Content and Conversation: Organic Growth Insights from Siege Media
Published by Siege Media
Marketing
Business
Using the techniques that have helped cement $148,646,000 in yearly traffic value for their clients, Siege Media and founder Ross Hudgens dive into the executional nitty gritty of what makes content rank, and how to get content shared. Topics include content marketing, SEO, digital PR, user experience and more.
Josh Blyskal, Special Projects at Profound, returns to the show for a data-rich, in-person conversation with Ross Hudgens about what's actually true in AI search right now, and what's just noise. Josh makes the case that the industry's obsession with tracking frequency is mostly a distraction (running a prompt 10x a day vs. once barely moves your visibility score) and that the real hard problem is still attribution. He walks through a new model some advanced teams are using, treating agent attention as a proxy for human attention and heavily discounting citations into "clicks,” and shares why ChatGPT referral traffic is up 60% since mid-March, especially for CPG. From there they get into why GEO is fundamentally a relationship business (the Reddit–Google negotiations, why Claude cites Reddit almost never, and the walled-garden problem), what actually separates slop from signal, and why listicles still do the "caloric work" of teaching a model an industry. Show Notes 0:00 How often should you track Prompts? 08:14 The new attribution model 14:05 GEO as a relationship business 20:05 What separates slop from signal 26:43 Product pages, versus queries and battle cards 30:21 ChatGPT vs. Claude 34:12 Future-proofing your stack 40:55 Video, social and the language arbitrage 49:18 Imitation vs. creation & where GEO is headed Show Links Josh’s website Josh on LinkedIn Preorder "Generative Engine Optimization: The Definitive Guide to AI SEO" by Ross Hudgens Subscribe for weekly episodes Listen on Apple Listen on Spotify Follow Ross on X Follow Siege Media on X Email Ross Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Ross Hudgens sits down with JH Scherck, founder of Growth Plays, for a refreshingly contrarian take on AI content. JH argues that with the right context and execution, AI already gets you 85–90% of the way to a strong B2B article, and that the real skill in 2026 is being the person who can take a B+ draft to an A+. Along the way he flips the industry's favorite critique on its head: was SEO content *ever* good? He makes the case that the bar was always low, and that it took removing humans from the equation for anyone to start caring about sentence construction and quality at all. Ross and JH also dig into where AI content genuinely works (dev tools, technical docs, location pages) versus where it falls flat, the telltale "it's 3 a.m. and your microservices are failing" intro pattern, why plugging more data sources into your workflow isn't differentiation, whether people will stop browsing websites and just chat with them, the perils nobody's discussing, how your product's history follows you around in LLMs, and why AI turns C players into more prolific C players rather than A players. Show Notes 0:00 Getting 85% There: Where AI Already Beats Most Writers 4:45 The AI Doer vs. the AI Reviewer 8:48 "Was SEO Content Ever Good?" Rethinking the Slop Debate 12:24 What Actually Differentiates Content Now 16:13 Will People Stop Browsing and Just Chat With Your Site? 21:45 The Perilous Side of AI Content Nobody's Discussing 33:07 Maintenance Mode & Why Your History Follows You in LLMs 39:29 Educating Executives & Avoiding the "Slop Cannon" 48:12 Traffic Recovery, Brand Problems & Qualifying Clients Out 53:34 The Truth About ChatGPT Leads & Aggregate Citation Data Show Links Visit Growth Plays Follow JH on LinkedIn Preorder "Generative Engine Optimization: The Definitive Guide to AI SEO" by Ross Hudgens Subscribe for weekly episodes Listen on Apple Listen on Spotify Follow Ross on X Follow Siege Media on X Email Ross Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Ross Hudgens sits down with Aja Frost, Sr. Director of Global Growth & Paid at HubSpot, to open up the playbook behind one of the most advanced GEO/AEO programs in SaaS. Aja shares how HubSpot has been investing in answer engine optimization since early 2023 and how the company turned a very public blog traffic decline into a "Phoenix from the ashes" story, becoming the single most visible CRM in LLMs. They get tactical on writing for the bot (her "B2B2C" framing and "tofu with a twist" content strategy), why visibility beats citation share as a KPI, how HubSpot tracks prompts down to the feature level, and why audience size barely predicts who gets cited. Aja also breaks down HubSpot's creator and affiliate strategy, the durable (and not-so-durable) ways to earn off-site mentions, a deep dive on doing Reddit authentically, and how she reorganized her 65-person team around products instead of web properties. Show Notes 0:00 – HubSpot's GEO playbook 2:21 – Why AI evaluation predicts purchase intent 03:48 – Becoming the top CRM in LLMs 06:31 – Writing for the bots 11:07 – How HubSpot tracks its prompts 18:16 – Audience size doesn't predict citations 25:15 – Affiliates and valuing a citation 37:30 – The Reddit deep dive 49:27 – Inside HubSpot's reorg Show Links Aja on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajafrost/ Aja’s website: https://ajafrost.com/ Aja on The HubSpot Marketing blog: https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/author/aja-frost AEO Sensor: https://www.hubspot.com/aeo-sensor Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Ross Hudgens sits down with Tom Critchlow, founder of AI Search Leaders (the evolution of his SEO MBA community), for a candid conversation about what GEO actually is in 2026 and why nobody has fully cracked it yet. Tom makes the case that AI search measurement looks far more like brand measurement than classic SEO: less about prompt monitoring and keyword ranking, more about share of model, awareness, and how LLMs describe you (not just whether they cite you). Along the way they dig into the "yes" stance SEOs need to take with executives, why brand, PR, and product teams, not SEO teams, tend to own the outcomes that move GEO, the real career risk facing SEOs, technical SEO in the age of model distillation, NavBoost and clicks as a trust signal, and the personalized, push-not-pull future of search. Show Notes 0:00 – Why SEOs can't afford to be defensive 2:35 – How do you measure GEO? 6:24 – Measuring GEO like a brand 15:04 – Who really owns GEO? 23:26 – Technical SEO in the AI age 30:36 – Stop chasing tactics 37:09 – Selling GEO amid uncertainty 41:21 – NavBoost, clicks as trust 51:39 – Personalization, privacy and the future of search Show Links AI Search Leaders: https://www.searchleaders.ai/ Your Inbox Might be the Next AI Search Signal: https://ipullrank.com/google-personal-intelligence-experiment Why Every AI Search Platform Is Now Agentic and What That Means for Your Content: https://ipullrank.com/agentic-rag Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Follow Ross on X: https://twitter.com/rosshudgens Follow Siege Media on X: https://twitter.com/siegemedia Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Ross Hudgens sits down with Eli Schwartz, author of Product-Led SEO and former VP of SEO at SurveyMonkey, for a wide-ranging conversation on the real state of SEO in 2026. They break down Google's new AI search guidance (spoiler: it's basically just SEO), why there's a massive mismatch between what companies want from SEO teams and what they're getting, and why Eli thinks the SEO career path is broken but the demand for real SEO has never been higher. They also get into which industries are best positioned for the LLM era, why technical SEO is actually becoming more valuable, and why Eli thinks SEOs should start thinking of themselves as product managers. Chapter Markers 00:00:10 – Google's new AI search guidance 00:07:26 – Manipulation isn’t a strategy 00:12:22 – The SEO career mismatch 00:17:50 – Why SEO teams can't show their value 00:25:26 – New entrants and dying conferences 00:36:17 – The skills SEOs need now 00:43:35 – Why the best SEOs build things 00:57:45 – Which industries win in the LLM era Show Links Google’s GEO advice: https://developers.google.com/search/docs/fundamentals/ai-optimization-guide Eli on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze/ Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Follow Ross on X: https://twitter.com/rosshudgens Follow Siege Media on X: https://twitter.com/siegemedia Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Ross Hudgens welcomes Lily Ray, VP of SEO Strategy & Research at Amsive — this time in person — for a wide-ranging conversation on what's actually working (and what's getting patched) in AI search right now. They dig into the rise and likely fall of self-promotional listicles and comparison pages, the new wave of GEO manipulation tactics already being flagged as spam by Google and Microsoft, and how to build visibility that's genuinely algorithm-proof. Lily also shares how her team is using AI day-to-day, what the technical GEO checklist looks like in 2026, and why she's still betting on Google winning the AI search race long-term. Show Notes: 00:00:11 – Lily's new consulting practice at Algorithmic 00:02:11 – The rise and fall of self-promotional listicles 00:08:11 – Comparison pages and alternative posts 00:12:38 – Authentic authority vs. paid influence 00:15:42 – GEO exploits Google & Microsoft flag as spam 00:27:23 – Using AI day-to-day 00:30:46 – The GEO technical checklist 00:36:27 – Predicting the Next 12 Months Show Links: Find Lily at Amsive: https://www.amsive.com/insights/author/lily-ray/ Follow Lily on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lily-ray-44755615/ Follow Lily on X: https://x.com/lilyraynyc Lily’s Substack: https://lilyraynyc.substack.com/ Subscribe for weekly episodes: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Follow Ross on X: https://twitter.com/rosshudgens Follow Siege Media on X: https://twitter.com/siegemedia Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Noah Greenberg, CEO of Stacker, joins Ross to break down how his platform distributes brand content as earned media across thousands of news publishers and why it's becoming a core part of modern SEO, digital PR, and GEO strategy. They dig into the nuances of doing syndication the right way, from canonical tags and editorial standards to why Stacker's network of 3,000+ publishers makes it a fundamentally different play than old-school link building. Noah also explains how the rise of GEO is reshaping the value of syndication, as brands discover that republishing content across hundreds of news outlets dramatically increases the surface area for LLM citations. Ross and Noah close out with a practical breakdown of what content actually performs on the newswire: proprietary data stories only your brand can tell, public data localized by geography, and well-timed "news you can use" tied to seasonal events. If you're a brand, agency, or SEO thinking about content distribution, this one is worth your full attention. Show Notes: 0:00 What Is Stacker? Distribution, Earned Media & How It Works 01:20 How Stacker Solved the Chicken-and-Egg Problem with Publishers 08:23 Google's Syndication Warning & Why Stacker Plays It White Hat 13:11 The Real SEO & GEO Value of Content Syndication 17:04 Who Is Stacker Actually a Good Fit For? (B2B vs. B2C) 22:39 Local Content, Localization at Scale & Why It Outperforms 27:17 How Stacker Scales Across 3,000 Publishers Without Oversaturating 35:35 3 Types of Content That Consistently Win on the Newswire Show Links: Follow Noah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahg/ Stacker: https://stacker.com/ Follow Ross on X: https://x.com/RossHudgens: Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
In this episode of Content and Conversation , Ross Hudgens sits down with Devin Bramhall to unpack what’s broken in modern B2B marketing and what actually works when metrics get messy and attribution falls apart. They talk through Devin’s experience writing B2B Content Marketing Strategy , why “media-first” is now table stakes, and how community is often misunderstood, mis-scoped, or forced into the wrong formats. Devin shares real examples from her work at Help Scout and beyond, showing how strong communities are built by paying attention to people, not playbooks. Show Notes: 00:00 – Intro/Marketing can’t be measured with numbers alone 05:30 – Writing a book when you already know the answer 10:20 – Media-first content marketing explained 15:00 – What community actually means (and what it doesn’t) 20:30 – Real-world community examples that worked 28:30 – Outcomes vs activities in marketing reporting 35:00 – Telling a story your CEO will understand 44:30 – When community is the wrong strategy Show Links: B2B Content Marketing Strategy Book by Devin Bramhall Follow Ross on X: https://x.com/RossHudgens Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Bernard Huang returns to break down GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) and the big question: is GEO actually different from SEO, or just SEO evolving? We talk about how AI Mode/AI Overviews are changing search behavior, why top-funnel traffic is getting squeezed, and what “good SEO is good GEO” really means in practice. Show Notes: 00:00 – Welcome back & why GEO is everywhere 03:05 – Is GEO actually different from SEO? 07:10 – How AI agents think vs keyword-based SEO 12:45 – The traffic apocalypse & AI Mode becoming default 18:00 – Mentions vs backlinks in an LLM world 24:30 – What people are getting wrong about GEO 30:45 – Measuring success: impressions, citations & brand search 42:55 – The “long, long tail” and the future of content strategy Show Links: Follow Bernard on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bernardjhuang/ Visit Clearscope: https://www.clearscope.io/ Follow Ross on X: https://x.com/RossHudgens Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Ross welcomes Gaetano DiNardi, growth advisor and B2B SaaS strategist, to unpack the brutal questions CEOs are suddenly firing at their SEO teams in the AI era: traffic is flat or down, attribution is messy, LLM dashboards look scary, and everyone wants to know if SEO is still “working.” They dig into why traffic is no longer the primary health metric, how AI Overviews and LLMs are breaking the old “rank → CTR → traffic → leads → revenue” equation, and why CMOs should obsess less over sessions and more over demo requests, pipeline, deal size, and overall organic channel performance. Gaetano shares how he’s reframing SEO for mid-market B2B SaaS: shifting from decaying top-of-funnel content to bottom-of-funnel “money pages,” optimizing for LLM citations and “money prompts,” and using concepts like “crash-the-party” comparison pages to win high-intent demand across both Google and AI platforms. They also break down why LLM prompt tracking is the new rank tracking (with all the same pitfalls), how AI platform traffic actually converts compared to Google, what “dark funnel SEO” looks like in practice, and why Gaetano thinks classic TOFU SEO might effectively go to zero while brand, data studies, and opinionated thought leadership pick up the slack. Show Notes 0:08 – Gaetano returns & why last year’s SEO playbook no longer works 1:17 – CEOs’ top question: “Traffic is down… is SEO still working?” 2:17 – Why B2B SaaS is feeling the decline hardest 3:16 – The old rank → CTR → traffic → revenue model is broken 5:46 – Top-of-funnel content is collapsing (and why TOFU is “dead-ish”) 6:13 – The shift to bottom-funnel: BOFU keywords, low volume, high intent 7:11 – Flat traffic + rising revenue: the new SEO success story 8:01 – What LLMs cite: comparisons, “best X” lists, crash-the-party pages 8:38 – Crash-the-party SEO explained in 15 seconds 13:21 – LLM prompt dashboards are misleading your executives 15:53 – Branded vs. non-branded LLM prompts: why you MUST separate them 18:06 – Build a tight list of “money prompts,” not 500 random ones 20:06 – Why AI platforms show higher conversion rates than Google 22:10 – Dark-funnel behavior: LLM → Google → homepage → convert 24:08 – Google leads have FAR larger deal sizes than AI leads 27:35 – SEO attribution is officially “cooked” in the AI era 29:27 – Traffic flat, pipeline up 3×: examples from real clients 31:25 – Use top-10 stability to prove AI Overviews stole your clicks 34:47 – Search is becoming BOFU-first — what that means 35:34 – LLM citations as the new leading indicator for SEO 39:00 – Exploding topics = more LLM citations due to low consensus 41:22 – Engagement validates information gain (why POV content wins) 47:20 – What happens to TOFU SEO? (Short answer: it shrinks massively) 48:49 – Why TOFU may survive only for authority, clustering, and links Gaetano on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/officialg/ Tough Questions CEOs Are Asking About AI SEO: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1T_IQXUCXBQtFcLekVFwqv23y8ViuRFJKBIRtn4wcImQ/edit?usp=sharing Does traffic from AI platforms convert “better” than Google search traffic?: https://marketingadvice.substack.com/p/869517ce-4629-429f-addd-518d9342cdff CMOs are frantically asking “what’s our Reddit strategy?: https://marketingadvice.substack.com/p/cmos-are-frantically-asking-whats LLM prompt tracking is the new rank tracking: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/officialg_llm-prompt-monitoring-is-quickly-becoming-activity-737 7069814458097664-KLyi/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop&rcm=ACoAAAj OemoBsmGgXOOcFpcwGVG1B7IlDCvf8io Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Ross sits down with Josh Spilker, Content Marketing & SEO Lead at AirOps, to unpack the rise of the content engineer — what it means, why it matters, and how it’s reshaping SEO and content operations. They dive into Ryan Law’s critique, hybrid-AI workflows, org-chart ownership, automation opportunities, and why Josh believes AI doesn’t kill content — it rewires strategy. Plus: the “context librarian” concept, content refresh automation, spotting slipping queries, using multiple models together, and avoiding low-quality AI traps. Show Notes: 0:08 – What is a “content engineer” and why the role is emerging 1:17 – How content engineering evolved from early UX concepts 2:13 – Who fits best in this role: writers, SEOs, or automation pros? 3:39 – Ryan Law’s critique: “I wouldn’t hire a content engineer” 4:51 – Internal linking as a powerful semi-automated workflow 5:56 – From manual outlines to AI-assisted research and briefs 6:48 – Balancing AI workflows and human-led quality control 7:24 – Why “Director of Automation” might better describe the role 8:35 – Who should lead content automation inside organizations 9:15 – AI text generation vs. hybrid workflows: what’s really working 10:38 – The limits of pure AI content and why oversight matters 11:19 – How AirOps customers use hybrid models for scale 12:01 – Using multiple models (ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity) together 13:02 – The “7% of AI pages” debate and Patrick Stox’s counter-data 14:19 – How editorial standards and compliance shape AI adoption 15:23 – “AI doesn’t kill content — it rewires strategy” 16:15 – Refresh workflows: detecting pages and queries that slip 17:18 – Where content engineers fit in the org chart today 18:16 – The rise of the “context librarian” for brand knowledge bases 19:19 – Combining brand governance with AI-driven workflows 20:21 – How automation can unify voice and style across teams 21:32 – Why AI helps close the creative gap faster, not replace writers 22:29 – Teaching non-engineers to think like product builders 23:19 – Breaking down creative processes into repeatable systems 24:07 – Turning everyday editorial routines into structured workflows 25:08 – Automating meeting summaries and reporting emails 26:12 – Using AI to surface key quotes and podcast clip highlights 27:17 – “Transformation content”: repurposing, summarizing, clipping 28:13 – AirOps’ content strategy: optimization, refresh, iteration 29:04 – Refresh workflows tied to GSC data and ranking drops 30:33 – Risks of shallow “freshness updates” and engagement metrics 31:47 – How informed SEOs make the best use of AirOps workflows 32:07 – Why fundamentals matter before scaling with AI tools 33:02 – Barry Bonds analogy: AI only helps pros with solid foundations 34:15 – Automating backlink outreach with contextual relevance 35:34 – Why personalization still wins over high-volume outreach 36:17 – The balance between automation and editorial craft 37:11 – Where to find Josh’s webinars, reports, and AirOps resources Josh Spilker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshspilker AirOps: https://www.airops.com AirOps Webinars: https://www.airops.com/categories/events Ahrefs Post (Ryan Law): https://ahrefs.com/blog/i-wouldnt-hire-a-content-engineer Patrick Stox Response: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/patrickstox_im-sure-youre-all-seeing-the-study-saying-activity-7385017156213788672-5srr Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Caroline Gilbert — Director of Content & Editorial at Angi — joins Ross Hudgens to explore how one of the largest home-services brands is using AI to scale, transform, and optimize content operations. They discuss how Caroline’s team doubled Angi’s content library to 12,000+ articles, how AI helps maintain top-funnel visibility amid shifting search behaviors, and the nuanced balance between human expertise and generative automation. Caroline breaks down the three pillars of Angi’s AI framework — generation, transformation, and operations — and how they’ve automated everything from brief creation to CMS ingestion while keeping a strong editorial voice. Plus: lessons learned from early AI missteps, real examples of disclosure testing, and how AI is reshaping both content creation and search behavior itself. Show Notes 0:08 – From cost guides to “everything home”: expanding Angi’s library 1:00 – Moving up-funnel: education, troubleshooting, light DIY, and when to hire 2:14 – Top-funnel ROI drops as AI overviews change search behavior 2:56 – Why Angi adopts gen-AI: maintain helpful content without heavy human lift 3:27 – Staying visible where intent is early but brand value matters 4:45 – Content becomes commodity: deciding where humans add unique value 5:55 – Evergreen “how-to” steps vs. human nuance (risks, gotchas, pro POV) 7:18 – How AI is used: full refreshes, component injections, data-driven sizing 9:01 – The real trade-off: human time vs. technology time 9:26 – Scale context: 5k → 12k pages (growth mostly human-led) 9:41 – Three pillars: generation, transformation, operations 10:38 – Ops wins: briefs, automated edits/QA, CMS ingestion, minutes → hours 12:21 – Designers focus on UX polish when ingestion is 98% done 12:58 – Where AI struggled: risky DIY (HVAC/roofing), brand POV, nuance 15:02 – Licensing content is messy (state/county rules): tighter human review 17:19 – Design: generate/transform/streamline + “vibe coding” prototypes 20:18 – Pilot first: small cohorts, guardrails, measure engagement/conversions 21:22 – Disclosure tests: placement/tone matter; users split ~50/50 on trust 25:53 – “Tools, time, or talent”: when to push pro hire messaging 27:39 – Differentiators: pro interviews + Angi’s original homeowner cost data 28:07 – AI helps editors analyze like analysts; humans shape the story 29:19 – Looking ahead: AI shifting search from answers to utilities/experiences Show Links Caroline Gilbert on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caroline-gilbert-41463518/ Angi: https://www.angi.com/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Matt Bowers — SEO and LLM consultant, formerly of Zapier and Zillow — joins Ross Hudgens for a deep dive into how AI is transforming programmatic SEO. They explore what’s working and what’s not for large-scale, AI-assisted content strategies — from full-AI “use-case” pages to hybrid human workflows. Matt breaks down examples of successful AI programmatic sites, the pitfalls of duplicate content, and the emerging “information gain” paradigm shaping rankings post-2024. They also discuss the limits of AI in UX-driven verticals, personalization opportunities, long-tail visibility in LLMs like ChatGPT, and how data-driven scaling can still give human SEOs a competitive edge. Plus: the rise and fall of Greg.app, the future of personalization, Zillow’s “Project Boggle,” and practical tools like Builder.io, Strapi, and AirOps that power modern programmatic builds. Show Notes 0:08 – Matt returns for round two: programmatic SEO meets AI 1:00 – Are “pure AI” sites actually winning? What’s working and what’s not 2:06 – Inside a million-visit-per-month AI programmatic play 3:15 – Structuring AI content around real use cases, not blog posts 4:22 – Why old GPT-3.5 copy can still rank — and the “don’t mess with success” mantra 5:03 – Dwell time as a differentiator: the “product as content” advantage 6:13 – How AI copy helps with indexing and duplicate-content differentiation 7:17 – Why Google probably isn’t detecting AI directly and what it does instead 8:11 – The “high-DR arbitrage” era of AI content — and why it’s fading 10:11 – Why most public AI case studies stay anonymous 11:16 – Case study: Greg.app — AI-generated plant care pages done right 12:03 – How prompt engineering + UX elevate AI content 13:13 – Prompting each paragraph individually vs. one giant prompt 15:21 – Two winning models: product-driven and UX-driven AI programmatic 16:15 – Why blog-style AI content still struggles and the “pizza” metaphor 20:05 – Greg.app’s traffic drop: lessons from a 75% decline 22:21 – AI’s scalability advantage — and its ROI trade-offs 25:24 – Zillow’s data advantage: proprietary enrichment and GIS precision 26:16 – When AI enables pages that “shouldn’t exist” by human economics 27:21 – Scaling what can’t be scaled: the real AI unlock 28:16 – Competing in local long-tail SERPs with AI vs. humans 28:31 – Traits of losing players: low information gain, weak differentiation 29:20 – Why “information gain” may be the new ranking factor 30:06 – Proprietary data as the ultimate SEO differentiator 31:00 – How real estate UX converged — and why speed and personalization win 33:00 – When non-AI programmatic still wins: data-only, high-usability pages 35:07 – Where AI doesn’t belong: when usability is more important than copy 35:37 – Personalization and the future of AI-driven recommendations 37:07 – The Perplexity vision: a world run by AI agents and voice search 39:06 – What AI agents mean for SEO and monetization 40:38 – Long-tail demand from LLMs and how Zapier used programmatic pages 42:29 – How LLMs discover your use cases and why it matters 43:20 – Using internal data to fuel new programmatic ideas Project Boggle 46:09 – Generating new landing pages from user search inputs 47:52 – Internal search data as a goldmine for programmatic expansion 48:30 – Tools of the trade: AirOps, Builder.io, Strapi, and hybrid stacks 49:43 – Why programmatic SEO still needs human PMs and engineers 50:08 – Where to find Matt online Show Links Matt Bowers on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpbow/ Matt’s Website: https://mattb.rs/ Greg.app AI plant care example: https://greg.app/plant-care/monstera Strapi CMS: https://strapi.io/ AirOps: https://www.airops.com/ Builder.io: https://www.builder.io/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Nick LeRoy, Enterprise SEO Consultant and author of *SEO For Lunch*, joins Ross Hudgens to debate a hot topic in SEO right now — the rise of “Best X” listicles and the emergence of what Nick calls **LLM PBNs**. They unpack the ethics, brand risk, and strategic value of publishing your own “best” lists to capture AI-era visibility and how tactics once considered gray hat are being re-examined in the age of ChatGPT and AI Overviews. If you’ve ever wondered whether to publish your own “Best X” article (or what happens when you do), this episode dives deep into the data, the risk, and the real takeaways for modern SEO strategy. **Plus:** brand perception vs. performance marketing, AI training data, the ethics of self-ranking, and why most “shortcuts” aren’t worth it in 2025. Show Notes 0:08 – Why Nick wrote his post on LLM PBNs and “Best X” articles 1:00 – Defining the three types of listicles: self-hosted, third-party, and PBNs 3:23 – Why AI and search are blurring ethical lines for content manipulation 5:00 – The real risk: brand perception and user trust over rankings 8:01 – Do “Best X” articles actually drive qualified leads? 10:09 – Why these listicles still work tactically in B2B SEO 12:12 – How to do it right: objectivity, transparency, and editorial value 14:01 – The importance of segmenting by use case (“best for enterprise,” etc.) 16:15 – Outbound links, nofollow abuse, and why honesty still wins 17:36 – When to avoid listicles entirely (and why product quality matters most) 20:24 – LLM PBNs vs. traditional PBNs — and why they’re not worth it 23:22 – Affiliate influence and how AI learns from “best of” lists 25:33 – Why bad products can’t rank long term (no matter the tactics) 27:26 – Testing ethically: what Nick learned from black-hat experiments 30:48 – The SMB risk: how FOMO and “easy buttons” hurt small businesses 33:19 – Better investments for local brands than AI visibility schemes 35:20 – Why starting from scratch is tougher than ever in SEO 37:07 – The future of niche review sites like Zyppy and why they matter 38:30 – Final takeaway: research deeply and focus on long-term trust Show Links Nick LeRoy on LinkedIn: [https://www.linkedin.com/in/nickleroy/] SEO For Lunch Newsletter: [https://www.seoforlunch.com/] Nick’s post on LLM PBNs: [https://www.seoforlunch.com/p/llm-pbns] Zyppy (by Cyrus Shepard): [https://zyppy.com/] Siege Media Enterprise SEO Consulting: [https://www.siegemedia.com/strategy/enterprise-seo-consultants] Siege Media Best Fintech Marketing Agencies: [https://www.siegemedia.com/strategy/best-fintech-marketing-agencies] Mentimeter Kahoot Alternatives Example: [https://www.mentimeter.com/blog/education/kahoot-alternatives] Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Shannon Minkel, Senior Director of Product SEO at Siege Media, joins Ross Hudgens to unpack one of the biggest questions in search right now: did Google just kill rank tracking beyond page two? They explore what this shift means for SEOs—whether it’s a sign to finally focus on input metrics, how declining referral traffic from ChatGPT impacts strategy, and what Similarweb and Siege Media’s own research reveal about changing engagement rates. From GA4 benchmarks to the future of AI search, this episode breaks down the data, the rumors, and the real-world implications for anyone navigating SEO in 2025. Plus: input metrics, lagging indicators, Similarweb’s ChatGPT data, and why Google’s rumored “AI mode” rollout could redefine how we measure success. 0:08 – Why Google’s rank tracking changes matter now 1:14 – Is rank tracking beyond page two dead? 2:36 – The rise of input metrics and controllable KPIs 4:09 – ChatGPT referral traffic declines across Siege, Ahrefs & Profound 6:12 – Similarweb’s data on ChatGPT usage growth vs. declining engagement 8:04 – What lagging indicators like ChatGPT quality mean for SEOs 9:28 – Interpreting GA4 engagement rates and site health signals 11:05 – Google’s rumored AI mode rollout (and roll-back) 13:17 – The future of attribution in a generative search world 15:21 – How SEOs should adapt reporting for execs in 2025 17:43 – Why input metrics may replace old rank-tracking habits 20:05 – What Shannon is watching most closely in AI search Shannon Minkel on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shannonminkel GA4 engagement rates → https://www.siegemedia.com/research/ga4-engagement-rates ChatGPT referral traffic study → https://www.siegemedia.com/strategy/chatgpt-referral-traffic-data SEJ: https://searchengineland.com/google-search-rank-and-position-tracking-is-a-mess-right-now-461984 Similarweb on ChatGPT growth: https://x.com/Similarweb/status/1965726707832528974 SEMrush: https://www.semrush.com/blog/google-usage-after-chatgpt-adoption/ ChatGPT vs. Google study: https://chatgpt-vs-google.com/ Input Metrics for SEO newsletter: https://newsletter.seomba.com/p/input-metrics-for-seo Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Zach Chahalis, VP of SEO at Apartments.com, joins Ross Hudgens for a deep dive into the high-stakes world of real estate SEO—where listings change daily, pages balloon into the hundreds of thousands, and competition is cutthroat across every SERP. They explore how Zach’s team manages SEO at scale, including 75+ site migrations, advanced internal linking via entity modeling, and custom AI agents built to streamline content operations. From avoiding redirect chains to handling rental “orphan pages,” this episode is packed with hard-earned lessons for SEOs working at enterprise scale. Plus: duplicate content, the future of AI search in real estate, and why your site should never go through a migration before Black Friday. Show Notes 0:08 – Zach’s role at Apartments.com and SEO in high-competition markets 1:00 – Biggest pitfalls in site migrations: communication and redirect logic 2:00 – Why bad redirect chains are like sending mail to your old address 3:39 – What to expect from traffic drops post-migration 5:06 – The difference between redesigns, CMS moves, and full migrations 7:42 – How entity linking models boost internal linking and relevance 9:55 – The user and SEO value of cross-linking neighborhood/location pages 11:51 – How Zach’s team measures and improves internal page authority 13:17 – Their in-house SEO testing program and what they’ve learned 15:01 – When they ignore positive SEO test results to preserve UX 16:41 – Managing orphaned rental pages and lifecycle SEO logic 19:05 – What they show users when listings go offline 21:24 – When to 404 vs. redirect in real estate or e-commerce 23:37 – Competing in a duplicate content world: data + experience wins 25:56 – Using proprietary data (e.g., 3D tours) to differentiate listings 27:28 – Real estate’s slower exposure to AI Overviews 28:19 – AI as productivity booster: writing, research, and landlord tools 30:46 – How internal teams use AI to speed up editorial content creation 33:50 – Why real estate is less impacted by AI than other verticals 35:59 – Indexing the long tail: 250K+ neighborhoods, 40K city pages 37:55 – Agentic workflows: surfacing internal data to speed up content 40:58 – How AI flags Fair Housing violations before content goes live 42:48 – Building secure, proprietary pipelines for real estate data 44:03 – Where to find Zach online Show Links Zach Chahalis on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zacharychahalis Zach’s website: https://www.zacharychahalis.com Hyperlocal Content from a National Lens deck: https://speakerdeck.com/zjchahalis/hyperlocal-content-from-a-national-lens Apartments.com: https://www.apartments.com/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Tom Critchlow, EVP of Audience Growth at Raptive, joins Ross for a deep dive into how input metrics can transform SEO strategy—especially in an era of declining visibility and messy attribution from AI search engines. They explore how input metrics improve executive reporting, unlock budget, and build cross-functional alignment by shifting focus from vanity outcomes to controllable, operational activities. Tom shares insights from his time at Raptive, lessons from Amazon’s internal frameworks, and practical tips for teams to track quality, not just quantity. If you're navigating SEO in 2025, this episode is your playbook. Plus: scorecards, dashboards, quality benchmarks, and how input metrics can shape strategic storytelling at every level of an org. Show Notes 0:08 – Why “getting SEO done” starts with business communication 1:14 – Executive buy-in and the underrated power of input metrics 2:06 – What are controllable input metrics? Lessons from Amazon 3:24 – Why output-only reporting drives blind decision-making 5:06 – Building reports that pair input + output for alignment 7:01 – Input metrics: weekly/monthly rhythm vs quarterly output 9:15 – Goal-setting tension: input vs output metrics for teams 11:24 – Why SEOs need to “make their work legible” to leadership 12:30 – Input metrics as a path to getting more SEO budget 14:20 – The missing business case for many SEO initiatives 15:33 – Raptive case study: measuring behavior change over clicks 18:02 – Building input metrics from scratch: the 9-month reality 19:51 – Amazon’s evolving metrics: controllability over time 21:26 – Mapping input metrics to what actually drives success 22:33 – The danger of metric sprawl—and how to refocus 23:59 – Why some SEO work becomes “invisible” without input metrics 25:13 – Three metrics per person: a practical ceiling 26:51 – How input metrics support pipeline generation in B2B 28:35 – Communicating SEO value to non-executives via unit economics 30:06 – Stop yelling “fix it”—report what’s not getting done 31:22 – Translating editorial quality into spreadsheet metrics 33:06 – Red, yellow, green ≠ strategic clarity—track actual numbers 34:08 – Attribution is broken: input metrics matter more than ever 36:43 – Benchmarking input metrics against competitors 38:03 – Don’t just track AI visibility—track the work you can control 39:02 – Why input metrics aren’t neutral—and why that’s OK 41:01 – Planning cycles: why it takes 6 months to see input adoption 42:15 – Measuring “quality”: content scores, CSATs, and rubrics 44:25 – Why you must operationalize “quality” to get promoted 46:08 – Manual scoring systems and quality baselines 47:13 – Where to find Tom and what he’s working on next Show Links Tom Critchlow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomcritchlow Tom’s blog: http://tomcritchlow.com Input Metrics for SEO article: https://newsletter.seomba.com/p/input-metrics-for-seo Raptive: https://raptive.com Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Ross joins Will Critchlow of SearchPilot for a wide-ranging conversation on the evolving landscape of e-commerce SEO and content strategy in the AI era. They cover how e-commerce brands are adapting content for multimodal search, why digital PR is surging, what still works in a zero-click world, and how Siege’s homepage study reveals surprising traffic shifts from AI engines like ChatGPT and Google’s AI Overviews. Ross also shares lessons from working with Instacart, thoughts on EEAT, brand building in 2025, and how SEOs can think more like product teams to win long-term. Plus: goal-setting, basketball, and how to build your perfect calendar. Show Notes 0:08 – Introductions 1:00 – Ross on what e-commerce clients are asking for in 2025 2:12 – High-fidelity content and why it still drives SEO value 3:24 – The digital PR spike—and why it might not be right for every brand 4:17 – Rethinking link building: content that earns links without outreach 5:11 – The shift from link bait to real brand-building campaigns 6:34 – Why measuring content value is still messy 7:28 – Investing in analytics and attribution models that actually work 8:52 – Instacart case study: how it’s still winning in 2025 9:59 – Calculators as a defensible content type against AI overviews 11:15 – Homepage traffic is up 10%—what Siege’s study found 12:56 – Differences in B2B vs B2C AI traffic attribution 14:15 – How AI referrals may go dark: no referrer, just branded visits 15:40 – SearchPilot’s view: aggregating dark and disaggregated traffic sources 17:20 – How LM-driven browsing creates long tail referral lift 18:57 – AI is doing the searching: optimizing for “robot” queries 21:00 – Why retrieval-augmented generation (RAG) matters for e-commerce 22:44 – Digital PR’s role in influencing AI citation engines 23:51 – Siege’s brand mention study: impressions up, but who’s watching? 25:20 – Review volume = the next big SEO edge in e-commerce 26:04 – Instacart’s product reviews may be helping SEO more than you think 27:15 – Human authorship: should you expose expert bylines? 28:52 – Where author signals matter most 30:04 – Real-world reviews are the new long tail content strategy 31:09 – Who’s doing it well? 32:14 – Brand authority, SEO signals, and Siege’s convo with Dr. Pete 33:48 – Building a brand health dashboard (and what to track in 2025) 36:18 – Who owns content? SEO increasingly embedded in product teams 37:40 – Product SEO as a mindset, not just a technical checklist 39:24 – Optimizer mentality, health goals, and personal systems 40:11 – Ross’s “perfect calendar” and how it supports business goals 42:06 – Will on process goals vs outcome goals in business and life 43:44 – Can you be too optimized? Balancing mental health and iteration 45:07 – Long-term vision in a 3-week world 46:00 – Where to find Ross online and what Siege is working on next Show Links Will Critchlow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/willcritchlow Homepage Study: https://www.siegemedia.com/strategy/ai-homepage-traffic-increase SearchPilot: https://www.searchpilot.com/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Josh Blyskal, AEO Engineer at Profound, joins Ross Hudgens to dive deep into the emerging world of AI-native search optimization—and how brands can win visibility across platforms like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google’s AI Overviews. They unpack Profound’s Conversation Explorer, fresh data on generative search intent, and the real-world tactics that drive clicks in the new AI-dominated SERP. From schema tips to 2025 URL hacks and LMS.txt files, this is the tactical roadmap for modern marketers navigating the future of search. Show Notes 0:08 – Why AI-native visibility is heating up 1:00 – Profound's Series A and platform momentum 2:15 – The moment for AI search is here 4:40 – How Profound built the largest dataset of answer engine queries 7:12 – New ad tech categories marketers aren’t tracking 9:40 – What “generative” search intent actually looks like 11:25 – Tools vs. blogs: what answer engines really cite 13:00 – Why traffic quality from AI sources is insanely high 15:05 – The rise of sponsored AI queries (and what to do about it) 16:50 – How to future-proof your site for ChatGPT + Perplexity 20:00 – Listicles dominate AI search—here’s why 22:30 – What Bing has to do with ChatGPT visibility 24:00 – URL strategies for boosting citations 28:40 – Semantic chunking and structured answers for pickup 31:00 – 2025 SEO hacks: title tags, slugs, and metadata tips 33:45 – Schema markup that actually works (hint: authorship) 36:00 – How freshness impacts AI citation cycles 39:20 – LMS.txt and LMS-fulltext: the new crawl frontier 41:10 – Why answer engines could free up web creativity 43:30 – Commercial landing pages are the future of evergreen visibility 46:00 – Profound’s upcoming launch: actions and content briefs 48:30 – Pricing, access, and how to get started with Profound Show Links Josh Blyskal on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-blyskal/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshua-blyskal/ What content do AI engines like: https://www.xfunnel.ai/blog/what-content-type-ai-engines-like Profound: https://www.tryprofound.com/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
Chris Kelly, ex-Asana growth lead, joins Ross Hudgens to break down how Asana scaled to 20M+ international SEO visits—and how to do it again in 2025. They dive into localization strategy, market prioritization, TMS tools, team structures, and how to tie international SEO directly to business outcomes. Chris also unpacks real-world mistakes, market-specific tactics, and where AI fits into future-proofing global content. Show Notes 0:08 – How Chris led Asana’s international SEO from 0 to 20M+ visits 2:12 – Aligning SEO with real business outcomes 4:27 – How to prioritize markets and go deep, not wide 6:06 – Why "strategy before scale" matters more than ever 9:09 – Centralized vs. distributed SEO models 10:13 – The localization decision waterfall: MT, native copy, or hybrid? 13:11 – Tiered frameworks for scaling efficiently across regions 16:43 – Localization teams and SEO: why they must integrate 18:05 – Market nuances: Japan vs. Germany 20:18 – The role of user research in international SEO success 22:02 – When to implement a Translation Management System (TMS) 25:33 – Real talk: the true cost of international SEO 28:18 – Mistakes to avoid: budget, ops, and lack of data 33:10 – Building the right international SEO team 35:06 – Communication tips for global collaboration 38:34 – How AI will transform international strategy and QA 42:26 – Will AI erase top-funnel SEO internationally? Show Links Chris Kelly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherakelly/ Subscribe today for weekly tips: https://bit.ly/3dBM61f Listen on iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/content-and-conversation-seo-tips-from-siege-media/id1289467174 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1kiaFGXO5UcT2qXVRuXjsM Listen on Google: https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS9jT3NjUkdLeA Follow Siege on Twitter: http://twitter.com/siegemedia Follow Ross on Twitter: http://twitter.com/rosshudgens Directed by Cara Brown: https://twitter.com/cararbrown Email Ross: ross@siegemedia.com #seo | #contentmarketing
