Heads & Dovetails

This week Jamie and Gill are joined by another creative this time jewellery maker Lauren Gunning. Jamie had seen Lauren's account on Instagram and had messaged Gill to say you need to follow this account and think she'd make a lovely guest as she has simialr beliefs and values to us. Lauren's ethos is to 'use what the earth already offers rather than taking more from it'. This is very much the basis of her buisness as she makes jewellery using things that already exist from sea and street glass to clay, she sources herself, cast in recycled silver. She explains how she came to be a jewellery maker - she wanted to be a witch when she was younger, her Dad wasn't impressed! - and how she has used SM to grow her business from 400 followers at the start of this year to over 48,000 when we recorded the episode! She talks about social media and how it has meant she has become incredibly busy so has put a hold on orders over the next few months. Jamie and Gill wanted to know how she came to use clay and the challanges that poses in making jewellery. As she explains this will be one way she will be able to scale her business as obviously she can only physically make so much jewellery in a day. Lauren says she hasn't done any face to face marklets or events but really loves to do them so she can talk to people and see who is buying the peices she has made and will hopefully keep forever. Not only has she been busy building her business, whilst still keeping to her values and ethos but she is also a busy Mum of 2 daughters! https://www.laurengunningjewellery.com/ IG @laurengunningjewellery

Episode 100!!! Jamie and Gill are shocked to have reached their 100th episode and reflect on how it came about. From Gill spotting a post of a pantomine crocodile on Instagram and then Jamie agreeing to do an episode with Gill on her 'GilHB and Friends' podcast to starting Heads & Dovetails. They chat about how did they get to 100 episodes! They decide it all boiled down to consistency. They'd tried various changes to the schedule: weekly, fortnightly, every 3 weeks but ultimately decided that fortnightly worked best and kept to that pattern. The consistency helped them build a habit of recording on a Friday morning at 9.30am (again something they worked out was best for them both) and relassed on teh follwoing Wednesday. The consistency was no doubt appreciated by their listeners! Consistency becomes the topic they chat about and how important it actually is to have in your life for so many reasons. Being consistent can actually help communication - consistently sitting down to have dinner around the table and chatting about your day. Consistency can also help create traditions in families - like eating at the table with no TV or phones. The conversation leads them into talking about comparison and how it can be such a negative thing in everyone's lives even more so these days with social media. Jamie talks about how the dynamic can change in a big group with people especially if they are making something, constantly checking to see if their work is as good as someone elses. Compariosn is something Jamie sees with the men in his workshop and has delivberately kept his classes small and his students make different things so makes it hard to compare. As Jamie quotes: Comparison is the thief of joy.

Gill had a branch snap on a tree, not completely but was overhanging the lane, so it needed to be removed before it fell onto someone. She tells Jamie the fun and games she and Clive had trying to remove it whilst cars waited. Jamie has also seen several trees with snapped branches. They chat about how many trees they have seen recently where . what appear to be healthy branches, have snapped off. Gill tells Jamie that with a bit of research she learned that trees, when under stress - and there has been a lot this year - will simply discard any branches with flaws. She had spoken to their tree surgeon about it and he said the trees have been really suffering and he expects a lot more problems as the autumn winds and rain start. Jamie and Gill discuss how trees do need managing evenin a woodland. Jamie talks about his cherry tree that he has cleared from ivy and tidied up and what he has done with all the wood he as removed. From making leaf mulch, Gill has a story about her attempts to make leaf mulch, to storing the wood as fire wood. Jamie also wants to share how he has now saved £25 a month on his electric bill by not only altering his water bed (as we discussed in a previous episode) but also how he has install an 'near the sink' instant hot water heater. Not only is he saving on his electirc but also on the amount of water they use as they don't have to run the tap quite so much to get hot water. Gill explains that investing in solar panels was one of the best things they did and how they turn off the heating in April, which includes the hot water boiler as the panels heat the water, and as yet (being October) still haven't had to turn it back on. They also export any excess electricity back to the grid which with the summer over the last few years has meant their bill has been credited with an amount rather than then having to pay anything. Edi

Gill explains that a few months ago they have moved away from using tea bags, because of the chemicals contained in the bags, back to using loose tea. Apart from the tea tasting so much better and them actaully needing to use less she was interested to see if there was a difference in price. On comparing the prices per 100g there was a marked differnce with loose tea being cheaper. Jamie had listened to a tea expert on a programme on the radio and explains the reasons she gave for loose tea being better quality. Gill coninues to say how she started checking prices on other items eg in somecases the large tins v small tins of things and again found the smaller tins to actually work out cheaper! They both agree they prefer to shop in person and choose their own food for variosu reasons plus it gives them chance to interact with others. Jamie wants to return to talking about tea and how he makes his cuppa in the workshop over the week. When Gill tells him how she prefers hers, Jamie is horrified! It leads them to question why do some adults put sugar in their children's tea so that they will like it rather than just waiting to see if they like it without sugar as they get older?

Jamie is tired of people being given a range of 'labels' even when not officially diagnosed as an example how somebody wanting to be organised or liking things to be tidy is suddenly seen as being OCD. Jamie has various examples and he and Gill chat about both the positives and negatives of people being labelled and the role of 'Dr Google' in self diagnosis. They questions when did the use of labels become so common place? In his woodworking Jamie has an eye for perfection and details and how he wants to make things that become 'heirlooms' rather than an item you just throw away. Woudl he be given a label of hypervigilant or OCD becuase of that eye for detail? Jamie and Gill are both ideas people and laugh about the problems that causes when you get an idea you want to follow up on from Gill wanting to make a willow bike basket (which expands into becoming a dual purpose one to Jamie wanting to make a triangular greenhouse! Gill has been thining about the impact of boundaries and how that along with calling people toxic has over the last few years have beome 'things'. She is concerned that rather than us becoming more connected its actually leading to people becoming more isolated.

Gill and Jamie are joined in this episode by an octogenarian author, John Uttley who has written his 4th and what he says, being realistic about his age and a recent health concern, is his final book. Originally from a working class family in Lancashire John went on to study at Oxford and had a career in what was orignally the CEGB (Central Electricity Generating Board) and when privatised he worked for the National Grid. On leaving that role a a portfolio career followed. It was at this point that John found he had time to write. Gill and Jamie chat to John about his books which are set in his home county of Lancashire, although John admits he's lived in London a long time. How he came to write them, where he gets his ideas from and does he have a specific strategy when writing. Ultimately the subject of accents is brought up when John asks Gill where he thinks he's originally from. Knowing the strong reactions between being identified as a Lancashire man or a Yorkshire man incorrectly - Gill didn't dare get it wrong! John's books are available to order from: bookshops via his website https://www.johnuttleyauthor.com/ or purchase online from Amazon

Jamie is being badly bitten by something up his garden unlike previous years and asks Gill if she gets bitten more now than a few years ago as he has a theory. Gill says she only has to walk outside and she gets bitten even through jeans, hence she never wears shorts or dresses! She reacts badly to bites with them itching constantly and they become swollen and red for days - she still has the scars from last years bites. Jamie thinks its because we eat 'cleaner and healthier' now that we have become tastier to the insects. Gill thinks it's because she doesn't drink as much alochol these days as she used to when she didn't get bitten! However she can't wait to tell Jamie that she is about to make something and see if it works. She's been hearing and reading about ribwort plantain balm being excellent for bites and stings. Having discovered they have loads of both sorts of plantain (flat broad lead and ribwort plantain) growing in their garden, of course Gill being Gill has decided to make some to see if it is effective. They chat about how the more natural ways are often the best and how we have forgotten about so many of them that herbalist and naturopaths use or actually has marketing and big pharma steered us away from making our own natural remedies? Gill had shared an IG post with Jamie about some research around trauma, which she had found interesting. It was looking at why after a trauma some people can move on and simply view it as a memory and others stay stuck in the trauma cycle despite therapy. In essence the research found that those that journal about it for 15 - 20 mins over 3 or 4 days can then move forward with their lives. Jamie says he has something he'd like to move on from and is going to give it a go to see what happens. They chat about what they used to use for writing from fountain pens to Quink ink, blotting paper and cartridge pens.

Following on from the last episode Jamie and Gill chat a bit more about EV's and the problems they've come across in last couple of weeks. Jamie had an incicent with a student and when Gill was in Lyme Regis with Clive she saw an 'exchange' between 2 car owners - one in the charging space and one waiting to charge. It did raise more questions about owning an EV car. Gill's husband had suggested they treat themselves to an ice cream. When they saw the rpices they realised how long ago they must have last bought an ice cream whilst out and about. It leads Jamie and Gill to chat not jsut about ice cream prices but about prices in general and how much they have increased. They both agree that in no way do they blame the business owner - but ultimately Gill only got her ice cream when they got home and she made them! Jamie has been busy dismantling his tree house that he built for a TV show and says how he wished he hadn't bothered building it as it was so much hassle! He has got of bits of video he took whilst taking it down that he could edit to put on YouTube. They discuss the effort and time it takes to make and post videos, how it has to be portrait for one platform and landscape for another. Gill says she will be posting a lot more in landscape now as she's working on a series for her YouTube channel which is best in lanscape. Jamie warns her about copyright music and some issues he has had in the past using 'free from copyright' music. They talk about how people think it's quick and easy to make money either posting videos or working on collaborations with businesses - it isn't! It take a lot of time, andi n the case of YouTube can be a long time before you earn a penny let alone get paid. They both agree it can bring in an income but you have no idea why one month you get lots of views on a video and the next not alot!

In this episode Jamie and Gill are joined by a guest Andy Leech, founder of Fleet Evolution (EV cars). Andy is a horse lover and somehow very early on in the podcast they start talking about horse s**t and the furore it can cause in a community. There are people who think owners and riders should clear up their horses mess the same as dog owners are meant to, Jamie of course is a dog owner. They chat about the diffiulties that would cause ot just out on the road with traffic but for the rider too having to climb back on - as Andy says at his age he'd need a step! With Andy owning a company both Jamie and Gill are interested to kow more about his apprenticeship scheme and how it works compared now to many years ago. Jamie didn't do an aprenticeship but worked and learnt under a skilled / master craftsman. They chat about the benefits to doing an apprenticeship rather than everyone going to university and all agree about the huge positives of 'learning on the job'. Not only does a young person learn the role but also what it feels like to go to work, be part of a team, earn while you learn and about how to communicate and take feedback. Andy set up Fleet Evolution back in 2010 as a salary sacrifice scheme for companies. Neither Jamie nor Gill are fond of EV cars for a variety of reasons but Andy does a good job in convincing them of the positives, how it really is about adapting, planning in advance and a shift in mindset! Part of the planning is looking for places you are going to stop and charge which leads them to talk about the best Motorway services. Gill and Andy agree there really aer only 2 in England for them - the Gloucester Services on the M5 and Tebay on the M6 n Cumbria. However Andy does admit that if you can't charge it at home, and there are plenty of people who can't, then it is more of an issue. He does say to Jamie that if you own your own car outright (both Jamie and Gill do) had it for several years and it's going OK with general servicing then that is the best form of sustainability.

Of course with the recent heat wave Jamier and Gill have to talk about the weather! Jamie says that somehow he has been very productive doing little jobs on his list including lots of sewing. With the hot weather Gill's been busy washing everything like the sofa cushion covers, the mattress topper and getting them all dry in the sun. Letting nature do its work rather than dry cleaning! Jamie confesses to turning on his air con in his workshop for the first time in over 13 years. His workshop is like a little tin box and he wasn't sure it would work but with students coming in he needed to have it on. It worked! He compares the cost of running it to impact on the amount of work he can actually get done when it's cool. Gill mentions their solar panels would be perfect for running AC as basically wouldn't cost us anything but luckily living in a bungalow with loads of insulation she and Clive stay cool! She chats about how people tend to do the opposite of what they should to keep their homes and cars cool. It leads on to them talking about EV cars and sitting in traffic jams, more about that next episode of they ever manage to get their guest on! Jamie tells Gill about the drinks he has been making using broccoli water with nettles and other ingredients to keep hydrated. Rather than just drinking water it means he also gets lots of minerals and electrolytes which are so important in the hot weather. Lastly they talk about bird poo! Jamie has been scraping it off their cars whereas Clive and Gill were scraping it off themselves whilst on their normal Saturday morning walk in Budleigh Salterton. How one seagull could have such an impact and make such a mess literally from top to toe on both of them was beyond Gill! She smugly tells Jamie how she got everything clean without any chemicals being used.

Eleven days after an insect / spider bite Jamie has been to A & E as his ankle kept swelling. He was recommended to take some antihistamine tablets and went off to buy some. He was given a choice between a branded one tablet or a supermarkets own brand at a much cheaper price. Jamie of course took the cheaper one and no real differnce according to the person serving him. It leads to a chat about the difference in cost between branded and non branded items. Gill says she has 2 friends who know a lot about plants and there medicinal properties. She wishes she could plug her brain into theirs to download the information as she knows she must have a lot in her garden that she could use. She tells Jamie about how, when she worked as sales admin in a cardboard box factory and had to deliver some samples to a customer, she was shown around the factory and saw various brands being made next to each other. The only thing that needed to change between them was one ingredient! Jamie has also been carving a little mouse, copying it from a carver, Robert Thompson, well known for his mice. Jamie explains how apprentices are often told to copy something from a Master in that field as it puts you into the same frame of mind and makes you think about how to acheive the same result. Gill jokes about how in a 100 years someone will appear on the Antiques Roadshow with Jamie' mouse thinnking they have a Robert Thompson mouse worth a fortune and be disappointed. Jamie explains that he will burn his own mark into it so that there is no mistake and when an apprentice copies a Master's piece of work it is not allowed to leave the workshop but is destroyed. This leads them to talk about 'biting off more than you can chew' when learning a skill. Gill talks about a new willow weave she has been learning and it's defintiely not perfect but has helped her learn what she needs to do / change much earlier on in the process next time to make it better. They both agree that it is good to remind students / newly qualified people watching or wondering how they came to certain decisions that they have years of experience of doing their jobs.

With AI and so little face to face communication these days Gill tells Jamie how a simple act of taking a photo of a flower high up on a wall became, what she's now calling, a 'touch point of human contact' and how she is looking to have more of them. Another one occurred when she wnet to pick up a pizza from the van that comes to their village and how it became moch more than collecting a pizza. Having a dog Jamie says he gets plenty of these moments chatting to other dog owners and with his workshop in the Ruskin centre next to the cafe people tend to drop in to his workshop to have a look. They chat more about human contact and how important it is to us as humans. Jamie says he is now doing less videos for YouTube and as a result getting more done in the workshop and in future will only do videos of the things he enjoys making. As a result of his shift in thnking about his work and making more of the things he wants to make he's decided to change his workshop around a little remvogn some things adding chairs. These changes in what he wants to do has also had a positve effect on the rate he charges for any work he does. Jamie has also been busy in his garden removing ivy that was choking an old cherry tree and how having removed it the tree has already got new little shoots coming from the branches. Gill and Jamie have something new for their next podcast a guest! They can't wait to see how that goes.

Jamie had seen some posts on Gill's Instagram accoutn about their cat Silvio and asked what had happened. Gill tells Jamie the sorry story. Silvio has been in a fight with another cat and had a badly injured, ripped open cheek which needed sititches. He is an outdoor cat and after 4 visits to the vet was still not allowed out! She said that right now she wasn't sure who's was more stressed him or her and Clive! Jamie has a bit of a story of his own about his leaking water bed having woken up in the early hours to feel a damp patch on the side. Gill was surprised that he had a water bed and said not for her she'd rather sleep on the floor! Jamie said they had to drain it straight away and for a few nights sleep on a blow up mattress whilst they decided which bed to have next. His wife doesn't really like the water bed so he thoguht he'd give her the option to choose a new bed. He started to do some research into various beds but after a few nights not sleeping on the warmth of the water bed his joints started to complain. Gill and Jamie chat about beds and consequently that leads onto discussing bedding as well and how they can impact your sleep to such a large degree and yet it is often one of the items we rarely think about spending a lot of money on. They discuss the toxic effects of beds and the more natural ones now being made.

Jamie and Gill start talking about technology and the reason Gill has never worn blue tooth headsets or i pods as she has had several friends who have had brain tumours - maybe a coincidence?? They discuss if the problem of now having to connect headsts etc by blue tooth or the 'old fashioned' wire ones via an adaptor could that be part of the reason so many people now have conversations and listen to things on loud speaker annoying everyone around them! Jamie tells Gill he's made a change and wants to know how much mindset plays a role in the impact he's experiencing. He's changed his milk from semi-skimmed to organic whole milk and feels it is having an impact on what he now eats as well. He's using less sugar, wants to snack less and wonders if that's as a result of the change or that he believes it is making a difference. They chat about beliefs and the placebo as well as the nocebo, effect and somemore about today's food in supermarkets. Gill talks about the chemicals in the things we now use everyday and the impact it has on our health and how difficult it is to know what's true even in the results of 'research'.

Jamie missed the time they were due to record this episode. He explained he had a lot going on in his head, not in a stressful way but in a good way, and had taken 5 minutes to sit in the garden and forgot they were due to record. Gill and Jamie chat about how they approach tasks or chores in various ways that they don't want to do and 'future pace' the results like Jamie and tidying his woodstore to make things easier in the winter. When it comes to work it's sometimes means saying 'no' to jobs even if you want to do them or putting in a your own 'end date' and taking control of your life rather than feeling pressurised. They chat about how funny it is that the things they love to make are often the most popular items to sell as if they have a different energy in them. Gill tells Jamie about the TV show 'Take it to market' as a great example of that. Jamie and Gill talk about how teaching is the best way to learn a subject and how important it is to learn how to do the job properly before learning the 'cheats' or 'shortcuts' as there will be times when a cheat won't work. Gill brings up the subject of being adaptable and able to flex quite easily, like Jamie not turning up on line to record this episode and how you can respond to similar situations to avoid getting frustrated or angry.

How far would you travel to see a professional you trusted? Jamie has broken a tooth and doesn't trust the dentists local to him but has located his old dentist and is happy to travel to herknowing how skillful she is. Jamie and Gill chat about skills and how good it is when someone you are teaching reaches a certain skill level or as a learner you feel you reach a certain level and ready to move on. Jamie is creating a 'pathway' for his students so that when they reach a certain level they can decide which direction they want to go in next. Gill talks about running her willow course and how when learning something new you really get to appreciate the skill involved and often that changes your view of what the price should be, which is usually higher! When you are buying something it isn't just that product or teaching hour you're paying for but all the hours of practice that were involved for the teacher / trainer to become so skilled. Jamie has been asked to repair a writing box and made the customer fully aware of how he charges and potential time frame. The customer was fully onboard with the cost and adament he wanted Jamie to do it no mattter how long it took. Gill and Jamie chat about how, when a sole trader and in certain professions, there is a tendency to keep prices stable and not to increase fees in line with rising costs espeically for longstanding clients particularly if you know they are struggling to make ends meet already - but everyone has increased bills to pay. Jamie has decided to tell his students that there will be a yearly increase but if they can't afford it to talk to him.

Jamie and Gill talk chat about how they get ourselves into things without meaning to?! Gill explains that she's found herself running a willow obelisk workshop for her village 'allotmenteers' having been asked by her neighbour but didn't think she'd actually said yes so not quite sure how it happened. Gill describes what is involved in preparing for the workshop especially when you don't have the right equipment to start with! Jamie shares a similar type story involving a stair gate and his accountant. When peole ask for things they rarely take into account how much tiem is involved prior to actually starting the work if the client even agrees. They chat about how people expect skilled people / speakers etc to do something for nothing, travel to the venue maybe accomodation required and offer very little in exchange without thinking they have bills to pay as well! With everything going up in price since the start of the Iran war Jamie has been looking for new tyres for his car, as he works through the 'advisories' from his car's recent MOT. He describes how shopping around can save a lot of money. Gill comments how she has been mentally working out the cost of veg as she shops and thereforer how much growing her own food actually saves her even though she buys some compost each year. On the same lines of saving money Jamie also mentions that he has noticed the views on his free fuel biquette videos have increased in recent weeks with people looking to save money especially on things like heating. The impact of more viewings means that the money Jamie earns from YouTube will increase slightly but it all helps.

Jamie and Gill have both been busy in the garden. Gill has been clearing their wild flowers area in the garden which has became overgrown with deep rooted plants like: nettles, cleavers and dock leaves whilst the clay soil is wet enough to get them out. Jamie has been busy removing ivy covering a tree at the end of his garden. The mention of ivy leads Gill to talk about making laundry liquid from ivy leaves and Jamie is keen to know how to do it and says to Gill 'Don't tell me that it must be that Nancy Birtwhistle again!' Gill, beign passionate about the environment and keen to do her bit, goes on to tell Jamie how to clean patio stones without using chemicals again "Nancy Birtwhistle style'. Gill suddenly has an idea that due to the delivery of 3 copies of Nancy's latest book which were faulty she suggests they run a competition for someone to win a copy (repaired by her). Jamie comes up with a plan that means if you'd like to enter you'll have to listen to this episode. They finish by chatting about comparing their experiences of selling items on both Ebay and Facebook market place. Gill has been busy clearing her sister's flat and attempting to sell furniture items. She admits that she is by no means an 'Ebayer or Marketplace expert', and experienced all sorts of issues with buyers. Jamie has been busy selling an item and explains how he has gone about it

Gill starts the episode by sharing a piece that her friend Justin Buckthorp posted on how our fitness regimes change as we age and for good reason. What we could do at 25 and get away with we can no longer do at 45 and for good reason. Jamie and Gill chat about how health, for them, has become the number one driver as they age. They very much think about and are far more aware of what they do, how they do it and why, from exercise to eating. Gill no longer goes to a gym but gets her exercise out in her large garden or moving around on the floor when she is willow weaving. Jamie says he does similar in that he no longer syas he'll spend hours in the garden but just go do a bit when he can and not push it beyond what he knows will impact him in a negative way physically later on. The conversation naturally leads onto what they both eat adn actually when they now eat. Gill tells of her experiences whenever she is questions around her eating and drinking habits by asked by a doctor or nurse and the looks of disbelief she gets. Jamie has been medicine free for 6 years now and how he's doing things differently but wants to do more. Finally shock of shocks - Jamie shares he ate a Starbar recently, they been his favourite chocolate bar for years and years, but discovered he no longer likes them and apparently it's all Gill fault!

Jamie and Gill thought they'd see if they could have 2 random topics to talk about and if they could somehow get from one topic to the other linking them together. They both agreed that being typically British they had to talk about the weather and Jamie had said he wanted to talk about smoking - well giving up. The challenge was set! They started, as agreed, with the amount of rain everyone has been experiencing and how that was impacting their ability to get out in the garden. This lead very nicely into talking about potholes and cars. Cars allowed Gill to bring up the subject of parking lights, the old ones you used to clip on the driver's window and plug into the cigarette lighter. Jamie admitted he'd never heard of them until he saw one for sale and wondered what this egg-shaped thing was with a lead hanging out of it. The mention of the cigarette lighter in the car (what's one of those younger listeners will ask?) of course meant they could talk about cigarette machines. Which gave Jamie the opportuntiy to talk about his smoking habit and how he gave up smoking at 19 having started at 12 years old. They somehow acheived the challenge but being Jamie and Gill there was a lot of digressing along the way into freezers, bodies and even being a 'little bit Polish'!