meghan Gendelman B2B at Canva, leading its B2B marketing strategy as Canva continues to grow its enterprise business. Before Canva, Meghan held senior marketing roles at DocuSign and spent more than 12 years at Salesforce across areas including customer success, product marketing, growth marketing, field marketing, demand generation and regional marketing leadership. This episode was recorded as part of the That’s What I Call Marketing Cannes Sessions and produced in partnership with The Digital Voice. The Digital Voice: https://www.thedigitalvoice.co.uk/ That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Natasha Wallace, Chief Solutions Officer for Strategy, Planning and AI at Jellyfish, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss how brands can become more visible and understandable to AI without sacrificing creativity, emotion or distinctiveness. This episode explains how marketers should approach the growing challenge of serving two audiences at once: humans, who respond to stories, feelings and ideas, and AI models, which rely on clear signals, context, trust and specificity. In this episode, we cover: – Why Jellyfish’s research found almost no correlation between how humans and AI models judge creative work – What “brand flattening” means and why marketers should resist making everything rational and functional – How to make a brand legible to large language models without weakening its creativity – Why brand trust, distinctive assets and consumer consensus still influence AI recommendations – The role of YouTube, Reddit, creators, ecommerce and digital PR in shaping model perception – Why paid, owned and earned media need to work together in an AI-led discovery environment Natasha also explains Jellyfish’s concept of the “brand echo”: the conversation, reaction and community created around a brand, even when the original activity is not directly visible to an AI model. The practical message is not that marketers need to abandon the fundamentals. It is that audience strategy, brand positioning, content, media and measurement need to work together more closely. The brands most likely to succeed will be clear enough for machines to understand and interesting enough for people to care about. A useful listen for marketers interested in AI in marketing, GEO, brand strategy, creativity, content strategy, advertising effectiveness and the future of search and discovery. That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com **Timestamps** 00:00 Why marketers must not flatten their brands for AI 00:39 Introducing Natasha Wallace of Jellyfish 02:04 Natasha’s career across digital, media and emerging technology 03:35 Why AI feels different from previous industry shifts 05:23 Working globally with Heineken and major sports properties 07:05 Why Natasha joined Jellyfish 09:00 Bringing media, content, creative and AI strategy together 12:32 What humans and AI models see in award-winning advertising 15:31 The danger of brand flattening 16:36 How the “brand echo” influences AI models 17:35 Why brand trust and distinctive assets still matter 20:21 Why YouTube is frequently cited by large language models 22:28 How marketers should prioritise their AI and GEO activity 24:46 Leading and lagging indicators for AI visibility 26:01 The platforms and voices that shape model perception 27:27 Borrowed credibility, belonging and long-term brand associations 30:05 Testing creative work without making it formulaic 32:25 Why AI should strengthen human thinking, not replace it That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com This Cannes Sessions episode is produced in partnership with The Digital Voice. That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Sarah Booth, Chief Brand and Creative Officer at Ancient + Brave, and Leanne Tomasevic, Partnerships and Strategy Director at Electric Twin, examine fear-based wellness advertising, synthetic audience research and the human consequences of marketing built around insecurity. Using the Electric Twin platform live during the conversation, we test real wellness advertisements with synthetic audiences and explore how people respond to messages about ageing, attractiveness, sleep, cellulite and female confidence. The results raise an important question for marketers: are we measuring the commercial value of a sale while ignoring what the advertising costs the person on the other side? In this episode, we cover: – How wellness brands use fear of ageing, shame and insecurity to attract attention – What women and men really think about fear-based wellness advertising – How synthetic audiences allow marketers to test advertising reactions in seconds – Why scientific language can make weak or misleading claims feel more credible – How performance algorithms can reward increasingly negative advertising – The tension between short-term conversion and long-term brand integrity – Why marketers should consider the cultural and emotional impact of their work Advertising that sells through fear can leave vulnerable consumers feeling worse, even when it produces a conversion. Leanne demonstrates how Electric Twin creates digital replicas of real audiences, allowing marketers to run surveys, discussions and message testing with a reported average accuracy of 92%. As brands produce hundreds or even thousands of digital assets, marketers can become focused on feeding the algorithm rather than considering how each message affects the person seeing it. A critical listen for marketers interested in brand strategy, wellness marketing, synthetic research, AI in marketing, advertising ethics, consumer insight, marketing effectiveness, performance marketing and responsible brand building. Timestamps 00:43 Modern wellness advertising and real consumer reactions 03:17 How Electric Twin’s synthetic audience platform works 04:58 Sarah Booth on Ancient + Brave and female confidence 06:25 Leanne Vic explains synthetic audiences 08:17 Why wellness advertising increasingly sells through fear 09:45 Testing a “fear of getting old” advertisement 13:14 How fear-based advertising makes women feel 14:49 Testing the “science of beauty sleep” 18:19 Would consumers actually click on the advertisement? 19:31 The regulatory challenge of digital wellness advertising 21:17 How algorithms create an advertising arms race 22:36 What marketers need to understand about cultural influence 24:00 Why designers think differently about human impact 25:00 Which brands represent female bravery? 27:12 What would make women feel braver? 29:00 Testing cellulite advertising with men 32:00 Can better evidence rescue a damaging advertisement? 34:22 What men think about the way women are marketed to 35:00 Testing a long-form menopause supplement advertisement 36:10 “Dangling hope in front of someone in pain” 36:37 Can platforms make their algorithms more positive? 37:00 Competing without using fear or shame 39:17 The responsibility marketers have for their work This episode is in partnership with Electric Twin. Electric Twin is a synthetic audience platform that helps brands, marketers, product teams and insight professionals understand audiences, test ideas and explore consumer reactions in seconds. Find out more at: https://www.electrictwin.com That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of The Singles on That’s What I Call Marketing, Conor Byrne is joined by Bella and Ed from Tracksuit to unpack the biggest marketing stories right now using brand tracking data. They dive into the AI brand wars between ChatGPT/OpenAI and Claude/Anthropic, including how Super Bowl advertising impacted awareness and consideration, and discuss how people use each tool for work vs personal life. The team shares Tracksuit’s acquisition of Hall, a Sydney startup that measures how brands show up in AI answers, helping marketers understand AI discoverability and sentiment. They also revisit American Eagle’s Sydney Sweeney campaign one year on (awareness gains vs declines in consideration and investigation), break down Norwegian Air’s playful British Airways newsjacking around Norway’s World Cup momentum, and explore Carlsberg’s revival of the “If Carlsberg Did…” platform and what it could mean for brand funnel performance. 01:05 Today’s Marketing Hot Topics 02:11 AI Brand Wars Data 05:27 Who Uses Claude vs ChatGPT 07:52 AI Use Cases and Model Fatigue 12:54 Tracking AI Visibility 17:31 American Eagle One Year Later 21:44 BA vs Norwegian Newsjacking 26:44 Carlsberg Revives Classic Platform Check out tracksuit That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What should marketers take from Cannes Lions once the presentations are over and the real work of planning for Q4 begins? In this special crossover episode of That’s What I Call Marketing and The Sleeping Barber Podcast, System1’s Andrew Tindall and Vanessa Chin join Conor Byrne, Marc Binkley and V to explore what the latest marketing thinking means in practice for brands, agencies and creative teams. The conversation begins with Mark Ritson and Byron Sharp’s Cannes debate, looking at where they agree, where important differences remain and why marketers need to go beyond familiar headlines on penetration, distinctiveness, consistency and brand purpose. Andrew and Vanessa discuss whether distinctiveness alone can drive growth, why differentiation still matters and how the search for “new news” can lead brands to abandon creative assets before they have built recognition. The episode also examines how AI is changing advertising. Rather than removing people from the process, AI is becoming part of production, helping brands adapt and localise ideas more efficiently. The group considers Coca-Cola’s AI Christmas advertising, PepsiCo adapting Lay’s creative for Walkers in the UK, and why human judgement still matters. There are practical lessons on creator marketing, brand characters, fluent devices and staying consistent. Andrew explains why creators should be treated as creative partners who understand their platforms, not as interchangeable media assets. The discussion then turns to audio and radio advertising. System1 research suggests campaigns using audio can produce stronger business effects, support profit and penetration, and reduce price sensitivity. The group explores sonic branding, jingles and why radio should not be treated only as a short-term performance channel. Attention matters, but it is not the end goal. Andrew explains why marketers need to move from impressions, to attention, and ultimately to the brand memories advertising creates. The episode closes with a practical Q4 playbook for Black Friday, Cyber Monday and Christmas. “Salesmanship” may deliver immediate conversion, but emotional “showmanship” builds memories, demand and pricing power. The lesson: focus on the feels, not only the deals. CHAPTERS 03:24 Ritson and Sharp at Cannes 04:45 Distinctiveness versus differentiation 06:00 Is brand purpose outdated? 08:00 Why marketers struggle with consistency 11:05 Turning theory into growth 13:09 AI, creativity and human judgement 16:10 How PepsiCo uses AI in advertising 19:05 Why AI was quieter at Cannes 19:55 AI avatars and brand characters 22:01 Why marketers need to stay the course 22:54 When did a campaign become a media flight? 24:45 Turning Cannes insights into a Q4 plan 25:22 The “Double Double” audio research 28:04 Why audio matters 30:13 What makes an effective radio ad? 32:29 Why radio is more than a performance channel 34:00 Storytelling and creating an audio world 36:50 Should creators work across every channel? 38:00 What System1’s creator research found 40:54 Is Q4 the right time for a fluent device? 42:06 Moving from attention to brand memory 46:36 Can brands be built through Meta and TikTok? 48:49 Why brands need to appear early 50:02 The Q4 marketing playbook 50:43 Make people feel something 51:52 Black Friday: deals versus feels 52:23 Salesmanship, showmanship and short-term optimisation 54:48 What marketers can learn from Amazon 56:26 Feels, not deals 57:01 Why brands should re-air effective Christmas ads 58:00 Consumers do not get bored of good advertising This episode was created in partnership with System1. Find out more at system1group.com. Subscribe to That’s What I Call Marketing for more conversations on brand growth, marketing effectiveness and creative strategy. That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Matt Butts, Head of Marketing Science at Samsung Ads Europe, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss marketing science, incrementality, connected TV measurement and why rigorous testing matters more than a positive result. This episode explains how marketers can move beyond convenient metrics, design better experiments and connect advertising activity to meaningful business outcomes. Matt also explores how changing television behaviours are reshaping media planning, audience measurement and the role of connected TV. In this episode, we cover: – Why marketers often measure metrics without questioning whether they matter – The difference between basic A/B testing and genuine incrementality testing – Why the quality of the test matters more than whether the result is positive – How marketing scientists translate complex analysis into commercial decisions – How Samsung Ads measures viewing across linear television, streaming and gaming – Why reported reach can hide significant audience duplication – How incremental reach can reduce media waste and identify missed audiences – The role of connected TV data in advertising planning and measurement – Why marketers need to communicate measurement differently to CMOs, CFOs and media teams – How rigorous measurement helped one advertiser move from zero investment to a seven-figure commitment Matt argues that marketing science should not simply validate decisions that have already been made. Its role is to challenge assumptions, identify what would have happened without the advertising and give marketers evidence they can confidently use to make better investment decisions. A useful listen for marketers interested in marketing science, advertising effectiveness, connected TV, incrementality, media measurement, experimentation and commercial impact. Timestamps 01:16 How Matt found his way into marketing science 02:19 How advertising measurement has changed 03:27 Are marketers measuring things without knowing why? 04:27 Why measurement assumptions must be tested continually 05:02 Do marketers know how to test properly? 06:00 The limitations of basic A/B testing 06:17 Why incrementality is the missing part of marketing testing 07:18 The importance of statisticians, data scientists and translation 08:13 Matt’s journey to Samsung Ads 08:18 What Samsung Ads does 09:00 How television viewing behaviour has changed 10:18 Balancing audience precision, relevance and scale 11:02 Relevance without intrusive personalisation 12:19 Samsung Ads’ Total View measurement capability 12:36 Audience duplication, incremental reach and missed audiences 13:40 Why platform reach figures can be misleading 14:06 What a Head of Marketing Science actually does 14:40 Building advertiser-specific measurement playbooks 15:16 Using measurement to improve future advertising investment 15:23 How to explain incrementality to senior business leaders 15:41 Why marketers need to understand marketing science 17:00 How measurement feeds into marketing mix models 17:33 A real example of fixing incomplete advertising data 19:00 How a geo test led to a seven-figure investment 19:43 Why negative test results should not frighten marketers 20:40 Combining scientific rigour with commercial thinking 21:51 What comes next for connected TV measurement 22:00 Connecting television and mobile data 23:30 Why marketing measurement must keep pace with human behaviour That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Thanks to the Digital Voice for their partnership https://www.thedigitalvoice.co.uk/ That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Amir Rasekh, Managing Director of Nectar360, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss customer insight, retail media, AI-powered measurement and how agentic commerce could change the way people shop. This episode explains how retail media has evolved from loyalty data, targeted coupons and direct mail into a sophisticated, measurable channel spanning in-store, onsite and offsite media. In this episode, we cover: – Why customer insight remains the foundation of effective retail media – How Nectar360 connects loyalty, insight and retail media in one customer-focused system – Why brands hold retail media to a higher measurement standard than traditional channels – How Nectar360 measures incrementality and multi-touch attribution across omnichannel campaigns – How its AI-powered Pollen platform makes campaign planning, creative production and measurement faster – What agentic commerce could mean for retailers, marketers and customer decision-making – Why AI should support better human relationships rather than remove the people involved Amir also shares early results from Pollen, including 2.5 times more incremental sales from omnichannel campaigns and evidence that retail media can influence the middle and upper parts of the marketing funnel, rather than acting only as a conversion channel. The conversation also explores an important tension for marketers: technology can make retail media simpler, faster and more measurable, but clients still expect strong relationships, expertise and human judgement. A useful listen for marketers interested in customer insight, retail media, marketing measurement, AI in marketing, incrementality, omnichannel strategy and the future of commerce. Timestamps 00:00 Introduction 01:27 Amir Rasekh’s career in retail and Sainsbury’s 04:34 Building an insight-led culture 05:00 What Nectar360 does today 06:06 Why retail media suddenly became so prominent 07:18 The fundamentals of retail media 08:52 Why measurement expectations are increasing 10:28 Introducing Nectar360’s Pollen platform 12:15 Are marketers rigorous enough when testing campaigns? 13:33 How AI accelerated retail media technology 14:21 AI audience building, creative scoring and production 14:38 Cutting creative production from weeks to 90 seconds 14:59 Early results from omnichannel retail media 16:10 Retail media as a brand-building channel 17:05 How customer shopping behaviour is changing 18:00 What agentic commerce means for retail 20:03 Will consumers shop through ChatGPT and AI agents? 22:16 Why physical stores still matter 24:00 How Nectar360’s teams are using AI 25:16 Building AI literacy across an organisation 25:47 Why clients do not want technology to replace people 26:04 Closing thoughts That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com This Cannes Sessions episode is produced in partnership with The Digital Voice. Find out more at: https://www.thedigitalvoice.co.uk That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What does attention actually tell us about whether advertising is working? Pete Wallace, Managing Director EMEA at GumGum, explains why clicks remain a poor measure of advertising effectiveness and how attention can help marketers connect media exposure with real brand outcomes. Pete shares how GumGum combines contextual signals, attention data, time, device and creative performance to predict the mindset of an audience. He brings this to life through GumGum’s work with the BBC and Havas on *Celebrity Traitors*, where targeting and creative changed as tension and excitement around the programme developed. We also discuss why there is no universal number of seconds that guarantees attention, how creative testing can reveal when branding should appear, and why advertising needs to respect the environment in which it appears. The conversation then moves into privacy, the value exchange between advertising and free content, the problem with ad tech companies using the same language, and why marketers need to ask more difficult questions about the technology behind their media plans. Pete also reflects on moving from agency life into ad tech and leading teams across Europe, Japan and Australia, where different cultures require different approaches to pitching, testing and decision-making. ## In this episode, you will learn: * Why attention can be more useful than clicks as a measure of advertising effectiveness * How contextual advertising can predict consumer mindset without relying on personal identity * How GumGum adapted targeting and creative during the BBC’s *Celebrity Traitors* * Why every brand may require a different attention benchmark * How creative attention data can improve branding and message placement * Why advertising works best when it respects the surrounding content * How marketers can test ad technology rather than accepting similar-sounding sales pitches * What Pete has learned from leading teams across different international markets ## Timestamps 01:38 Pete’s journey from media agencies into ad tech 03:23 The difference between agency life and working in sales 05:33 What GumGum does and how the business has developed 06:00 Using data signals to predict consumer mindset 06:55 How GumGum worked on the BBC’s *Celebrity Traitors* 08:46 Why attention has always influenced media planning 09:25 Connecting attention to business and brand outcomes 10:21 How GumGum measures attention 11:15 Why there is no universal attention benchmark 11:23 Using attention data to improve creative execution 12:45 Matching advertising to the environment around it 13:34 Why brands are asking more questions about ad technology 14:33 Where GumGum fits within the modern media plan 14:40 Why marketers need greater digital and technical knowledge 15:12 Are marketers rigorous enough when testing media? 16:00 The problem with every ad tech company sounding the same 17:00 Why campaign learning needs to feed into future activity 17:42 Leading teams across Europe, Japan and Australia 18:23 How culture changes client expectations and ways of working 20:01 Balancing global consistency with local flexibility 21:23 What international markets can learn from one another *The Cannes Sessions are brought to you in partnership with The Digital Voice.* That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

James MacDonald, Founder of Limelight, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss programmatic advertising, building a global ad tech business, AI and why simplicity still matters for marketers today. This episode explores the journey from Fleet Street advertising sales to modern programmatic technology, through a practical conversation about risk, reinvention, customer focus, remote culture and building technology that solves real problems. In this episode, we cover: – What Fleet Street taught James about sales, resilience and asking for the business – Why helping people buy is more powerful than pushing people to buy – How James identified the gap that led to Limelight – Why programmatic advertising still needs simplicity, support and better execution – How Limelight thinks about AI, interoperability and the importance of human judgement – What it takes to build and maintain a strong remote culture across a global team A useful listen for marketers interested in ad tech, programmatic advertising, AI in marketing, founder stories, sales, customer success, remote teams and building through change. That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com This Cannes Sessions episode is brought to you in partnership with The Digital Voice. Find out more at: https://www.thedigitalvoice.co.uk 01:38 Starting out on Fleet Street 03:19 What early sales teaches you 04:35 From eggs to advertising 06:27 Helping people buy, not pushing a sale 07:04 Mentors, mistakes and learning through failure 07:11 Starting again and founding Limelight 09:31 Finding the right business partner 10:59 Identifying the gap in programmatic 12:00 Building the Limelight platform 14:00 Taking risks as a founder 15:59 Building culture as the company grows 16:42 Running a fully remote global business 18:17 What Limelight does 20:49 How people discover Limelight 22:16 Listening to customers and building the product 23:33 AI, human judgement and interoperability 26:05 Why simplicity matters in technology That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Julia Linehan, Founder and CEO of The Digital Voice, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to discuss Cannes Lions, the changing role of PR, AI search, trusted sources and why amplification matters for marketers today. This episode explores how brands, agencies and marketing leaders need to think about discoverability in a world where search, AI, content and credibility are all changing at pace. In this episode, we cover: – Why The Digital Voice describes itself as an amplification partner, not a traditional PR agency – How AI search and LLMs are changing the value of trusted, published content – Why consistency, repetition and clear messaging matter more than ever – What it takes to plan properly for Cannes Lions and create real value from the week – How Julia has built a fully remote team with strong culture, energy and trust – Why Cannes needs to stay accessible for students, publishers, creators and smaller businesses A useful listen for marketers interested in PR, brand visibility, AI in marketing, thought leadership, Cannes Lions, agency leadership and the future of discoverability. That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Visit the Digital voice at https://www.thedigitalvoice.co.uk/ That’s What I Call Marketing is where marketers come for real conversations about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Hosted by Conor Byrne, the show features conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, authors, thinkers and practitioners about what good marketing looks like in practice. Listen, follow and find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com Connect with Conor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/conorbyrneirl/ If you enjoy the show, please follow, subscribe and leave a review. It helps more marketers find the conversations. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.