Born to Be Free: Supporting Neurodivergent Clients to Learn, Play, & Thrive
Published by Meg Ferrell
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A podcast for professionals looking to support the deepest wellbeing of their neurodivergent clients. We focus on lived experiences, research, affirming practices, intersectionality, and the practical ways we can support authentic wellbeing. Visit learnplaythrive.com/podcast/
Ever wondered how to apply Dr. Ross Green's model of Collaborative & Proactive Solutions to your work with PDA clients? Today's guest, AuDHD mental health therapist Stacey Curnow, is writing a book about it with Dr. Green's collaboration and oversight. In today's episode, we talk about what exactly collaboration looks like in practice with PDA clients. We also dive into supporting parents, teaching daily living skills, supporting PDAers with aggressive behaviors, PDA kids in burnout, and so much more. For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
The folks at PDA North America recently surveyed over 2,000 families about PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance, or the Pervasive Drive for Autonomy). What they learned has major implications for your clinical practice. In today’s episode, you'll hear from Diane Gould, Ruth Hevelone, and Michele Kleinmann. We talk about what they learned from their PDA Experiences survey, as well as the practices that are supportive for PDAers. We talk about respect, partnership, flexibility, authenticity, congruency, and more. We also address in depth that question that so many of us get when we are accommodating our Autistic clients: "What about the real world?" If you support PDA-ers, after you listen to this conversation, make sure to also check out our Patreon where we have providers talking in-depth about how they support PDA-ers in the context of everyday SLP, OT, mental health practice. They go into how to move through rupture and repair when they get it wrong, some of our guests talk about how to support PDA-ers in burnout, how to bring autonomy into everything including regulation, and more. It's just $7 for over 30-hours of content and you can find it at patreon.com/learnplaythrive. Your support on Patreon helps us cover the cost of this podcast and keep it going. For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
When it comes to helping neurodivergent folks find playful, engaging ways to do the things they need to do, ADHD content creator Dani Donoval is the most creative person I’ve ever met. By the end of this episode, you’ll be grabbing a 20-sided die and turning your neurodivergent client into their own Dungeons and Dragons character, springboarding them out of "stuck" and into action. On this podcast, we know that our clients’ worthiness has never and will never be tied to our ability to do more and produce more. And at the same time, we know that many people struggle to do the things they have to do. Dani has broken the barriers down into five subcategories: stuck, overwhelmed, unmotivated, disorganized, and discouraged. In this episode, she helps us work through what the different types of barriers look like, and we dive into what specific strategies can help. Dani Donovan is an ADHD comic artist and the author of The Anti-Planner. For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
This episode is a deep and nuanced exploration into the seemingly competing needs of being Autistic and being ADHD. We call these folks AuDHD-ers, and they're often faced with both the need for routines that comes with being Autistic and the craving for novelty that comes with ADHD. In this episode, AuDHD psychotherapist, Dr. Bowen Marshall, helps us explore all of the complexities around AuDHD, including how ADHD and autism can be complementary and how that may change when one condition is medicated. We talk about what's tricky and what helps, and we look in every corner of this to explore the complexities of this topic, like dopamine, executive function, routines, estrogen, testosterone, gender identity, race, and more. Dr. Bowen Marshall, PhD is a licensed psychotherapist, bestselling author, and consultant specializing in ADHD, Autism, relationships, and Complex-PTSD. For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
{{Two Sides of the Spectrum is now Born to Be Free!}} This episode is a sweeping overview of the co-occurring conditions that Autistic people often experience, including OCD, depression, anxiety, ADHD, PDA, and more. Autistic Licensed Psychological Practitioner Matt Lowry helps us take a topic that can feel huge and overwhelming and reduce it to a few core themes that make affirming practice feel clear, grounded, and simple, even when we are supporting clients with more complex profiles. Matt Lowry lives and practices in Kentucky, where he specializes in autism and ADHD evaluations, and Autistic-centered therapy. He is the proud parent of an Autistic child and works to promote an understanding of autism and the Autistic lifestyle. For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
We have a new podcast name! Keep your eyes out for our first episode of Born to Be Free: Supporting Your Neurodivergent Clients to Learn, Play, and Thrive. The podcast is relaunching with an emphasis on all of the complexities our Autistic clients experience, and how we can support them in affirming ways. We're starting off with a focus on Autistic people who also have OCD, depression, anxiety, ADHD, multiple disabilities, motor difficulties, PDA, twice exceptionality, and more. Don't miss our first episode of Born to Be Free where we will talk about co-occurring conditions for Autistic people with Autistic LPP Matt Lowry, coming next week! In the meantime, get more in-depth episodes about what affirming practices look like in action at patreon.com/learnplaythrive . Or join an in-person or livestreamed training at learnplaythrive.com/trainings . For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
This episode dives into the specific needs of AuDHD-ers – that’s kids who are Autistic and have ADHD - tying in executive functioning, social-emotional well-being, and so much more. Vanessa’s take is detailed, creative, and deeply practical. You’re going to want to take notes! Vanessa Castañeda Gill is an AuDHDer and the cofounder and CEO of Social Cipher, where she and her team create social-emotional learning video games and curriculum for neurodivergent youth. Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum and recorded Q&As with our guests? Join our community at patreon.com/learnplaythrive For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
"Because therapy should feel like a collaboration and becoming, not a rehearsal and being less yourself in order to survive." - Chenai Mupotsa-Russell In this short episode, you get a sneak peek into the audio from one of our most poetic and transformative summit talks. Our continuing education summit is now $100 off and available on-demand at learnplaythrive.com/summit Selected Transcript: "Normal is not a neutral baseline. It is a construct, a fiction, a colonizing force. Normativities function to flatten difference, discipline the body, decide who gets to be seen as competent, coherent, and worthy. So, when we center neurodivergent and gender diverse lives, we're not offering inclusion into a category of 'normal' , we are refusing the category altogether. Divergence in whatever form is not a problem to solve. It is a truth. They are the most natural, beautiful, diverse, amazing ways of being rooted in sensation, relationship, rhythm, self-determination, expression. The problem has never been the child, the adult, the human. It's in the systems that punish difference in the name of order. And so, the therapeutic task is not to bring the client closer to functioning - a functioning built on an idea of a human that is so far from them and so many other people. The idea is to undo the harm that normativity has caused. It's to let go of those normativities and start to reimagine what the world could be like if we allowed for the full spectrum of human experiencing, to make space for becoming on one's own terms, however they present or move through the world. Creative practice becomes essential here. Not decorative, not soft, but radical and necessary. Sensory-based creative engagement reaches the brain, the body, the heart, the soul in ways words can't. And for those constantly coerced into verbal or behavioral conformity, art, creativity, movement becomes a language of refusal, regulation, and reclamation. The work isn't to help the client survive unjust conditions. It's to help deconstruct the conditions that made survival feel like the only option. Because therapy should feel like a collaboration and becoming, not a rehearsal in being less yourself in order to survive." From Colour Outside the Lines: Exploring Art, Gender, and Neurodivergence Beyond the Binary with Chenai Mupotsa-Russell MTAP, AThR in the Learn Play Thrive 2026 Continuing Education Summit For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
Dr. Devon Price’s work sits at the intersection of trauma-informed care and Autistic unmasking. In this interview, he walks us through five core practices for unmasking, and shares how to approach them thoughtfully with Autistic clients who have experienced trauma - which is most of the Autistic community. We explore practices such as learning your preferences and disentangling them from social norms, building resilience, cultivating distress tolerance, and shaping your life - both in big, structural ways and in the small, everyday details. A lot has been said about unmasking, but very few approaches hold the work with this level of care. Dr. Devon Price is a social psychologist, clinical associate professor at Loyola University Chicago, and an Autistic person. His books include Laziness Does Not Exist , Unlearning Shame , Unmasking Autism , and his newest release, Unmasking for Life. Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need your support! Join our community at patreon.com/learnplaythrive For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
Learning from Chenai Mupotsa-Russell will absolutely transform you. Chenai doesn't just teach us how we can use art of every kind to support well-being for our clients, she also embodies everything she teaches — art, liberation, anti-colonial practice, and so much more. In today's conversation, we explore the role that art can play in our work as providers with concrete examples, and ideas, and stories from Chenai that you can use right away. Chenai Mupotsa-Russell is an art therapist, community builder, advocate, and PhD candidate in community psychology. Her research reimagines mental health through decolonial practice, collective care, and intersectional justice. Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need your support! Join our community at https://patreon.com/learnplaythrive For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
Ableism is ingrained into our society, and many of us wonder what we can do about it. Occupational therapist Sara Zielinski decided that a huge celebration - centering disability pride - in her small town would be a great place to start. What happened next was transformative. In this episode Sara teaches us how to throw a disability pride event, why events like this matter, and how we can all be change agents in our workplaces and our communities. Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need your support! Join our community at patreon.com/learnplaythrive For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
When your Autistic clients have trouble identifying the emotions inside of their bodies, emotion-based regulation systems aren't always helpful. This episode is all about how regulation can be guided by energy levels. Specifically, how we help our Autistic clients match their energy level to what’s needed for the things they need or want to do. Our guests are the two incredible folks behind Autism Level Up. Jacquelyn Fede, who is an Autistic advocate and developmental psychologist and Amy Laurent, who is a developmental psychologist, a registered pediatric occupational therapist and co-author of the SCERTS model. Amy and Jacquelyn’s work show us that there’s no one right way to be regulated. And this model gives a profoundly impactful alternative to traditional models of regulation. This is an updated release of Episode 7 from 2020. Amy and Jacquelyn are also speaking at our 2026 Continuing Education Summit. Grab a ticket at learnplaythrive.com/summit Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum and recorded Q&As with our guests? Join us on Patreon at patreon.com/learnplaythrive. Your support on Patreon helps keep the podcast going. For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
We all know that the plans and goals that we write deeply impact what our students and clients get access to learning. Joyner Emerick – a parent and openly Autistic school board director - has completely transformed the planning process in the best possible way. Joyner has a 10 year old who is minimally speaking with high adaptive and communication support needs. In this episode, you'll hear them talk about the future visioning process they created for their child. They’ll show you how it works, how you can implement it, and the 12 valued outcomes - as Joyner calls them - that they wrote for their son. This is not a process that's for sale. We're sharing it with you in its entirety so you can take it and use it in your work too. Don't miss the show notes for this one where we share a lot of the documents, and details, and language at learnplaythrive.com/podcast . Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need your support! Join our community at patreon.com/learnplaythrive For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
This conversation with Autistic OT Sorcha Rice covers regulation for Autistic PDAers from absolutely every angle. The theme Sorcha kept bringing us back to is how we can provide more autonomy for our clients in how they identify their regulation needs and how they access their regulation tools. Sorcha walks us through a case study detailing how she supported a client who was deeply in burnout to help them access regulation, communication, connection, and safety. And at the end of the conversation, Sorcha shares five deeply transformative and practical things that you can try tomorrow in your work to help Autistic PDAers feel safer. Sorcha Rice is an Autistic PDA occupational therapist in Ireland. This is the second episode of our new twice monthly Patreon series where we showcase the people putting neurodiversity-affirming practice into action in their work. We'll explore their guiding principles and their practical strategies through conversation and case studies so that you can translate your values into your own work. Patreon subscribers also get access to recorded Q&A sessions with some of our most impactful podcast guests, and a Discourse forum to connect with other podcast listeners. Visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive to keep learning and support our podcast. For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
Have you ever thought about what it would look like to put respect for the Autistic children who are your clients – respect for them as full human beings – front and center in your work? This episode goes deep into what that looks like in practice. Mick Olds (The OccuPLAYtional Therapist) helps us learn how to translate therapy goals into kids’ native language: play. They also share with us what exactly it looks like to put child-affirming values into practice, how they support PDAers, and what they do when they feel stuck in their own skills. This episode will change you. For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
This isn't one of our normal podcast release days, and it isn't one of our typical topics, but this conversation is just too good not to share. This bonus episode is all about Autistic representation in media. In this episode, you’ll learn what comic books, TV shows, and more you should be recommending to your Autistic clients of all ages. Our guest Britton Payne is an entertainment attorney, recently of Warner Brothers Animation and Nickelodeon. On the side, Britton runs The Autism Scene, a non-profit advocating for the inclusion of explicitly, authentically Autistic characters in pop culture. This winter, The Autism Scene is running The AuSPEC AWARDS, which is a script competition…that maybe YOU will win! This episode is incredibly fun and impactful. Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need at least 100 people to join to keep the podcast running! Patreon.com/learnplaythrive For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
So many of us feel unsure how to best support Autistic kids who have aggressive behaviors. But often, what we are missing in the most foundational need for all humans: to feel worthy and to feel loved. In this powerful interview, Autistic educational consultant Rabecca Hand shows us how to examine the environment and adult interactions - before looking at the child themselves - when a child is struggling. Then she teaches us how we can use this knowledge and the research behind it to create real change in the schools and the larger culture. Patreon subscribers also get a copy of Rabecca's thoughtful classroom management framework and her extensive resource list. This is the first episode of our new twice monthly Patreon series where we showcase the people putting neurodiversity-affirming practice into action in their work. We'll explore their guiding principles and their practical strategies through conversation and case studies so that you can translate your values into your own work. Patreon subscribers also get access to recorded Q&A sessions with some of our most impactful podcast guests, and a Discourse forum to connect with other podcast listeners. Visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive to keep learning and support our podcast. For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
SLP Christina Schmidt strives to work in a way that centers a client's regulation, their identity, and their dignity. If that resonates with you, you won’t want to miss this conversation. Christina shares in detail how we can best support our clients with communication needs, our AAC users, non-speakers, kids who communicate through delayed echolalia in ways that are both neuro-affirming and culturally responsive. And she shares a model for supporting clients who don’t share our identities, applying it to a real life example of a client she supported who was deeply in burnout from being subjected to compliance-based practices. Christina Schmidt is a Black, African-American Australian, multicultural, and multi-dialectal AuDHD woman who proudly embraces her identity across all facets of her work and advocacy. She's the founder of Free to Be Me Speech Therapy where she provides neuro-affirming support to both kids and adults in a way that honors each person's unique communication needs, strengths, and ways of being. Her work is rooted in justice, joy, and the ongoing commitment to amplifying diverse voices and stories, always with the belief that we deserve to be seen, heard, and free to be. Want MORE EPISODES of Two Sides of the Spectrum, recorded Q&As with our guests, and a listener chat forum? We just launched our Patreon and we need at least 100 people to join to keep the podcast running! Patreon.com/learnplaythrive For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
All behavior makes sense, we just have to make sense of it. In this conversation, psychologist Dr. Gillian Boudreau helps us see that underlying nearly any behavior is fear. And so often, the fear is related to a child being startled, feeling trapped, or being shamed. But if you aren’t looking for it, it’s easy to miss. In this conversation we explore the nuance of each of these - especially for PDAers - and Gillian's exact roadmap for concrete ways to avoid them (complete with clever acronyms for each). This is a must-listen episode to help you understand your clients' experience in their lives and during your sessions. For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
Episode 67 was one of our most impactful episodes ever, and today we invite you to re-listen. Often as OTs and SLPs we skip right to teaching our Autistic clients new skills. But what about their experiences of felt safety while they are with us? What work do we need to do so that we can show up calm and connected and ready to support our Autistic kids to feel truly safe before they are ready to learn? Psychologist and school psychologist Dr. Gillian Boudreau talks us through this essential and often overlooked first step to supporting our Autistic clients. This is a re-airing of episode 67 in preparation for our next episode, which will be a new conversation with Dr. Gillian Boudreau that builds on this incredibly impactful episode. Check out Dr. Gillian Boudreau's full course at learnplaythrive.com/calm and her Spring reflective practice group at learnplaythrive.com/practice For show notes as well as in-person and livestreamed CE trainings visit learnplaythrive.com For more episodes visit patreon.com/learnplaythrive
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