Enter the Boardroom is the podcast of the Enter the Boardroom Community. Each week, Nurole CEO Oliver Cummings sits down with leading Chairs, board members, CEOs and academics, drawing out the insights and hard-won lessons that rarely get shared in public. If you enjoy the podcast, the Community goes much deeper. You'll sharpen your board proposition, build a network of serious peers, stay current on the issues reshaping boardrooms, and access opportunities you won't find anywhere else. Visit etb.nurole.com to find out more. Listeners get a 10% discount by applying the code ENTER at checkout.
184. Gavin Patterson: How boards make or break a CEO - lessons from the BT boardroom
Why becoming a NED made Gavin a better CEO (01:33) The advice Gavin would give himself looking back (09:12) How to unlock the high-flying CEO who always thinks they’re right (14:34) The two warnings Gavin ignored before BT fell apart (18:27) The truth about his departure from BT (21:46) Why Gavin doesn’t agree with ‘I’ll back you ‘till I sack you’ (26:41) What everyone could learn from PE firms about senior appointments (30:29) Gavin’s advice on firing a CEO (34:21) ⚡The Lightning Round⚡(36:11) Enter the Boardroom Community questions (40:47) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
183. Ian Filby: Power in the boardroom: PE control, public scrutiny & activist pressure
Ian Filby spent almost 30 years at Alliance Boots before becoming CEO of DFS. He then served as Chair at Joules and Pendragon, where he navigated activist shareholder pressure. Listen to this episode to learn about: What private equity taught Ian about how boards should behave (01:34) The danger of drifting from data to anecdote (05:36) The KPI mistake that leaves boards blind to the future (08:04) Why Ian had an operating board and a strategy board (10:36) The warning signs your bank may not back you when it matters (17:20) The private equity lesson every PLC board should steal (19:33) How Ian handled an activist investor, a blocked takeover and a boardroom revolt (23:14) Why Ian stepped down as chair (29:02) How to handle activist-investors (30:05)⚡The Lightning Round⚡(34:26) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
182. Celia Huber: The complete guide to AI in the boardroom
Celia Huber is a Senior Partner at McKinsey & Company and leads McKinsey's boards services work in North America. Celia also serves on the executive committee of the California Business Roundtable, is a board member of AMN Healthcare and is a trustee of the AltaMed Foundation. Tune into this episode to learn about: The two questions that reveal where your board really stands on AI (01:27) The stat that shows how far behind most boards are on AI governance (09:00) Business pioneer, pragmatic adopter, internal transformer or functional reinventor: which AI archetype are you? (10:42) The five value levers that reveal where your AI opportunity actually is (16:13) How McKinsey builds its own AI tools instead of just relying on existing ones (23:45) How boards are using AI in the boardroom (26:30) Transparency, access, and risk: the three things boards get wrong about AI guardrails (30:50) The six-month AI learning journey every board should design (36:20) The one change Celia would make to improve any board by 20% in a year (38:08) ⚡The Lightning Round⚡(41:37) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
181. Chris Murray MBE: How board members succeed in high-risk-high-regulation environments
Chris Murray MBE has chaired National Grid Gas plc, National Grid Electricity pls and National Grid Gas Holdings. He now sits on the board of SGN. Listen to this episode to hear about: What Chris got wrong about boards early in his career (01:28) The most common mistakes first-time NEDs make (02:55) How Chris defuses a board disagreement before it reaches the table (08:10) Four things to know before joining a regulated board (14:58) Which of privatisation, liberalisation and decarbonisation did boards handle worst? (19:30) The three phrases Chris never wants to hear in a boardroom (28:14) How to know if your safety culture is real or just rhetoric (31:17) The moment that made safety personal for Chris (38:06)⚡The Lightning Round⚡(41:17) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
180. Betsy Atkins: Key lessons from 38 public company boards across four continents
Betsy Atkins has sat on more than 38 public company boards, been through 17 IPOs, and has done it all while running three companies of her own. She co-founded Ascend Communications and took it to a $23 billion acquisition by Lucent. She's also the author behind 'Be Board Ready' and 'Behind Boardroom Doors'. Tune in to this episode to learn more about: Why every board member should take the Hippocratic oath (01:28) The superpowers Betsy looks for in every executive (04:45) What she would do differently if she started her board career again (06:51) The day the FBI walked into Betsy’s boardroom (08:08) How she stress-tests a board candidate's character (12:47) The moment Betsy knew she had to leave HealthSouth (16:32) What happens when an AI agent goes rogue in your company (23:50) How to upskill a board that thinks AI is just a buzzword (28:49) How boards are using AI in the boardroom (33:36) What Betsy does differently to stay at the top of her field (35:27)⚡The Lightning Round⚡(37:23) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
179. Gareth Penny: Diamonds and Coal: Governing when the odds are stacked against you
Gareth Penny spent 22 years at De Beers, joining the board in 2003 and serving as Group CEO from 2006 to 2010 during which he dismantled over a century of supply-side monopoly. From 2013 to 2022 he was Independent Chair of Norilsk Nickel, winning Russian Chairman of the Year in 2016, and from which he resigned following the invasion of Ukraine. Listen to this episode to find out more about: Why being the world's biggest diamond monopoly was almost worthless (01:52) The people inside a business are the last to see what's wrong with it (06:20) Governing a boardroom with a government, a corporate and a family in it (11:20) The advice Gareth gives any CEO about to reinvent their company (14:36) What a fit board and a great sportsman have in common under pressure (20:36) The secret to a calm boardroom (24:42) Why the chair should always be the last person to speak (27:21) How a board handles one of the worst oil spills in Arctic history (30:15) The board function Gareth thinks almost every company is missing (35:36) ⚡The Lightning Round⚡(37:55) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
178. The Rt Hon Justine Greening: The talent question most boards are not asking, from Rotherham to Westminster
The Rt Hon Justine Greening has served as Economic Secretary to the Treasure and later held three Cabinet posts. She left the Cabinet in 2018 to found the Social Mobility Pledge, now the largest business campaign of its kind with over 800 organisations covering more than eight million people. Tune in to this episode to hear about: The childhood lesson that drove Justine Greening into politics and the boardroom (01:48) What the England squad has to do with your hiring strategy (07:38) The three things every organisation can do on social mobility starting tomorrow (10:08) Social mobility isn't just for multinationals: here's what smaller organisations can do (18:29) Justine on corporate Britain's progress on social mobility (22:58) How to get your board to actually act, not just talk about it (27:34) Why getting the first NED role remains so difficult (37:59) The reason boards hire NEDs is rarely where they end up adding most value (39:58) ⚡The Lightning Round⚡(41:57) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
177. Natasha Christie-Miller: "Sell the hell out of it" - why boards need to be more focused on commercial reality
Natasha Christie-Miller has spent her executive career building, transforming and ultimately selling some of the UK's most valuable B2B intelligence and media businesses. She was CEO of Emap and is now Chair of Sifted, the FT and PE-backed startup media business. Listen to this episode to hear more about: The 25-year decline nobody at Emap had spotted (01:33) The three pillars every CEO should focus on in sales (10:46) Why a board is like a personal trainer for CEOs (19:18) The grumpy, entitled board member who didn't last long (21:23) The one question Natasha says boards don’t ask enough (23:19) The four reasons people go to B2B events (27:07) Year one vs year five: what your churn pattern is actually telling you (33:05)⚡The Lightning Round⚡(34:41) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
176. Karen Morton: Family businesses generate 70% of global GDP: why most don’t have boards, and how those that do work
Karen Morton is NED on the boards of daa plc (which operates Dublin and Cork airports), Shaws Department Stores and Fanagans Funeral Directors, two of Ireland's most established family-owned businesses, and Golf Ireland. Listen to our this episode to learn about: What makes family business boards fundamentally different (01:05) The five moments that push a family business to finally get a board (07:25) Karen’s playbook for your first 90 days of joining a family business board (10:38) The hidden family dynamics that can derail board decisions (15:14) When doing the “wrong” thing commercially is actually right (19:40) How to navigate emotional boardroom deadlock (25:24) How to challenge the family while keeping trust intact (28:00) The most difficult boardroom challenge in a family business (33:12) What to do when a high-performing family executive is toxic (35:06) ⚡The Lightning Round⚡(39:36) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
175. Dhiraj Mukherjee: Co-founder of Shazam on the board lessons from an 18-year journey to a $400m exit
Dhiraj Mukherjee is co-founder of Shazam, where he helped grow the business into a global platform with over 100 billion uses, before it's acquisition by Apple for over a reported $400m. Tune in to the newest episode of Enter the Boardroom to hear about: The three toughest boardroom calls in Shazam’s 18-year journey (01:28) Why Dhiraj would talk his younger self out of starting Shazam (06:27) The "outside-in" perspective every founder needs from their board (09:45) The pricing lesson that saved Shazam The moment Shazam sold its own technology to survive (12:28) What Roger Federer's 55% winning rate teaches boards about backing founders (24:13) Why one bad result doesn't mean a bad strategy - the Arsenal lesson for boards (30:38) The missing voice on Shazam's board that could have saved them years The one board member Shazam never had, and what it cost them (32:29) Why the bottleneck isn't AI, it's you. (36:12)⚡The Lightning Round⚡(41:47) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
174. Sir John Kingman: Why boards need more misfits - lessons from the financial crisis
Sir John Kingman is Chairman of Legal & General and Barclays Bank UK. In 2018, he led the landmark independent review of the Financial Reporting Council (the Kingman Review) which called for the abolition of the FRC and its replacement with a new statutory regulator. Listen to this episode to hear about Sir John's experience: Running towards the fire: what separates boards that cope from boards that collapse (01:51) Why the RBS board was too big to save itself (06:52) The truth about culture in banks that most boards miss (08:01) The collective failure of imagination that brought the banks down (11:00) Why boards needs more weirdos (14:42) The Kingman Review: why the UK has the best rules and some of the worst companies (16:58) What Sir John thinks makes a truly effective NED (23:47) The three question he asks every potential NED (26:35) Why new NEDs should never try to fit in straight away (28:12)⚡The Lightning Round⚡(31:51) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
173. Andy Higginson: Laura Ashley's near collapse, Tesco's legendary strategy and turning round Morrisons
Andy Higginson is Chair of JD Sports Fashion plc. Previously, he was Chair of Wm Morrison Supermarkets plc and a non-executive director at organisations including Tesco, Sky, Clarks, FirstGroup and Woolworths. Listen to this episode to hear about: The three boardroom moments that shaped Andy's career (01:06) What a near-bankrupt Laura Ashley taught him about simplicity and focus (03:58) The Laura Ashley banking crisis that changed Bank of England policy (07:18) The four strategy Tesco pillars (09:54) Inside the Tesco succession that went wrong (14:35) Why a new CEO should keep their rivals (18:23) What every retail NED should do when they first join (21:36) The first thing Andy did when he arrived at a struggling Morrisons (25:58) Morrison’s acquisition by private equity (31:35)⚡The Lightning Round⚡(36:46) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
172. Danuta Gray: What nobody tells you about the Chair-CEO relationship (2/2)
Danuta Gray is Chair of Croda plc and NED and Chair of the Remuneration Committee at Burberry Group plc. Previously, she was Chair of Direct Line Insurance Group plc during its acquisition by Aviva. Tune into this episode to hear about: How Danuta has improved on CEO hiring (01:46) The importance of staying curious about AI (06:42) Why every board waits too long to change their CEO (08:01) Why Danuta looks internally first when a CEO blames external headwinds (11:56) The board decision that has nothing to do with right or wrong (13:59) What to do when you think the CEO needs to go but the Chair disagrees (20:40) Why Danuta learns more from Gareth Southgate than a remuneration roundtable (25:21) ⚡The Lightning Round ⚡ (28:59) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
171. Danuta Gray: The hardest decisions a Chair has to make (1/2)
Danuta Gray is Chair of Croda plc and NED and Chair of the Remuneration Committee at Burberry Group plc. Previously, she was Chair of Direct Line Insurance Group plc during its acquisition by Aviva. Listen to this episode to learn about: The formative board experiences that shaped how Danuta operates today (01:03) The criminal case that showed her what great chairs are made of (05:14) Why she always doubles the time commitment she's given for a board role (07:31) What witnessing fraud taught Danuta about boardroom groupthink (08:16) What every chair gets wrong in a takeover approach (13:22) A takeover bid doesn't have to damage your business (18:32) How to block out the noise and make the right call under pressure (22:43) The question every board forgets to ask before recommending a deal (28:11) Why every new chair should force their way in to meet shareholders (35:38) Danuta's three rules for surviving your first unsolicited bid (39:00) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
170. Julian Metcalfe OBE: founder of Pret and Itsu - why most boards fail founders
Julian Metcalfe OBE is the founder of Itsu and Pret. Alongside these, he is also founder of the Metcalfe Food Company and NED at Knoops Chocolate. Tune into this episode to here about: Why traditional ideas of good governance frustrate Julian (01:26) Why it’s important that board members are willing to be unpopular (04:54) One key lesson Julian would pass on to his successor (07:14) The actual purpose of boards (09:22) How obsessive quality control built and sustained Pret and Itsu (12:33) The Pret ritual that kept the whole business honest (14:12) The counterintuitive Pret rules that built a loyal customer base (14:58) The short–termism trap that's killing most boardrooms (18:19) How to balance the focus vs. choice dynamic (25:24) Why two 24 year olds gave away 30% of Pret for free (27:56) The detail behind Itsu's most affordable product (31:31) How Julian would describe his approach to building successful companies (35:15)⚡The Lightning Round ⚡(40:10) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
169. Laura Hagan: What boards get wrong about people: founders, talent and pay
Laura Hagan is CPO at Deliveroo and NED at Fever-Tree Drinks plc, where she chairs the Remuneration Committee. Previously, Laura has help senior people leadership roles a Gymshark, Tate & Lyle and Dyson. Listen to this episode to learn more about: The three moments that shaped how Laura thinks about boards (01:31) Board composition differences from private to PE to listed companies (05:06) What every board member needs to know before working with a founder (07:40) What Laura looks for when hiring a NED (12:45) The high ego low ego framework for hiring board members (15:26) The crisis playbook every board needs (17:14) The hidden people risk every fast-growing business ignores (21:50) What RemCo meetings are really like (26:59) Laura’s tips on what makes the best pay (32:39) Why your retention scheme might be working against you (35:02)⚡The Lightning Round ⚡(38:21) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
168. Peter Norris: Leading through crisis: Barings Bank and Virgin Atlantic's Covid fight for survival
Peter Norris is Chair of the Virgin Group. Formerly, he was CEO of Barings Bank during its fateful collapse in the mid 1990s. Listen to this episode to hear about: Three moments that shaped how Peter behaves in the boardroom (00:59) Why Peter took responsibility for a fraud he didn’t commit (11:23) The one question every board should ask when the numbers look too good to be true (14:27) How fraud gets stronger every day it goes undetected (16:11) The moment Peter Norris knew Virgin Atlantic might not survive (18:01) What a Chair should do when their company is facing extinction (19:07) The four buckets Virgin Atlantic focused on to survive COVID (22:15) The Richard Branson PR disaster (23:50) How Virgin Atlantic saved itself with no shareholder and no government support (24:54) Peter’s thoughts on Brexit (29:15)⚡The Lightning Round ⚡(33:04) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
167. Claire Bassett: What you need to know before joining a public sector board
Claire Bassett is Chair of The Property Ombudsman and the Serious Fraud office and Registrar of Consultant Lobbyists. She has extensive board experience on government, public sector and arm’s length boards. Listen to this episode to hear about: The moments that have shaped how Claire operates as a board member (01:07) Why the most supportive Chairs are also the most challenging (04:23) The three things you need to understand before joining an Arm’s Length Board (ALB) (08:01) Where first-time government NEDs go wrong (11:08) Why the best NEDs do their challenging before the meeting even starts (14:46) Boards have to know when stopping things is more valuable (17:30) The bravest thing a board can do (20:19) The biggest challenges of being on an ALB (22:12) The NED’s responsibility during a media storm (24:03) How to build a portfolio in the ALB landscape (28:31) Claire’s key advice to take into your next board interview (33:38) ⚡The Lightning Round ⚡ (36:44) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
166. Simon Calver: From LoveFilm to Mothercare: The board behaviours that make and break companies
Simon Calver is best known for his time as CEO of LoveFilm. He was then CEO of Mothercare plc. Tune in to this episode to hear about: The three choices that most shaped LoveFilm’s growth journey (01:23) How LoveFilm's board dealt with a hostile merger (05:53) Why Chairs should never be an investor directors (09:16) The most empowering thing a board can say to a CEO (11:16) How Simon knows if a business is customer-centric (13:25) Why appointing a customer NED is the worst thing you can do for your customers (15:45) The problem Mothercare was facing when Simon joined as CEO (17:51) Why boards should stress-test assumptions (23:24) The cautionary tale of the CEO couldn’t speak to his Chair (25:30) What the first item on every board agenda should be (27:26) How to fix a broken founder-board relationship (28:42) ⚡The Lightning Round ⚡ (36:42) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
165. Rachel Carrell: What founders need from their boards
Rachel Carrell is CEO of KoruKids, a UK-based childcare company which has delivered 4 million hours of childcare. Previously, she was CEO of DrThom. Listen to this episode to hear about: The most difficult board discussion Rachel has had (00:55) How to guide a founder without overstepping (03:35) Why sharing your experience is more valuable than giving advice (06:49) Three most significant boardroom moments from Rachel’s Koru Kids journey (09:16) The benefits of a PR crisis (11:36) Why emotional support is an important governance tool (15:27) How industry outsiders add value on boards (17:33) Why board members shouldn't stay high level (22:46) The 3 different buckets of board value (25:58) The positives of having only investor directors on your board (28:48) Why boards need to think more about supporting parents (34:43) ⚡The Lightning Round ⚡(37:41) Host : Oliver Cummings Producer : Will Felton Editor : Penelope Coumau Music : Kate Mac Audio : Nick Kold Email: podcast@nurole.com Web : https://www.nurole.com/nurole-podcast-enter-the-boardroom
