The Modern Bar Cart Podcast

This is a live recording of a seminar I presented at the Rum Summit about a month ago at the American Distilling Institute conference and trade show in Miami. The title of the presentation is S.C.U.B.A (Submerging Casks Under Bodies Aquatic) and it's my somewhat maximalist attempt to survey the wet, weird subject of underwater cask maturation in the spirits and (surprisingly) cocktail space. Our last interview with the gents from Reef Rum Supply obviously plays heavily into this topic, so if you haven't tuned into that, I'd recommend it, but there's also quite a bit of new info in this talk, as well. You can watch this whole presentation , including the slides and my smiling face up on stage, over on T he Modern Bar Cart YouTube channel . The video is already up, and I highly recommend subscribing to the channel if you're a YouTube kinda person. Also on the YouTube Channel, you can check out a 20-minute process video where I take a cask out to the ocean, submerge it in salt water, then conduct a salt cured rum experiment, which was a lot of fun. So, plenty of great reasons to join me on the video side of this podcast.

In this aquatic maturation deep-dive with Danny and Billy Dalla Polla, Eddie Odabachian, and Nick Carmer of Reef Rum Supply Co. , creators of the Seagroni, some of the topics we discuss include: The genesis story of the project, starting with the question: "what if there was sunken treasure in this reef?," and culminating in a fateful Negroni week experiment that changed everything. What happens to spirits and cocktails when they're barrel aged under water, as compared to the conditions and results you might expect from standard, terrestrial warehouse conditions. How consumers have been reacting to the Seagroni at tropical bars across the country and at a recent Bar Convent Brooklyn event, where bartenders tasted their first sample of an experimental spirit called "Sea Wray." We also discuss some of the "associative terroir" that comes from sinking barrels 30 feet into the ocean and what it feels like to be a body (or a barrel, for that matter) hugged by the ocean as currents wash through the aquatic barrel cellar. Along the way, we cover the specific flavors and textures that the Reef Rum Supply team are chasing as they experiment with each new barrel drop, advice for perfecting your cocktail game when paddling in a sea kayak, the scariest things the team have seen while diving on a full moon, and much, much more.

This time around, we explore the fascinating flavors of different Drambuie releases. If you haven't heard of it, it's a honey and whiskey liqueur made in Scotland, and if you have heard of it…well, you know that you can't make a Rusty Nail cocktail without it. In this episode, the bottles we taste through include: Today's Drambuie base expression A bottle from maybe 4 or 5 years ago…just to see if it's the same juice A vintage bottle from the '70s or '80s A 1980s-era Drambuie decanter special release Drambuie 15-year old (made, of course, with 15-year-old whiskey) And we wrap things up with the ready-to-serve Drambuie Hot Apple Toddy Watch this entire tasting on YouTube: https://youtu.be/LkJlnIWTEFs Thanks to David T. Smith for providing the wonderful rare and vintage Drambuie expressions we taste through in this episode. Thanks also to Eric Zandona, Joe Barber, and Erik Owens for joining in the fun and providing their expert palates and feedback.

In this Down Under conversation with James Young of Old Young's Distillery, some of the topics we discuss include: The influence and defining characteristics of the Australian cocktail scene, which differs starkly from what you might find when you travel to Europe and is responsible for such mixological gifts as Mr. Black Coffee liqueur and the butterfly pea coloring craze. How to plan your travel itinerary around tasting delicious spirits in every state in Australia, including whisky in Tasmania, Gin & Brandy in Western Australia, and rum up in Queensland and Kununurra. The growing interest in distilling brandy using Australian grapes and aging it in local casks. This leads us down a number of interesting rabbit holes concerning grape varietals, process and maturation requirements, and even the importance of Australian dessert and fortified wines. Through this entire conversation, you'll be able to trace an underlying thread of quality, which seems to be a cultural hallmark that unifies the diverse flavors and landscapes that you encounter in the agriculture, spirits, and cocktails of Australia. Along the way, we muse on antipodean oddities like: why all white rum in Australia is technically cristallino, what the brandy distillers of the world could learn from Pisco, why you should be drinking gingin gin with Jim, and much, much more Chapters (00:00) Introduction (04:45) Australian Cocktail Trends (07:23) Distillery Destinations in Australia (13:47) The Rise of Australian Brandy (18:00) The Story of Gingin Gin (19:51) Standards of Identity through Production Rules (25:15) Australia as a Culture of Quality (27:59) Australian Brandy Grape Varietals (32:07) Conclusion

In part one of my two-part waltz through the flavors and landscapes of Australia with James Young of Old Young's Distillery , some of the topics we discuss include: The history and evolution of the Australian distilling industry, specifically with respect to the development of the Australian whisky scene and the rise of distinct gin and rum traditions. The impact of Australian agriculture and wine on the types of grains, casks, and other production choices that have come to define Australian whisky on the world stage. The flavor and culture phenomenon that is Australian gin, including the story behind Four Pillars' Bloody Shiraz and the proliferation of wine-flavored gins and a survey of unique endemic botanicals to look out for. Along the way, we also take time to consider the six seasons you'll experience in Perth, Australian brands and bottles to keep your eye out for on American liquor store shelves, the fine line between lemon myrtle use and abuse, and much, much more.

In part two of my exploration of flavor and memory with Dr. Kevin Peterson , some of the topics we discuss include: What the Big 5 personality index (also known as OCEAN) might be able to teach us about how guests think about factors like novelty and comfort in the cocktails they enjoy. The difference between the highest-rated drink (on average) on most Castalia menus, versus the highest-rated drinks for specific individuals. How people respond when asked to describe their ideal cocktail - including the aesthetics and memories they tended to focus on, and which qualities they most often left out of the description. We also explore a somewhat half-baked theory I propose about flavor as an "attractor," which is an explanatory concept taken from complex systems science that deals with nonlinear dynamics. Along the way, we muse on the complexities of serving baijiu cocktails in the midwest, what kinds of cocktail experiments Dr. Peterson would run if we were all guinea pigs in his flavor lab, the sublime transcendence of cauliflower and pomegranate marinated lamb, and much, much more. Please head over to sfumatofragrances.com to check out Cocktail Theory and pre-order his upcoming book, Data-Driven Drinks, and I hope you enjoy the thrilling conclusion of my latest interview with Dr. Kevin Peterson.

In this data-driven conversation with Dr. Kevin Peterson , some of the topics we discuss include: How winding down Castalia and Sfumato after a decade of service provided the impetus for this new project , and why Kevin has set out to address a very different set of questions than in his last book, Cocktail Theory. Why matching a person with their ideal drink is very different (and much more difficult, it turns out) from trying to make the optimal Old Fashioned or Negroni or Daiquiri. This leads to a conversation about all the variables that go into cocktail preference: sweetness, acidity, bitterness, booziness, effervescence, egg white, spiciness, and so much more - how does one begin to build such a high-dimensional beverage algorithm in pursuit of aesthetic pleasure? We also discuss some of the algorithmic tests that good bar programs and bartenders can implement in order to zero in on guest preferences more quickly. These include good menu writing, the classic bartender's choice speed interview, and the possibility for creating a guest profile with likes and dislikes. Along the way, we explore why spicy drinks are a trap, the sea change I experienced the first time I tasted Green Chartreuse, the idea of perceptual thresholds in cocktails and in life, and much, much more.

In this fascinating conversation with Max Well and Alex Lamb , directors of The Donn of Tiki , some of the topics we discuss include: How a COVID-era YouTube short on the history of Tiki in LA snowballed into a full-length feature film on one of the most iconic bar entrepreneurs of the 20th century: Ernest Gantt, AKA Donn Beach, AKA "Don the Beachcomber." The way that stop-motion puppetry and clever era-appropriate animations were used to give Donn an embodied presence in his own story, with audio unearthed from a single set of tapes uncovered at the University of Hawaii. The interesting ironies that run through Donn's life, including his propensity to build big and lose everything and the very different love interests who came and went, changing his trajectory and altering the arc of tropical drinks history in the process. We also explore the two seemingly opposed natures operating at the same time in Donn Beach: his unwavering pursuit of authenticity and quality, on the one hand, which was often masked by his flair for showmanship and his trickster-like talent for tall tales and misdirection. Along the way, we revel in Donn's ability to create freak evening thunderstorms with a hose atop his LA speakeasy, speculate about how he might feel about super juice, and even take the time to appreciate his unexpected role in the revival of authentic Hawaiian culture in the 20th century. When this episode airs, Alex and Max will still be touring and doing screenings around the country, so head over to TheDonnOfTiki.com to check out their schedule, and be sure to keep your eyes peeled for when this film hits your favorite streaming services in the near future.

Eric kicks off 2026 with an audio essay rant targeted at the ham-fisted "percentage" math that people use to answer the question: "How much of a whiskey's flavor comes from the barrel?" In the censored words of George Carlin: "It's all BS, and it's bad for ya." To demonstrate this, we sift through GC-MS whiskey sample results, human neurobiology, and behavioral economics. In the end, it's a poorly posed question invented to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and it colors our expectations about flavor in harmful ways.

This time around, we'll be taking a look at drinking rituals from around the world. A few months back, my friend Reece Sims asked me to write an article about drinking rituals for her new publication, The Flavour Report . She has graciously agreed to let me read the article on-air and give you all a bit of a "Director's Cut" version of the article, entitled: Sacred Serves: The Rituals That Make Drinking Human . For those of you who have the opportunity to enjoy a few drinks with family and friends this holiday season, I hope some of these thoughts about the importance of ritual, hospitality, gratitude, and the sometimes radical act of coming together can help you to appreciate some of those moments even more. Please remember, as always, to drink responsibly and experiment boldly. Additional Resource: Video of Queimada Ritual (WARNING: DO NOT ATTEMPT AT HOME)

Eric interviews Toby Maloney ( @tobycocktail ) about his award-winning book, The Bartender's Manifesto . Some of the topics covered in this conversation include: How Toby thinks about cocktail development, including the importance of inspiration, intention, comfort, and curiosity The importance of curated attention in the creative process, allowing you to notice aspects of the world around you that can be used as inspiration and structural components for cocktail building A live cocktail development case study, where Toby and Eric riff on a menu prompt and create their very own custom cocktail worthy of inclusion on a seasonal menu. Along the way, they explore the Fall-friendly flavors of pisco and tequila, the strange betrayal of curried potatoes, the speculative physics of anti-gravity cocktails, and much, much more.

In this modern classic conversation with bartender and beverage consultant Toby Maloney , some of the topics we discuss include: Toby's journey through the food and beverage world, from bussing and dishwashing, to culinary school, to tending bar, eventually landing gigs at famous venues like Milk & Honey, and Pegu Club, and going on to open The Violet Hour in Chicago. The decisions and philosophies (plus the techniques and ingredients) that allowed Toby and his cohort at The Violet Hour to open the hearts and minds of the people of Chicago to the paradigm shift that was the Cocktail Renaissance. What it's like to open a bar in 2025, specifically with respect to the ingredients and philosophies that carry over well from the last 15-20 years, and which practices and vibes might need a refresh. Then, we take a close look at how Toby is setting the tone at The Elbow Room with pre-batched "Flavor Booms," free pours, dirty dumps, a Hawthorne strainer moratorium, and other service speed innovations. Along the way, we learn why people hated The Violet Hour Team at first, how to "David-Chang-ify" a food or beverage program, why Gen Z is primed for their "Fern Bar" moment, and much, much more. If you like this conversation with Toby, well buckle up for part 2, where we dig even deeper into how he develops cocktails, complete with a live, on-air cocktail building exercise. But for now, please enjoy part 1 of this super fun interview with Toby Maloney.

In this smokey, robust conversation with cigar and whiskey expert Maggie Kimberl ( @lougirl502 ), some of the topics we discuss include: A working definition of "cigar blend whiskey," plus some specific thoughts on the ideal proof point for these types of blends. The two primary pairing strategies that you can use to pair any two items in the flavor world, whether you're talking about wine and food, whiskey and cigars, or even building the perfect charcuterie bite. How to think about "flexibility" in the whiskey and cigar pairing space. Essentially: is a given whiskey designed to pair with a wide range of cigars, or has a blender designed it to pair with one cigar in particular? Then, we look at cigars. We talk about how a cigar is going to change as you smoke it, how to think about size metrics like shape and ring gauge relative to other factors like robustness and country of origin, and the best way to leverage online reviews and your local tobacconist to help you navigate the scene. We wrap up by talking about some of the more recent trends and collaborations in the whiskey and cigar world, exploring certain ways in which cigar blends and pairing collaborations are getting better, and even more complex at the same time. Along the way, we cover what your breakfast beverage of choice says about your taste in cigars, which $25 bottle of whiskey Maggie ended up pairing with a $1000 cigar, the results of her 7-month Manhattan study, and much, much more.

In this smooth-sailing conversation with Malcolm Gosling Jr., 8th generation steward of the Goslings Rum company, some of the topics we discuss include: How a lapsed ship charter to Virginia kicked off the Gosling family's spirited enterprise on the humble 21 square mile rock in the middle of the Atlantic known as Bermuda. The ways in which Goslings rum both conforms to and expands what most rum nerds think of when they hear the term "British-style Caribbean rum," and why the family's roots in sourcing, blending, and retail are key to the entire flavor profile and identity. We also dig into two key brand stories: the origins of the "Black Seal Rum" name and logo, which involves upcycling Champagne Bottles used by the British navy, and of course the legend of how one poor bartender's failure to politely cut off a drunk guy is responsible for the Dark 'N Stormy cocktail. And we wrap up by covering some of Goslings Rum's longer-aged and special edition products that will pique the interest of any rum enthusiast, including their "Spirited Seas" project that's aged aboard the Oleander cargo ship. Along the way, we discover why pigs gave Bermuda a scary reputation back in the day, explore some of the creative activations Malcolm and his team are pursuing as "The Official Rum of Leisure," take a spin in crazy aunt Shiela's industrial rum swizzle machine, and much, much more. SPECIAL RESOURCE: Webinar Link: Signature Serves: Building Simple, Viral, Brand-Driven Cocktails

View the video of this seminar: here! What's shakin' drinks fans? Thanks for joining me for this special industry shop talk episode, where I give you a free, behind-the-scenes look at some of the content I produce specifically for people who work in the spirits and cocktail industry. This time around, you'll get to sit in on a seminar I presented a few weeks ago at the 2025 American Distilling Institute Conference & Trade show in San Antonio, TX. The title of the seminar is: " You've Been Served: On Premise Strategies for a Saturated Market ," and it presents a bunch of different looks at things distillers and spirits brands can be doing to create successful partnerships with bars and restaurants.

In this true, blue interview with Lucas Bols Co. Master Distiller Monique ten Kortenaar ( @distillermo ), some of the topics we discuss include: The history of the Curaçao liqueur category, how it differs in production and flavor to similar products like Triple Sec, and how the color blue first entered the picture about 100 years ago. How Bols Blue 1575 separates itself from non-premium Blue Curaçaos by incorporating signature botanicals and fruity Jamaican rum into its production and blending process. The role that bartenders, sensory panels, and distillery guests played in the development of this and other products that Bols brings to market. We also take the time to have a very open conversation about the nature of "additives" in the spirits world. Given the striking hue and excellent stability of the Blue 1575, it should be no surprise that Bols uses a food grade dye. But there's a lot that goes into the R&D and testing process for such an important component of the product, especially in the EU, where food standards are notoriously stringent. Along the way, we plan out an epic day-long food and culture tour to experience the best and most interesting cuisine and drink that Amsterdam has to offer, learn why Monique's perfumer Grandfather was known as "The White Giant," reveal which Bols product is criminally underappreciated by bartenders and consumers, and much, much more.

In part two of my conversation with rum trailblazer Maggie Campbell , CEO of American Cane , some of the topics we discuss include: The project of American Cane, and why Maggie is excited to kick off the brand with an affordable rum offering that's focused on conviviality, celebration, and togetherness. How the American rum category differs in its identity from the many Caribbean traditions we are familiar with, and what factors like fermentation substrate, diurnal temperature shift, and cooperage sourcing have to do with it. Why America isn't as primed or well suited for a strict geographic indication as other places in the world And what it's been like for Maggie to move gradually away from the production side of rum and more into the strategy and business development side of the work in her role as CEO. Along the way, we provide a functional definition of the Trinidadian verb "liming," explore what spirits brands can learn from Formula One motorsports strategy, learn why it's important to never distill while you're angry, And much, much more

In this spirited conversation with Maggie Campbell , CEO of American Cane , some of the topics we discuss include: Maggie's road to rum, which winds through philosophy, spice shops, wineries, and legendary brandy houses before arriving at her break-out role as distiller (and later President) at Privateer Rum Why sales and distribution are the hardest part of the spirits industry and how her experience working in the sales trenches and partnering with distributors paved the way for a great adventure working as a project leader for Mt. Gay Rum in Barbados We touch on the functional aesthetics of both vineyards and cane fields - the ways in which soil health, drainage, and cane-specific indicators like, lodging, arrowing, and low MOC factors can contribute to a healthy and beautiful cane growing operation And we also discuss how to think about terroir in spirits - specifically how it's derived not only from landscapes and climate conditions, but also from the perspectives taken and decisions made in these diverse locales over long periods of time. Along the way, we muse on why you can't hide anything in a rum distillation, the multinomial nature of cane dogs, why only foreigners like the monkeys in Barbados, and much, much more.

Eric tastes through several rare and vintage Benedictine Liqueur expressions, alongside friends and colleagues from the spirits industry at the 2025 American Distilling Institute International Spirits Competition. In this recording, he's joined by: Mr. David T. Smith (who generously provided the Benedictine samples from his personal collection) and who is the head steward at the ADI competition Joe Barber from Stargazy Spirits (who, for the first time, had a functional microphone for one of these recordings) Author and Spirits expert Eric Zandona, who runs the International Spirits Competition Reece Sims, founder of Flavor Camp, representing Canada Aaron Knoll, creator of The Gin is In, my favorite gin review website Sara Sargent of Alpine Distilling, one of the award-winning-est distillers I know And Vanessa Piromallo, the 2024 World Drinks Awards Icons of Gin Communicator of the Year The Benedictine expressions we taste through in this sitting are: Your standard, straight-up, run-of-the-mill, but still ICONIC Benedictine Vintage Benedictine (likely from the 60s or 70s) Benedictine and Brandy (AKA B&B) Benedictine 1888 (a special, premium Blend) Benedictine Single Cask

In Part 2 of my high-flying conversation with Charles Joly , some of the topics we discuss include: The 2014 Diageo World Class win that elevated Charles to global bartending celebrity, and the story of the innovative cocktail that put him in the winner's circle. The importance of timing in cocktail builds and presentation and how effective manipulation of timing can play on a guest's anticipation, which Charles refers to as a "6th sense." The genesis of Crafthouse Cocktails , a ready-to-drink cocktail brand that has its roots way back in 2013, at time when most people viewed the RTD category as either a non-sequiter or a complete heresy. We cover what the very early RTD landscape looked like, how Charles and his team went about designing canned beverage that actually taste like a real cocktail, the decision to partner with leading spirits brands, and even Crafthouse's recent placement on United Airlines. We wrap the conversation by discussing some of Charles' other favorite projects, like Cayman Cookout with chef Eric Ripert, his own line of custom barware, and even his online vintage store side hustle. Along the way, we cover Charles' most important tips for succeeding in a cocktail competition, why Crafthouse opted for a Paloma over a Margarita in their RTD portfolio, a maximalist itinerary for a full day of eating and drinking your way through Chicago's culinary gems, and much, much more.