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Published by Passle
The must-listen podcast for professional services marketers, featuring conversations with leading voices in business development and marketing across the sector. Each episode explores practical strategies for building authentic visibility, improving effectiveness, and unlocking new growth opportunities in a changing market. Produced by Passle, the platform behind the Thought Leadership Suite and CrossPitch AI, built to power thought leadership and cross-selling for the world’s leading professional services firms, including Ropes & Gray, Linklaters, Quinn Emanuel and many more. Find out more at passle.ai .
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Last week you heard from Grasford Smith, a Litigation Partner and Co-Chair of the lateral integration programme at Akerman, to hear his insights on two good things that have worked for the programme and one thing that he and his Co-Chair would avoid doing again. This week we’re bringing you another exciting episode of 2 Good 1 Bad. Connor Kinnear sits down with Craig Budner, CEO of Budner Performance Group and former Global Strategic Growth Partner at K&L Gates, who had a front‑row view of a major law firm merger, guiding Hughes and Luce through integration and seeing firsthand how firms grow through both merger and lateral expansion. With Craig’s 25+ years of experience, he shares the importance of connecting lateral integration with business development, holding laterals accountable through both leading and lagging indicators, and the costly lesson of skipping due diligence during a period of urgent hiring.
Only last month we launched CMO Series: Laterals & Mergers, a podcast dedicated entirely to how law firm marketers and BD leaders navigate the complexities of lateral recruitment and firm mergers. This month we present to you the short form podcast of Laterals & Mergers: 2 Good 1 Bad. We bring on leaders from law and professional services firms to talk about the two good things they have done to drive successful lateral integration or merger, and one bad thing that they or the firm would not do again. To kick us off, Connor Kinnear was joined by Grasford Smith, a Litigation Partner and Co-Chair of the lateral integration programme at Akerman, a role he's held for the past four years alongside a fellow partner in the firm's New York office. Grasford shares insights including welcome videos that go beyond the CV, a structured, stakeholder-mapped onboarding checklist, and the risk of assuming a good programme stays good.
Every law firm claims to prioritise collaboration, yet very few have figured out how to turn it into real, measurable revenue growth. Today on the CMO Series: Laterals & Mergers, host Connor Kinnear, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Passle, is joined by two of the world's leading experts on smarter collaboration in professional services, Heidi Gardner, Distinguished Fellow at Harvard Law School and bestselling author, and Ivan Matviak, Co-founder of Gardner & Co. and CEO of Smarter Collaboration International. Together they unpack what the data really says about collaboration and lateral integration, and what CMOs and BD leaders can actually do to turn it into a genuine growth driver. In this episode Heidi and Ivan discuss: The single most important research finding every law firm leader needs to hear about collaboration and growth What an outsider's view from banking, consulting and consumer businesses reveals about blind spots in legal BD Why top firms are shifting from hiring for books of business to hiring for talent, and what that means for recruiting Where firms typically get stuck turning anecdotal knowledge about growth opportunities into action How the data quantifies the link between collaboration and revenue, and where the biggest missed opportunities are The early warning signs that a lateral hire is failing to integrate, and how much of that comes down to culture versus individual fit Their closing advice for CMOs and BD leaders building the case for a smarter collaboration initiative
Lateral hiring is currently at an all time high and the cost of getting it wrong runs into the billions, so why are firms still making critical hiring decisions without using the right tools to get it right. This week on CMO Series: Lateral and Mergers, we are pleased to share this brand new episode. Eugene McCormick is joined by Mark Levin, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Marshall Gerstein, Chicago's largest IP boutique firm. Mark has spent his career studying what makes legal talent succeed or fail, and led him to run a psychometric assessment company working with NFL Combine teams and AmLaw 250 firms. Mark shares his journey into talent assessment and development, what the legal profession still gets wrong about lateral hiring, and why IP attorneys present a unique challenge for any BD leader. Mark and Eugene dive into: His journey from law into psychometric assessment, and what the NFL Combine taught him about predicting talent What the legal profession still gets wrong about lateral hiring Why the true cost of a bad lateral hire runs so much deeper than the recruiting fee Why IP attorneys present a unique challenge for any BD leader What it actually takes to build a business development culture that sticks The tools firms need, but rarely use, when making high stakes hiring decisions
Law firms can no longer just coast on stability anymore, they need to start actively building momentum. Marketing leaders are expected to evolve alongside the business, modify strategy around lateral growth, and provide value through data. As part of our CMO Series: Laterals & Mergers sub-series, we're revisiting this conversation between Eugene McCormick and Kathryn Whitaker, Chief Marketing Officer at Burr & Forman, on how her strategic approach has evolved since her first appearance on the podcast back in 2022. Kathryn broke down how marketing can support opportunistic growth, why firms are shifting toward outcome-driven metrics, and why mid-career attorneys may be the biggest missed opportunity in law firm growth strategy today. In this episode Kathryn discusses: Law firm growth through strategic scaling Lateral integration to build long-term success The importance of data-driven storytelling to inform decisions AI's practical impact on efficiency and visibility The under leveraged investment in mid-career attorneys
Growth means different things depending on where you sit in a law firm. For lawyers, it's often about winning new work and deepening client relationships. For marketing and BD teams, it's about building the infrastructure, content and hiring strategy that makes that growth possible at scale. Bridging those two perspectives is increasingly becoming a role in its own right. As we continue to revisit standout episodes from the main podcast, today on CMO Series: Laterals & Mergers, we're looking back at a conversation Charles Cousins had with Craig Budner, former Global Strategic Growth Partner at K&L Gates, now CEO of Budner Performance Group. Craig explored what that bridging role looks like in practice, and how it drove growth across an international firm. Charles and Craig dive into: What a Global Strategic Growth Partner actually does The thinking behind launching the K&L Gates Client Conversations podcast Where the biggest growth opportunities lie for an international law firm How marketing and BD teams can support lawyers to build client relationships at scale What makes a strong lateral hire Key advice for firm leaders looking to grow their firms
Mergers can provide huge growth opportunities for law firms. Navigating a merger can also present challenges, but marketing and BD teams are well-positioned to help guide and influence a firm's strategic direction and identify new or emerging markets. Today on CMO Series: Laterals & Mergers, we are continuing to revisit stand out episodes that touch on the topics of lateral hires and law firm mergers. We are thrilled to be re-releasing an episode with Adam Severson, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Baker Donelson, to share his insights on taking advantage of market opportunities and the key factors that influence the success of a merger. In this episode Adam discussed: His background and career journey to his role now at Baker Donelson The point at which he recognised the huge potential of law firm mergers in providing business development opportunities The current landscape for firms when it comes to merger activity The role of marketing and BD in influencing strategic growth and taking advantage of new or emerging markets The key success factors that indicate if a merger will be successful or not Advice for marketing BD professionals looking to successfully influence mergers and capitalise on growth opportunities
It's well documented that better client-based collaboration can boost business development results and build stronger, long lasting relationships between law firms and their clients. What isn't as clear is how firms can turn that collaboration into a real payoff when it comes to lateral hiring. Today on the CMO Series: Laterals & Mergers, we are revisiting an episode with Dave Southern, former Chief Marketing & Business Development Officer at Choate, Hall & Stewart LLP, now Director of Communications at Mayer Brown, to discuss how greater client collaboration can make lateral hiring pay off. In this episode Dave discusses: His career journey so far and how his experiences have influenced his philosophy on client collaboration Why closer client collaboration is so important How to improve the results of lateral hiring How to apply this process to all clients of the firm and examples of how this has worked How this approach fits within the overall go-to-market strategy of the firm Advice for legal marketing and BD professionals looking to improve their client collaboration
Marketing and communications play a pivotal role in successfully launching the news of a law firm merger. Being able to strike the right balance between client-centric narratives, internal messaging, brand management, and PR is a fine art. As part of our new CMO Series Laterals & Mergers series, we're revisiting this key conversation between Will Eke and Will Brewster, former Head of Communications at Clyde & Co, now Leadership Communications Consultant. Will has first-hand experience successfully launching the news of a law firm merger. In this episode, he walks through the different stages of Clyde & Co's merger with BLM from a communications perspective, sharing the challenges, opportunities, and lessons for others navigating the same path. This conversation covers : When Will was brought into the merger with BLM, and the first stage of the process from a communications perspective The main challenges during the initial phase The key factors for success ahead of launching the communications campaign, and how they played out in practice How to keep clients at the heart of the campaign The impact of the merger on the team Advice for marketing and communications leaders navigating a merger
Moving beyond practice group silos and towards a one firm, one solution approach starting with what the client genuinely needs has never been more relevant for global firms. On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Tamasin Manwaring, Global Director of Product Business Development at Linklaters, about what it takes to build a client first product strategy at global scale. Drawing on a career that spans EY, Freshfields and more than a decade leading global disputes BD at Hogan Lovells, she shares how Linklaters is putting product BD into practice. Tamasin talks about her journey into product BD, what makes it distinctly different from traditional practice group BD, and how she's bringing partners along on a more collaborative, client first approach. Tamasin and Will dive into: Her career journey and when product BD became a central focus What makes product BD different, and why firms are shifting towards it now How to map a product against real client needs Bringing partners aboard a collaborative, client first approach Building a one firm, one solution culture across 30 offices The key barriers to cross-selling and holding a team accountable Her one piece of advice for BD leaders going product led
Adapting the big law playbook and driving the same high standards without the big law budget has never been more relevant for growing firms. On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Sarah High, Director of Marketing and Business Development at Yetter Coleman, about what it takes to successfully build a BD function from the ground up in a boutique litigation firm. Drawing on big law lessons and her ability to drive real strategic growth, she shares how to succeed on a boutique budget. Sarah talks about her journey from big law to boutique litigation, what it means to be a one person team building the framework for growth, and how she's leaning on external partners and AI to deliver big law results. Sarah and Will dive into: Her early priorities while establishing the BD function How to balance a strong legacy with modern growth strategies The importance of strong communication with external partners Where AI and technology is making the biggest impact Expert advice for others building a function from scratch
As the role of a legal marketer evolves beyond traditional definitions, it is important that marketing and BD professionals actively redefine and shape the role’s future direction. On this week's episode of the CMO Series Podcast Alistair Bone is joined by Jennifer Shankleton, Chief Growth and Development Officer at Brennan Manna & Diamond LLC, a title introduced in recognition that the marketing label no longer captured the full scope of her role. Jennifer sits on the executive committee and works across BD coaching, associate mentoring, and growth strategy. Jennifer brings a rare inside view of what it looks like building a marketing department from scratch, pushing past the limits of the marketing label, and running a function that wide inside a midsize firm with significant growth ambitions. Jennifer’s experience speaks to what marketing and BD professionals can achieve when the scope of their contribution is allowed to grow alongside their ambition. Jennifer and Ali also explore: Her professional career journey Key milestones in the evolution of her role Navigating the need for stakeholder buy-in Her coaching and mentorship program Concrete results demonstrating her positive impact Practical advice for others looking to shape their career
Building a BD function that actually drives revenue, not just activity, is something many law firms talk about but few get right. On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Helen Griffiths, Head of Business Development at Fladgate, who brings a genuinely distinctive perspective to the role, having spent her career across litigation funding, global law firms and a leading commercial barristers' chambers. Since joining Fladgate in 2024, Helen has overhauled the firm's approach to BD, introducing a more structured, targeted model built around clear ownership and measurable results. Helen and Will discuss: How a career spanning small agile businesses to large global firms shaped her approach to stepping into the Fladgate role What she found when she arrived, and the four priorities she set from day one How she brought both the BD team and fee earners on the journey, and where the resistance actually came from How the firm is measuring what's working and what it has stopped doing What's on the technology roadmap, including a CRM transformation in progress Her one piece of advice for BD leaders trying to build a plan that sticks
In most large law firms, a small handful of clients truly move the needle on revenue, yet BD efforts are still spread thinly across the board. In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke sits down with Rob Gijsen, Chief Marketing Officer at CMS, who has spent nearly three decades in senior BD and marketing roles at some of the world's largest firms. In the last year, Rob has driven the implementation of a new client and sector strategy to fundamentally change how CMS prioritises and manages its most important relationships. Rob shares the thinking behind it, what rolling out a strategy looks like at a firm of CMS’s scale, and what he’d advise other leaders thinking about doing the same. Rob and Will discuss: How Rob’s thinking about client strategy has evolved The need for a client categorisation framework Overcoming roadblocks and negative perceptions The quantitative results following the strategy Practical advice for others before implementation
In a market where everyone has smart people, strong credentials, and now access to the same AI tools, what is the actual differentiator and how do firms truly stand out? On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alex Haidar is joined by Roanne Neuwirth, a B2B enterprise marketing leader and advisor whose career spans over two decades across law firms, global management consultancies, and boutique professional services firms. From Hale and Dorr to Boston Consulting Group, Farland Group, and Bates Communications (acquired by BTS), Roanne has spent her career working with leadership teams to define market position, build client relationships, and drive sustainable growth. Roanne brings her unique outside-in perspective to challenge how legal and professional services marketers think about positioning, growth, and the role of AI. She makes the case that while technology levels the expertise playing field, genuine thought leadership and client feedback programmes are more important than ever in advancing marketing into the strategic force that truly differentiates. Roanne and Alex discuss: What actually separates the firms that grow from the ones that stand still Why marketing should be at the table driving growth, not sitting behind it The difference between a market position and a service list, and why so few firms get it right Where firms are going wrong on AI, and what they should be asking instead Whether the bar for building authentic client relationships has been raised Her number one piece of advice for the next generation of professional services CMOs
Building a growth function from scratch has never been more important for law firms, yet it remains one of the hardest things to get right. It means bringing in new people, shaping roles that have never existed before, and responding to a shifting market, all while respecting a firm's culture and heritage. Getting that all right is no mean feat. On today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Will Eke is joined by Clare Quinn-Waters, Chief Growth Officer at Edwin Coe, a role she stepped into in September 2024, and one that still doesn't exist at most law firms. With a 25-year career spanning strategic leadership across legal, professional services, and recruitment, Clare brings a distinctive perspective on what it actually takes to build a growth engine inside a firm with strong heritage and even stronger ambitions. Clare dives into: How her career across professional services and recruitment has shaped her approach to growth The state of the team when she joined and what was expected of a brand new Chief Growth Officer Her early priorities, what she changed immediately and what she deliberately left untouched How a CGO role differs from a traditional CMO or BD Director, and why that distinction mattered for Edwin Coe What the growth function looks like today and how her decade in recruitment has helped her hire the right people, with practical tips for other leaders building out their teams What's on the horizon for Edwin Coe's growth strategy over the next 6 to 12 months Her number one piece of advice for anyone building a growth function from the ground up
55% of law firms say cross-selling is one of their most important levers for revenue growth, yet only 19% strongly agree they're effective at it. That gap between ambition and execution is at the heart of our latest research and it's costing firms real revenue and opportunities. Today on the CMO Series Podcast, Dionne Cole is joined by James Barclay, CEO of Passle Inc, to discuss the findings from our 2026 Cross-Selling & Collaboration Report , produced in partnership with Hayhurst Consultancy. With responses from 100 managing partners and lawyers across the top 200 US and top 100 UK law firms, the report reveals a significant collaboration gap and a clear roadmap for firms looking to close it. James explores what the data really means, from the paradox of rate increases driving both growth and client churn, to the visibility challenges that prevent lawyers from cross-selling effectively, and what the firms getting it right are doing differently. Dionne and James discuss: The real business pressures that are pushing firms to rethink how they generate work across practices. Why firms talk about cross‑selling far more than they successfully deliver it. Why firms need to rethink relying on rate price increases as their primary growth strategy. How to fix the visibility gap and get lawyers connected. Why so many laterals leave within five years and what firms can do to better integrate them. What firm leaders should be doing differently to cultivate a culture of real collaboration. Click here to download the full 2026 Cross-Selling & Collaboration Report. And don't miss us at CMO Series Live in New York on June 4th. Get your tickets here.
The countdown is officially on for CMO Series Live 2026! Just 3 weeks to go until the action-packed day of networking, collaboration, and learning with legal marketing and BD professionals from across the industry. No more FOMO, having to choose what sessions you attend in the morning. It's going to just be one single stream, and that's allowed us to factor in more of that networking that we know everybody loves, and really hone down on what the key topics are that we should be addressing. In this CMO Series Podcast Special, Dionne Cole chats with Natasha Sandamas, Passle’s Events and Marketing Manager, to dive into what attendees can expect from this year's event. From key agenda highlights and upcoming industry discussions to the launch of the brand-new CMO Series Book Swap, tune in for a preview of what promises to be an exciting and informative day. Join us in New York on June 4th 2026, secure your tickets here to not miss out.
Law firms talk a lot about client relationships. But turning that into something consistent, scalable and truly integrated across a firm is a very different challenge. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Eugene McCormick is joined by Bela Grover, who most recently served as Chief Client Relationship Officer at Goodwin Procter LLP, to explore what it truly takes to formalise client development in a way that strengthens collaboration, improves client experience and helps firms grow more strategically. Following 25 years at Deloitte in revenue-generating and leadership roles, Bela provides a unique perspective to Big Law as she shares what law firms can learn from consulting firms about client strategy, how to build more purposeful client relationships, and why the systems behind client development matter just as much as the relationships themselves. Bela also dives into: Ways that client approaches differ between the Big Four and law firms How to introduce more structure without losing that entrepreneurial edge The importance of treating clients as clients of the firm, not individuals What strengthening client relationships looks like in practice Practical advice for building purposeful client relationships
Getting the right MarTech stack in place has never been more critical, yet many firms struggle with getting the high-stake investment projects off the ground. Today on the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins sits down with Iwona Kesting, Director of Business Development and Communications at Jones Day, to unpack what it really takes to secure firm-wide backing and how to make tech deliver real impact. With Iwona right in the middle of a major CRM and ERM transformation, she reinforces the importance of shaping the right strategy early with strong alignment across the firm. She also explores the risks of choosing the wrong tools, the pace of change, and the challenge of getting internal buy-in, as well as knowing where to start. Charles and Iwona discuss: How her approach to MarTech has evolved The biggest barriers that cause firms to go wrong The steps involved in a CRM and ERM transition How to get projects signed off using firm alignment How to measure the impact on client relationships and growth Practical advice for other firms looking to invest in new tech tools
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Observed September 14, 2026. Cached outside the daily freshness window; the positions keep the date they were taken on.
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