Love is the Message: Dance, Music and Counterculture
Published by Love is the Message podcast
Music
Music History
Love is the Message: Music, Dance & Counterculture is a new show from Tim Lawrence and Jeremy Gilbert, both of them authors, academics, DJs and dance party organisers. Tune in, Turn on and Get Down to in-depth discussion of the sonic, social and political legacies of radical movements from the 1960s to today. Starting with David Mancuso's NYC Loft parties, we’ll explore the countercultural sounds, scenes and ideas of the late 20th and early 21st centuries. ”There’s one big party going on all the time. Sometimes we get to tune into it.” The rest of the time there’s Love Is The Message.
It's just Jem this week, mopping up the last suds of our post punk mini-series with a series of British bands who ripped it up and started again. We spend time with The Slits fantastic dub punk debut Cut, shouting out the production of the great Dennis Bovell on the way, then drive up the M1 to explore the rich pickings of that great musical city, Sheffield. With reference to an early Human League single, Jem unearths the imminent possibilities of the crumbling Fordist world. We hear two tracks from Public Image Ltd, before digging into one of our host’s favourites - the Raincoats - to explore feminist aesthetics, Maoist China and an unlikely meeting with Kurt Cobain. We round out the piece with two classics from the mighty Clash. Not a bad haul for one year. We’ll be away for a few weeks on various summer excursions, but will be back soon after with more music, dance floors, sound systems and counterculture. Tune in, turn on, get down! Patreon.com/Love MessagePod https://www.loveisthemessagepod.co.uk/ Produced by Matt Huxley Tracklist: The Slits - Typical Girls The Slits - Adventures Close to Home Human League - Empire State Human Public Image Ltd - Death Disco Public Image Ltd - Socialist The Raincoats - Fairytale in the Supermarket The Raincoats - Lola The Clash - London Calling The Clash - Lost in the Supermarket Books: Audrey Golden - Shouting Out Loud: Lives of the Raincoats Frith & Horn - Art into Pop Reynolds & Press - The Sex Revolts: Gender, Rebellion and Rock’n’Roll
This is an excerpt from a patrons-only episode. To hear the full show, and dozens more like it, visit Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod to join. We made it: what started as a ten-minute conversation and became a six episode mini-series finally reaches it conclusion, with the 1978 release of Arthur Russell’s Kiss Me Again. Jeremy and Tim conclude the genealogy of this epic track, detailing it’s recording, dry runs in the club, how the record was sold to the punky Sire Records, and how the Arthur came to put together the players. Friend of the show Nicky Siano gets an extensive mention as the record's co-producer, and his club the Gallery plays host to its first outings. Tim and Jeremy compare notes on how Nicky’s aesthetic differed from David Mancuso’s, share the story of how Arthur came to begin dancing at the Gallery, and explore his queerness both in contact with the dance floor and with his friend and mentor Allen Ginsberg. Elsewhere in the episode the guys ruminate on soft rock, spend a bit longer talking minimalism, and detail Arthur’s ill-fated trip to Italy to join Le Orme… Tracklist: Nirosta Steel - Lost in Music Arthur Russell - Don’t Forget About Me Allen Ginsberg - CIA Dope Calypso Le Orme - Canzone D’Amore Arthur Russell - Oh Fernanda Why Barbara Pennington - Twenty Four Hours a Day Desmond Child and Rouge - The Night was Not
We’ve finally made it - the pivotal Post Punk year of 1979. Well, sort of. It wouldn’t be LITM without a little extra detail, so Jeremy and Tim cue up our arrival with a couple of tracks from ’78 for good measure. They talk Tom Robinson Band, Undertones and the Only Ones, exploring ‘dole queue rock’, everydayness and the limits of politically self-conscious music of the period. Later in the show they tuck into a couple of indie disco staples to examine emergent New Wave, de-masculination, Manchester and the Iron Lady. Finally, for the first time on the show, the guys spend time on perhaps the most iconic post punkers of all: Joy Division. This is our last main feed episode for a little while - we'll be back in mid-August. Until then, why not become a Patron and explore our LITM Extra archive, featuring dozens of bonus shows? Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod www.loveisthemessagepod.co.uk Produced by Matt Huxley. Tracklist: Tom Robinson Band - Winter of ’79 The Undertones - Teenage Kicks The Only Ones - Another Girl, Another Planet Blondie - Heart of Glass Machine - There But for the Grace of God Go I The Cure - Boys Don’t Cry Joy Division - Disorder
This is an excerpt from a patrons-only episode. To hear the full thing, plus dozens more like it, visit Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod. We continue our mini-series on Arthur Russell by turning to his mid-70s pop and folk work. Starting in the famous Poet’s Building in 1975, Tim and Jeremy explore life in the East Village, in particular the area’s poetry scene. They discuss the aesthetics of setting spoken word to music, stop by Ginsberg, and drop in some Tibetan Buddhist classes. Elsewhere in the episode we hear about a number of recording sessions at the Columbia Records studio, get haunted by the spectre of Dylan, and speculate on whether Arthur could have been the fourth Talking Head. Tim shares some demos from Arthur’s short-lived band the Flying Hearts, a version of Psycho Killer with punchy cello that didn’t make the final cut, and some Laraaji-ish keyboard noodlings. www.loveisthemessagepod.co.uk Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod Produced by Matt Huxley. Books: Philippe Bourgeois - In Search of Respect: Selling Crack in El Barrio Tracklist: Arthur Russell - Barefoot in New York William Carlos Williams - The Red Wheelbarrow Bright and Early - Apple to the Orange Arthur Russell - Nobody Wants a Lonely Heart Arthur Russell - I Couldn’t Say it to Your Face Arthur Russell - Reach One (with Two Fender Rhodes) Talking Heads - The Girls Want to be with the Girls Talking Heads - Psycho Killer (acoustic version) The Flying Hearts - Ballad of the Lights The Flying Hearts - What’s It Like
In this episode we return to the Mudd Club, NYC’s ‘intense laboratory’ of cinema, performance, dance and music. We hear about how this new kind of club fused these various media in novel ways, both as a day-to-day scene hang out spot and a site of never-ending unusual parties (‘Rock’n’Roll Funeral Ball Extravaganza’ anyone?). Tim and Jeremy detail the movement of artists into the East Village in the late 70s, the Fluxus inspiration for the Club’s goings on, and throw a little light on another less well-remembered venue, Club 57. Elsewhere in the episode the guys talk about The Cure, Lou Reed, retromania and cable TV, whilst also spending a moment on the legacy of Anita Sarko, a much-loved DJ on the scene. Produced by Matt Huxley. Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod. Loveisthemessagepod.co.uk. Tracklist: Shrapnel - Combat Love Policeband - Mono The Cure - Killing an Arab Lou Reed - Vicious Bobby Freeman - Betty Lou Got a New Pair of Shoes
This is an excerpt from a patrons-only episode. To hear the full thing, plus dozens more like it, visit Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod. We’re back on the tail of Arthur Russell this week, paying close attention to his piece Instrumentals. A large ensemble composition comprised of multiple musical cells and first premiered at The Kitchen while he was music director, this work expresses Arthur’s proximity to NYC’s post minimalist scene. Jeremy and Tim discuss the works of several of the more prominent composers of that world, including Steve Reich, La Monte Young and Philip Glass, discussing the merits and failures of minimalism and how Arthur’s music aligned and diverged. Elsewhere they spend time on Arthur’s close friend and collaborator Peter Gordon, spend a moment unpacking Postmodernism, attempt to give a very potted account of just and equal temperaments, and give the stage to Memphis rockers Big Star. www.loveisthemessagepod.co.uk Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod Produced by Matt Huxley. Tracklist: Arthur Russell - Hey! How Does Everybody Know Captain Beefheart - Dachau Blues Arthur Russell - Instrumentals (Live at the Kitchen) La Monte Young - The Well-Tuned Piano Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians Henry Flynt & Nova'Billy — Amphetamine Rhapsody
Continuing our mini-series on post-punk, Jeremy and Tim turn their attention to the pre-history of a crucial NYC venue: The Mudd Club. Given Tim literally wrote the book on this stuff, he’s well-placed to tell the story of how three Downtowners got the idea, got the premises, agreed on the name (not without its difficulties) and threw open the doors. We revisit the blending of punk and dance cultures that was emerging in the city at the time, spend a moment in another club - Hurrah - and contemplate the pitfalls of punk. Elsewhere in the episode Jeremy recounts his indie disco escapades, we hear a very early iteration of Psycho Killer, and pour one out for the mighty B52s. Plus: John Wilkes Booth, Molotov cocktails, and Elvis. Produced by Matt Huxley. Become a patron at patreon.com/LoveMessagePod https://www.loveisthemessagepod.co.uk/ Tracklist: The Rolling Stones - Miss You The Ramones - I Wanna Be Sedated Talking Heads - Psycho Killer (Live at CBGB’s) Elvis - Moody Blue The Heartbreakers - Chinese Rocks B52s - 52 Women
We've dug into our vault of past episodes and unlocked this previously patrons-only interview from last year. To hear dozens more episodes like this from just £3 a month, visit Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod. In episode we welcome writer and anti-fascist activist Joe Mulhall to the show to discuss his fantastic book Rebel Sounds: Music as Resistance, a survey across time and place of groups and cultures using musics as part of their resistance to forms of racism and imperialism. We hear about Irish rebel songs, Kneecap and an impromptu Irish history quiz in the toilets of a Wolftones gig; the role of Jazz, Blues and Soul in the Civil Rights Struggle; revisit Tropicalia with fresh eyes and ears; and fly to Nigeria for the Felabration in Lagos. Alongside these topics we consider how our personal tastes can divert from a music’s political power, US cultural hegemony, music in the USSR, 'bone records’, Two Tone, and bring things up to date with a trip to the trenches of Ukraine.
This is an excerpt from a patrons-only episode. To hear the full thing, plus dozens more, become a patron from £3 a month at Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod. In this patrons episode we rejoin Arthur Russell in NYC as he takes up musical directorship of the supremely influential downtown arts centre The Kitchen. Jeremy and Tim discuss the Minimalist and Post-Minimalist stylings of the retinue of composer-performers in the area, including Christian Wolff and Rhys Chatham. We hear how Arthur - never a rock lover - became enamoured with the vernacular communication of the Modern Lovers, inviting them for a semi-legendary performance at his venue, and more broadly how their aesthetics of everydayness came to influence a slew of subsequent artists including Arthur himself. Elsewhere in the episode the guys discuss the curious case of Frank Zappa, gong baths, and share some personal reflections on their experiences with Arthur's music. Tracklist: Christian Wolff - For 1,2 or 3 People Rhys Chatham - Two Gongs Arthur Russell - Eli The Modern Lovers - Old World Arthur Russell - I Forget and I Can’t Tell The Modern Lovers - Roadrunner (Live at the Kitchen) Frank Zappa - The Chrome Plated Megaphone of Destiny Peter Gordon - Machomusic
Grab your zines, dust off your stencils and customise your jackets because Jeremy and Tim are continuing our mini-series on post-punk with a healthy dollop of DIY culture. They discuss the infamous Sniffin’ Glue magazine, visit Dial House to ponder the ultimate UK DIY heroes Crass, and spin some of the most out-there No Wave cuts NYC had to offer. Elsewhere in the episode they dedicate time to outré post punk pioneers Devo, shout out the pipes on Lydia Lunch, dwell on punk’s dub and hip hop influences as expressed through a classic Clash track, and unpick the aesthetics of uptightness. Plus Glen Branca, Epping Forest and… Crosby Stills Nash & Young. Produced by Matt Huxley. Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod www.loveisthemessagepod.co.uk Tracklist: Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young - Ohio Devo - Satisfaction Theoretical Girls - You Got Me Alternative TV - Action Time Vision The Clash - White Man in Hammersmith Palais Teenage Jesus and the Jerks - Orphans Crass - Sucks
This is an excerpt of a patrons-only episode. To hear the full thing, and dozens more like it, visit Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod to sign up from just £3 a month. In this patrons episode we continue to unspool our mini-series on the great Arthur Russell. We rejoin the composer on the West Coast in the early 1970s, leaving him a few years later at the Manhattan School of Music as he prepares to move downtown. Along the way Tim and Jeremy discuss Arthur’s friendship with Allen Ginsberg, his experiences of Buddhism, and an early recording session with the poet and one Bob Dylan. Elsewhere we hear about William Blake, ‘beginner’s mind’, Ginsberg’s devotional music, hippie cowboys and Indian influences, and take a trip to Wales. In addition to his playing on the Ginsberg recordings, we also hear some of the first music composed by our subject. Tracklist: Allen Ginsberg - Wales Visitation Allen Ginsberg - Pacific High Studio Mantras - Om Ah Hum Vajra Guru Padma Siddhi Hum Allen Ginsberg - A Dream Arthur Russell - Goodbye Old Paint
Jeremy and Tim continue our mini-series on post-punk with a bit of 1978 scene-setting. Describing the inflationary crises, militant shop stewards and series of strikes in the UK and US, Jeremy paints a picture of the historic moment out of which a series of self-consciously anti-bourgeois bands were emerging. We hear about Jonny Rotten’s metamorphosis into John Lydon, take a moment to reflect on some of Leeds’ favourite sons the Gang of Four, and cross over to the Rust Belt to listen to an early track by Ohio’s own Pere Ubu. Sticking in the States, Tim spends time talking about Talking Heads’ second album More Songs About Buildings and Food, unleashes the Disco Clone, and enjoys the B52s Rock Lobster. Plus: Eno, Feminism, and the first ever thrift shop in NYC. Edited by Matt Huxley. Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod https://www.loveisthemessagepod.co.uk/ Tracklist: Pere Ubu - The Modern Dance Public Image Ltd - Public Image Gang of Four - Damaged Goods Al Green - Take Me to the River Cristina - Disco Clone B52s - Rock Lobster Books: Bernard Gendron - Between Montmartre and the Mudd Club
UNLOCKED: we've decided to share this interview with writer Toby Manning that we originally distributed to patrons in May 2025. To hear dozen more bonus episodes on a vast array of topics, visit Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod to become a patron. In this episode we welcome writer Toby Manning to the show to discuss his recent book Mixing Pop and Politics: A Marxist History of Popular Music. Toby's book offers a political reading of popular music, taking as its methodological starting point the songs found in the charts from the 1950s to the present day, to explore how the music people listen to reflects and resists the politics of their time in fascinating ways. In this show Jeremy, Tim and Toby discuss the charts themselves, how we think of 'popular music', and discuss lyrics as a tool for analysis. This being LITM, we of course spend some time on the hits of the 1970s, but we hear also about '80s synth pop and yacht rock, Annie Lennox, MJ, and contemporary artists like FKA Twigs and Little Sims. Also found inside: the GLC, the High Sixties and Kneecap. Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod www.loveisthemessagepod.co.uk
This is an excerpt from a patrons-only episode. To hear the full thing and dozens more like it, visit Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod to sign up. In this episode we begin a patrons mini-series on one of the most unique and beloved characters of the LITM story, Arthur Russell. Given Tim literally wrote the book on the singer, composer and multi-instrumentalist, you’re in good hands. We begin with the story of Arthur’s early life in Iowa and his move to San Francisco, including experiences with Buddhism and drugs, alongside musical instruction from the great Ali Akbar Khan. Tim and Jeremy paint a picture of Arthur’s explorations in countercultural living, refute the idea that he simply wasn’t good at finishing things, and introduce the musician as an avatar for the particular melting pot of NYC music and art culture. Join us next time to see us go bang… Produced by Matt Huxley. www.loveisthemessagepod.co.uk Tracklist: Arthur Russell - This Time Dad You’re Wrong Arthur Russell - That’s Us / Wild Combination Ali Akbar Khan - Shri Rag Terry Riley - In C
On this week’s episode we return to 70s for the first of a mini-series on post-punk. A historical period, an unhelpful genre descriptor, a structure of feeling? Whatever it is, the guitar bands of the UK and NYC in 1978 were creating some serious music. Jeremy and Tim discuss where the term came from, what exactly the ‘punk’ it was following was, and some the music’s early proponents. With reference to The Slits, Wire, Talking Heads and more, we hear about the Hacienda, John Peel, Modernism and Mark E Smith. The guys unpack how funk and reggae were influencing bands like The Contortions in their experimentation with rhythm, visit the CBGB club in New York, and dispute received ideas about the division between punk and disco. Finally, we introduce a major character in out story over the coming months: Arthur Russell. Tracklist: The Slits - New Town (John Peel Session) Wire - I Am the Fly The Fall - Stepping Out Talking Heads - Tentative Decisions The Contortions - I Can’t Stand Myself Books: Simon Reynolds - Rip It Up and Start Again John Savage - ‘The New Musick’ in Time Travel
To hear the extended, 12", almost-2-hour version of this conversation, including discussion on Maximo Park, Kenickie and Bob Davenport, visit Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod and become a patron from just £3 a month. In this episode of LITM Jeremy is joined by writer and editor of Tribune magazine Alex Niven to talk about the musical history of England’s North East. Our interest in this subject was piqued by Sam Fender’s victory in last year’s Mercury Music Prize. Fender is himself an artist indebted to our recent subject, Bruce Springsteen. Alex talks us through the particulars of the region, one of Britain’s main post-industrial heartlands, exploring through music various expressions of white working class identity and a particular form of masculinity that artists have variously embodied or pushed against. Jeremy and Alex discuss blues rock, ‘sophsti-pop’ and Sting, the folk club legacy of the North East, Richard Dawson, the smallpipes and the Sultans of Swing. Alex Niven is the author of Folk Opposition, Definitely Maybe for 33 1/3, New Model Island: How to Build a Radical Culture Beyond the Idea of England and The North Will Rise Again: In Search of the Future in Northern Heartlands. Tracklist: Sam Fender - Seventeen Going Under The Animals - House of the Rising Sun The Animals - We Gotta Get Outta This Place Eric Burdon and War - Spill the Wine Lindisfarne - Clear White Light Alan Hull - I Hate to See You Cry Lindisfarne - Fog on the Tyne Dire Straits - Sultans of Swing Pet Shop Boys - Being Boring Sting - All This Time Richard Dawson - The Vile Stuff Sam Fender - People Watching Kathryn Tickell - Bone Music
This is an excerpt from a patrons-only episode. To hear the full thing, and dozens more like it, visit Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod to sign up. In our final episode of 2025, Jeremy and Tim spend some time exploring the life and times of Bruce Springsteen. Tracing his life from his early career up to 1984, they unpack specificities of the Boss’s politics, his particular aesthetic, and the often confused reception of his repertoire. We hear about the sense of place in his music, the influence of Dylan on his writing, the iconography of the small town and the big car, and his various attempts to express a white vernacular working class experience. Jeremy describes how Springsteen’s songs of New Jersey post-industrialisation were heard in the cities of North West England, Tim interrogates his endorsement of Obama, and both try to understand his unique mass appeal in the USA, with callbacks to Zohran and our recent Dylanology episode. This is our last show of the year - thank you everyone for coming with us on this long strange trip. We return in early 2026 for more music, dance floors, sound systems and counter culture. www.LoveistheMessagePod.co.uk You can read Tom Williams’ article on Springsteen, ‘The Only Boss We Listen To’, on Tribune at: https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/11/the-only-boss-we-listen-to Tracklist: Bruce Springsteen - Blinded by the Light Bruce Springsteen - 4th Of July, Asbury Park (Sandy) Bruce Springsteen - Thunder Road Patti Smith - Because the Night Bruce Springsteen - Badlands Bruce Springsteen - The River Bruce Springsteen - Atlantic City
It’s Mamdani time! On this episode of the show we’re bringing things right up to the here and now to celebrate New York City Mayor-Elect Zohran Mamdani. Tim and Jeremy recount the emergence of Zohran as a political figure, his background and parents, his democratic socialist politics and what his election means for the Left and anti-imperialism more broadly. We also hear a potted history of the DSA, consider the particularities of Left Populism as a contemporary political tendency, spend time with Bernie and de Blassio, and appraise a couple of the incoming mayor’s early rap tracks. Edited by Matt Huxley. Become a Patron at Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod www.loveisthemessagepod.co.uk/ Tracklist: Sunidhi Chauhan - Dhoom Machale Young Cardamom, HAB - #1 Spice Mr. Cardamom - Nani Lil Wayne - Right Above It Das Racist - Combination Pizza Hut And Taco Bell The Temptations - Smiling Faces Sometimes Books: David Harvey - A Brief History of Neoliberalism Barbara Ehrenreich - Dancing in the Streets: A History of Collective Joy
In this episode we conclude our look at the Democratic Republic of Congo with an exploration of the music and politics of the country from 1960 to the present day. Beginning with the overthrow of Patrice Lumumba, Jeremy and Tim discuss the colonial and imperialist dynamics that have buffeted the country for the last half century, the cycles of violence this engenders and the role of nations like the US, China and Rwanda have played in destabilising the country. They also unpack the ‘resource curse’ of the DRC’s mineral stocks, the activities of companies like Apple and Tesla, and finish with a reflection from the great Franz Fanon. On the music side of things, we hear a potted history of the conga drum, some drum and bass, electric thumb pianos, handmade amplifiers and an African cousin to footwork. Edited by Matt Huxley. Become a Patron at patreon.com/LoveMessagePod . www.LoveistheMessagePod.com Tracklist: Zaiko Langa Langa - Femme Ne Pleure Pas Papa Wemba - La Vie Comme Elle Va Bola Grooverider - Rivers of Congo Konono No.1 - Lufuala Ndonga Khalab - Chitita Kokoko! - Malembe Jupiter & Okwess - Na Kozonga Fulu Kolektiv - Lualaba Fulu Kolektiv - Nfuka
This is an excerpt from a patrons episode. To hear the full thing, and dozens more like it, visit Patreon.com/LoveMessagePod and become a patron from £3 a month. In this patrons-only episode Jeremy and Tim revive the long-dormant ‘What We’re Listening To’ format for an exploration of what’s been on their turntables recently. Tim pulls extensively from the bag he packed for a recent Lucky Cloud party, including selections from SAULT and Cotontete, while Jeremy shares a modern slice of Bukem-esque DnB and an end-of-the-night dreamy deep cut. Elsewhere in the show we hear a post-punk Fela cover, a classic piece of Sharon Jones funk soul, Highlife guitar, a shoutout for the humble 7”, Afrofuturist mythology and… Alan Partridge. Tracklist: Miguel ‘Anga’ Dias - A Love Supreme Evolução Africa - Liberdade SAULT - Let Me Go Cotonete feat. Leron Thomas - Day In Day Out Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings - What If We All Stopped Playing Taxes Vital Disorders - Zombie Underground System - 95 South The Earons - Land of Hunger Big Bud - Lucky7 Rubies feat. Feist - I Feel Electric (TieDye Remix)
Producer's note
Steal the structure. Not the show.
Keep the useful structure, then change the audience, point of view, and voice until the idea is unmistakably yours.
