And The Writer Is...with Ross Golan

Today's guest is an artist and songwriter whose career has taken him from teenage YouTube covers to working with Beyoncé, Tyler, The Creator, Brockhampton, Miley Cyrus and Jack Antonoff. But this conversation is really about something bigger: How to build a career in music without losing yourself along the way. Ryan talks about learning to trust his own taste, being grateful he never had a hit record, protecting what makes an artist special, and refusing to let success, algorithms or other people's expectations define him. We also get into Boy in Jeans, Brockhampton, Tyler the Creator's unexpected DM, writing four songs on Cowboy Carter, the making of "Bruises Off the Peach," and his new album Sweet Fortune. And The Writer Is... Ryan Beatty! Subscribe for more conversations with the artists, songwriters and producers shaping music. Follow us: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors: NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association Splice — the best sample library on the market. Period. Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:36 The Greek, Hollywood Bowl & Pokémon evolutions 3:08 Being made fun of for singing 4:09 “I refuse to continue just being one thing” 8:32 Why being hard to define is freedom 9:52 How Ryan approaches a songwriting session 11:52 Teach people how to treat you 13:43 “I’m grateful I’ve never had a hit record” 14:12 What success feels like vs. what it looks like 20:08 “I didn’t feel smart enough to be a songwriter” 20:55 Boy in Jeans — finding his voice as a songwriter 26:42 Jack Antonoff and an unexpected Broadway placement 27:30 NMPA + Splice 29:19 His advice for artists going viral 31:55 The moment he decided to do it his way 34:06 Brockhampton, Kevin Abstract & finding confidence 37:05 Why Ryan never pitches songs 40:43 Tyler, The Creator’s unexpected DM 42:35 Dreaming of David , touring & burnout 44:52 Making “Bruises Off the Peach” 48:17 Finding his actual singing voice 50:30 Cowboy Carter — four songs, told nobody 54:30 Making Sweet Fortune & chasing timelessness 57:32 How he wants listeners to see themselves in his songs 59:36 Amy Allen, Clairo & making the studio a place of joy 1:04:25 “Doing this is scary for me” Credits Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Edited by Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is the drummer who took punk out of the garage, put it on your radio, then on MTV, then on your body. But his real story isn't the discography. It's what he did with everything that was supposed to end him. From a four-piece kit in Fontana to the center of the album cover, Travis carries three things simultaneously that most musicians never figure out how to hold at once: the craft of writing a drum part as a hook — singing it in his head before his hands ever get there; the conviction that no genre gets to own him, and no one else gets to write his ending; and the contrarian edge to ban Auto-Tune, editing, and drum samples from his own studio at the exact moment the rest of the industry is sprinting toward machine-clean. And The Writer Is... Travis Barker! Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Join us on Patreon: patreon.com/andthewriteris We're giving away 4 pieces of premium recording gear on zoom on August 25th! Join Patreon for details. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us. And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period. CHAPTERS 0:00 Intro 1:51 Why the documentary sat for nine years 3:18 The producers pitch an ending: "Can you just walk onto a plane?" 4:51 Survivor's guilt: "They wouldn't want me to sit here and not fly again" 6:33 "The doc was dead to me" — and living your life like it's a movie 9:41 "I don't make beats." "Now you do. I need it in two days." 12:23 Beastie Boys, Bad Brains, Buck Owens — refusing the box 15:28 The drums are a hook, not a timekeeper 15:54 "That's not music" — the teacher who wouldn't teach him rock 17:25 How he actually writes a part: "I sing it in my head" 18:21 Learning the whole blink-182 set in an hour 21:29 Trash men in Laguna, and one store that sold their tape 22:52 The untitled album, and the day the process changed 25:57 The lyrics he wrote: "We'll have Halloween on Christmas" 27:15 "I Miss You" — the loop he had to convince them to keep 28:07 "You have to put your ego away to be a drummer who's a songwriter" 35:46 The burn center: "How am I going to play drums?" 36:25 The hand he couldn't feel, and why he told no one 43:20 "Too heavy for blink" — Boxcar Racer, and Mark 56:30 "There was no therapy for what happened" 1:10:19 What drummers should actually practice 1:19:29 AI: "I hate it" — no Auto-Tune, no editing, no samples 1:31:20 "All the Small Things" — the day Tom told him to open the valve 1:33:33 "Where's all the hits?" — the note that made Rock Show and First Date 1:35:15 "One More Time": writing about your own band breaking up Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is an artist most people meet through the bit: the deadpan internet, the cowboy suit, the one-sided war he's been waging with Harry Styles for a year that Harry Styles knows nothing about. So this is the other version of him. A kid in Pittsburgh with a borrowed mic and beats ripped off YouTube, broke and failing out of school, who gets a message that Mac Miller loves a song off his first EP — and uses those three days in LA to convince his parents to let him drop out. It's also one of the more honest conversations we've had about what the industry's upgrades actually cost you. Not the version where getting signed is the happy ending — the version where the nice studio, the engineer recording your vocals, and the A&R in your ear slowly make music that isn't yours. Chuck Timely & The Hourglass is what's on the other side of that: a record about time, made by someone who spent years trying to get his own back. And the only person who ever told him not to make it was his mother. And The Writer Is... Role Model! A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us. And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period. They are also maybe the only ethical ai-integrated sample library and they pay creators for using their work in the new Variations update and beyond. Chapters 0:00 Intro 2:00 The year-long war with Harry Styles that Harry Styles knows nothing about 2:41 Mac Miller and Odd Future on Vine are why he finally said yes to TikTok 3:33 The message about "Stolen Car" that came while he was failing out of school 15:01 "Did you scrub the internet?" — "Yes. Because I was embarrassed." 16:13 "I was trying to impress a label. I just made shitty music." 24:16 A 16-year-old in Portland, Maine, and an EP made entirely over email 25:44 The labels start calling: "I was a sitting duck" 27:01 The studio trap — how nice rooms take the music out of your hands 28:01 The two EPs he's blocked out: "I don't remember making that music" 28:54 Why he won't pitch songs to other artists 31:06 The 80s synth album they made for two months and scrapped 34:33 The two rules: no synths, no drum machines 35:06 His mom: "There's country in it? Your fans are gonna hate that." 37:39 "Sally," written in the 30 minutes a session ran short 42:09 "But who is Chuck?" — inventing Chuck Timely 47:12 Ross defines a good song: "This will piss off a lot of people" 53:10 What he'd say to Mac Miller 54:44 "Look at That Woman" started as a joke — and why the loose ones win 56:27 The permission Kansas Anymore gave other songwriters Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest wrote "The Climb." She also wrote "I Drive Your Truck," "Mine Would Be You," "Don't Think Jesus," and "Ain't No Love in Oklahoma." But her real story isn't the hits. It's the ten years before the first one, the five years after it when the phone stopped ringing, and what she figured out in between about how to actually last in this business. From a dropped record deal and years as what she calls a washed-up artist nobody would write with, to Song of the Year, a Grammy nomination, and a run of hits she wrote while raising three kids under three. She carries three things at once that almost no writer figures out how to hold together: a working method she can actually teach, a conviction that this is a calling and not a job, and a refusal to write the safe version of anything. And The Writer Is... Jessi Alexander! Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us. 0:00 Intro 0:48 Her favorite non-songwriting songwriter trick 1:54 "How do you make unavailable country men emotional?" 5:33 The five songs on her Hall of Fame plaque 11:07 Pool halls and stick shifts: "that color is what I draw from" 12:42 The artist deal that fizzled — "I wasn't the artist type" 13:31 No man's land: "no one took me seriously, I was a washed-up artist" 14:01 The insane story behind writing The Climb: "just another damn day" 20:11 Bud Light, a guitar pull, and a British director 22:07 Being told The Climb would change her life "Sir, that doesnt happen to people like me" 28:08 Nashville still said No 30:38 Getting men to sing: long notes and the falsetto flip 31:44 "What part of their tool belt have they not used?" 34:32 The professor who told her to quit school 36:18 Her album, the mergers, and Redneck Woman 40:27 New mom: "they'll just put someone else in my spot" 45:30 Good mom or good at work — never both 46:16 2015 to 2020: "the water just turned off" 48:23 Advice for the writer whose phone stopped ringing 50:24 The song that rang every bell 57:21 Concept-first or melody-first: "I'm the director" 61:16 Songwriters own it. Screenwriters sell it. 64:16 Imposter syndrome and the Billy Strings answer 65:24 What makes Morgan Wallen great 69:46 "I don't like to not know where all the bodies are buried" 71:43 I Drive Your Truck (Crazy story) 74:37 Her granddad's truck in the driveway 75:44 "Call in the third. Call in the fourth. Call in the 10th." 76:46 No #1 party until they found him 80:36 The truck-song traffic jam they were worried sick about 85:38 "Keep your head down." Still the only answer. Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Today's guest is a songwriter four albums deep, with a song that's been picking up new listeners for nine years and Mick Fleetwood playing on her latest record. But her real story isn't any of that. From weekend stage camps in West London to opening Wembley for Taylor Swift five months after giving birth, she spent a decade releasing roughly one song a year into near silence. What kept her going wasn't a plan — it was a pair of collaborators who got nothing back for years and got up and made something every day anyway. This is an honest conversation about what a long stretch of nobody listening actually feels like, and what happens when the proof finally shows up on a timeline you didn't choose. And The Writer Is... Suki Waterhouse! Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us. And @splice — the best sample library on the market. Period. They've developed a Sounds plugin that allows creators to actually get paid for derivatively generated work from their art, and they have paid out $100M+ to artists already since inception. Chapters: 0:00 Intro 0:46 How's being a parent and doing music? 1:18 "Being a parent is only hard for good parents" 2:49 "The girl with the guitar" — how her daughter describes her job 4:30 Test-driving album demos on a toddler in her "no" phase 12:44 Somewhere Over the Rainbow — and losing to the girl who sang All Saints 14:38 The voice teacher who told her she was too skinny to sing 15:58 "I was angry. I had this huge fire in me." 16:42 The friend group that turned on her: "fuck this school, fuck these people" 26:45 "You walk through open doors" — model, actor, musician 28:56 "Brutally," 2016, and ten years of making things nobody heard 31:01 Advice to a young female artist: learn to produce, even basically 32:56 "I went hunting for my fucking tribe. And I found them." 35:54 Amy Winehouse at the pub, The Libertines, and a London scene that's gone 38:12 Backstage at a Jake Bugg show — meeting Natalie and Jules at eighteen 39:23 "They got zero back for years and years and years" 42:45 Extreme ADHD, a giant sitar, and a fight over a song 46:26 December 7th: flying to London for a song that didn't exist yet 47:16 The pact: "if we're not writing something brilliant, we're not carrying it on" 47:28 The worst audition of her life, in the dark 48:09 A Wurlitzer, a Mellotron, and the song that opens the album 1:01:39 "Good Looking" — top ten on TikTok, written nine years ago 1:05:53 Covid, Daisy Jones, and deciding to just make the record 1:06:32 Every label said no except Sub Pop 1:08:40 "It's nothing about what happens in the first week" 1:10:16 "Dangerous Woman" and a song that gains meaning over time 1:11:38 Daisy Jones: "my name wasn't on the list and I was fucking pissed" 1:16:24 "You're more envious of the check than the song" 1:26:14 What makes a good song — Beck, Elliott Smith, and roughness 1:29:26 Red Rocks with no ear monitors: "I was in insane debt" 1:32:04 Opening for Taylor Swift at Wembley 1:34:17 Hayley Williams: "this one's for Mr. Waterhouse" 1:37:02 A baby in March, a record in September 1:39:44 "When everyone goes a bit red — that's when you keep it in the song" 1:40:35 What to play driving at night, heartbroken, walking through London Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is one of the great voices of his generation — the theater kid who auditioned for American Idol with Michael Jackson, watched the judges' faces fall, and demanded a second song because he'd just quit his job and had no health insurance. But his real story isn't the voice. It's the game — the one Freddie Mercury wrote about, the one that picks your singles, writes your headlines, and decides who you are before you do. And The Writer Is... Adam Lambert! In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on: The AMA kiss that blew up a $500,000 single launch — "everyone was going, oh shit" Quitting Wicked — and losing his health insurance — to audition, then refusing the judges' no Why Kara DioGuardi 'busted his balls all season' What Brian May says "Play the Game" was really about Signed before the finale even aired: why losing Idol never mattered and much more. Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. 0:00 Intro 1:09 The album is out — why self-titled, "first name basis" 2:35 Meeting Pete Nappi through a pandemic song still in the vault 3:39 "Am I Okay" — written one week after the breakup 6:02 Singles made him "crazy" — the label picks that flopped: "I told you so" 7:04 Leaning into what fans expect vs. challenging them 8:16 Proud of the flops, indifferent to some hits 9:34 Theater kids: every album is a character, every record a world 11:28 The dystopian cover — "I want it blasted into the future" 13:55 Adam Lambert or Freddie Mercury? "I feel like it's me" 15:35 Coffee with Freddie — what Brian says "Play the Game" was really about 16:56 "The music industry is a big old game, isn't it?" 17:43 A college-DJ dad, a Sly Stone mom, and a kid screaming through the house 19:46 The Fiddler note where everybody went "oh, wow" 21:03 San Diego to LA at 19 — math knocked him off the college path 23:00 Weed, poetry, and GarageBand 25:49 Wicked: six months, burnt out, and a new plan 29:20 Inside the Idol machine — two camps, two agendas 32:49 The Burning Man epiphany that vanquished the fear 34:39 No job, no insurance, and judges who didn't get Rock With You 35:11 "I didn't really ask" — the second song that changed everything 36:22 Why Idol can't break artists anymore 38:04 Honey water: the whiskey story behind Kara DioGuardi's grudge 41:21 Justin Timberlake tells him to remake A Night at the Opera 42:06 Losing the finale — already signed before it aired 47:20 The blog photos drop: "Yeah, that's me. Get over it." 51:53 The AMA kiss and the $500,000 single 53:22 What Do You Want From Me — the P!nk demo 56:00 Singing uncredited on Avicii's "Lay Me Down" 59:03 "It takes a village — bring them with you" 60:26 Max Martin: "When you get on stage, I don't have to worry" 61:26 How Queen actually made the call 62:07 Trespassing hits #1 — a first he didn't know he'd made 62:48 The poster-child years: "the headline is that I'm gay, and no one's talking about the music" 66:11 Trespassing, the "bipolar album" — his half vs. the label's half 67:20 Two months with the Wolf Cousins — why his songs didn't make the cut 70:05 The Ghost Town gamble — "you've got to do something drastic" 72:44 Songs with no home — "throwing my ideas into space" 76:03 Velvet dies to Covid, two weeks in 76:52 A Telefunken, YouTube tutorials, and teaching himself Logic 77:51 The secret musical: 20 songs written over Zoom 82:45 Identity vs. brand — "the personality precedes the skill" 83:35 Songwriters don't get paid for their time — the union conversation 87:37 Giving his co-writers master points — "it's just classy, man" 88:28 Where the stage presence actually comes from 90:13 The hardest part of fame 93:06 "I nitpick the negative" — showing the uglier side for the first time 96:28 Is Ozempic killing LA nightlife? Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Edited by Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's episode is a rewind to our conversation with Benny Blanco. To hear the rest of this episode, join our Patreon, where you'll find our full library of archived episodes with legends like Babyface, Shania Twain, Sabrina Carpenter, Benny Blanco, and many more. Members also get access to our monthly Writers Room on Zoom, where we play your demos and answer your biggest industry questions. We hope to see you there. Thank you for listening to And The Writer Is. And The Writer Is... is presented by the National Music Publishers' Association Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is the frontman of Bush, one of the defining voices of '90s alternative rock and the "feral," self-flagellating songwriter underneath them, who still claws through every blank page 30 years in and can't tell you how he does it. From a broken home at 12 to painting dentists' offices after he'd already made 16 Stone, Gavin carries three things simultaneously that most rock legends never figure out how to hold at once: the craft of a lifelong student who still writes out scales to get better, the conviction to bet on analog human perspective in the age of AI, and the contrarian refusal to romanticize any of it — "it's a perpetual UFC octagon." This is one of the more honest conversations about longevity, survival, and what it actually costs to keep creating after the era that made you has moved on — and buried some of the people who defined it. When the confidence and the insecurity are the same engine, who do you become? And The Writer Is... Gavin Rossdale! Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsors for making these conversations possible. Our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers' Association. Your support means the world to us. Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London and Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is Brittany Howard — four-time Grammy winner, the voice of Alabama Shakes, and one of the most singular artists of her generation. But her real story isn't the accolades or the sold-out rooms. It's a single-wide trailer, a junkyard full of animals, and a garbage truck — and a woman who never once chased any of it. From a Cotton Patch trailer park to Paisley Park, Brittany built a career by refusing to do it the way you're supposed to. She carries three things simultaneously that most artists never figure out how to hold at once: an obsessive craftsman's ear (she'll stab an amp with a screwdriver to find a tone), an unbudging authenticity (she showed up to the deal that changed her life hungover, in her pajamas, in a mail truck), and a total indifference to the machine (0% involvement in her own charts, streams, and licensing). This is one of the more honest conversations we've had about staying true to yourself in music. And The Writer Is... Alabama Shakes! Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers Association. Your support means the world to us. Timestamps 0:00 Intro 2:09 Is hunting for tone a fool's errand? 4:02 "Happy accidents" — taste vs. preference 6:22 Stabbing an amp with a screwdriver for the perfect tone 9:02 Born in a single-wide in Cotton Patch trailer park 10:53 "Are we rich now?" — a junkyard, 96 cats, 26 dogs 12:53 Picking up guitar out of necessity (she wanted to play bass) 17:00 Recording songs at 12 on Audacity, alone in the woods 18:45 The At the Drive-In shirt — meeting Zach 19:33 Mom: "I didn't know you could sing" / "Me either" 20:46 Her first song ever 28:59 The label meeting: hungover, in pajamas, in a mail truck 32:22 Writing "Hold On" in a garbage truck 33:27 Making up the whole song live on stage at The Brick 37:06 How a record deal did (and didn't) change how she lived 44:01 "Do I have any money?" — buying her first house 46:07 Meeting Shawn Everett & Blake Mills for Sound & Color 52:51 Talking to Prince on the phone — and his list of rules 54:17 Playing "Gimme All Your Love" with Prince — "did he change his mind?" 56:49 How Alabama Shakes came back together 59:15 Rapid fire + "Leave music to the people who love music" Credits Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Edited by Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest is one of the most recognizable faces of her generation — an actor whose voice you'd know in a single frame. But her real story isn't the one you've watched. It's the one she kept secret: for 20 years she's been a songwriter, and barely anyone — even people who know her — knew it. This is one of the more honest conversations we've had about being underestimated — as an actor who "couldn't" really be a musician, and as a woman the industry assumed didn't write her own songs — and about what it costs to keep making things purely because you love them. And The Writer Is... Zooey Deschanel of She & Him! In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on: Why she erased social media off her own devices The "industry plant" myth — why the industry "can't make anything happen" anymore Being told "you'll never make a record, no one will take you seriously" as an actor Her "secret agent" identity The misogyny she goes to bat against Her North Star she chases And much more... Hit subscribe and turn on notifications. Every week, we go deep with the most interesting creatives in music. Join our Patreon for special access, bonus conversations, demo playing opportunities, and guest hangs! patreon.com/andthewriteris Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our lead sponsor NMPA for making these conversations possible. NMPA is the National Music Publishers' Association. They fight for songwriters and they fight for this podcast, too. Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 Meet Zooey Deschanel 1:51 Writing alone — and erasing social media to do it 4:49 Why the "industry plant" is a myth 6:37 "You'll never be taken seriously as a musician" 7:25 Her secret identity as a songwriter 11:15 How She & Him released with no name attached 13:01 "I Thought I Saw Your Face Today" — never a single, now #1 on TikTok 15:35 The story behind writing "I Thought I Saw Your Face Today" 17:24 Her dad, the records, and growing up musical 22:44 Brian Wilson, Gershwin, and the Great American Songbook 26:13 Five desert island albums 28:21 Why "A Hard Day's Night" beats the White Album 30:16 Teaching herself piano at six 32:46 Writing her first song at ten 38:42 "I identify as a songwriter, not an actor" 42:15 Dropping out of Northwestern 45:59 A word from our lead sponsor, NMPA 49:23 Finding her voice in the studio — the mic chain 51:56 Recording with Brian Wilson & the gifted mic 55:57 Why she never sold out — turning in finished records 67:03 The lonely sets where her first two records were written 69:35 Almost Famous & Cameron Crowe 72:50 "I'm allergic to selling myself" 76:19 Nobody believes a woman writes her own songs 79:00 Writing for other artists & how publishing splits really work 82:07 Why she loves writing Christmas songs 84:24 500 Days of Summer & music in film 88:36 The songwriting trick: "What if I am her?" 93:21 Dyslexia, reading scripts & why melody sticks 94:56 Why she doesn't do more theater 98:38 Staying clean through party-era Hollywood 100:50 M. Ward — 20 years, never one fight 109:57 Writing alone when everyone's afraid to 111:43 The biggest misconception about her 114:18 Finding your North Star Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Edited by Jad Saad Watch on Spotify. If you're subscribed to Spotify Premium, you don't get any Spotify ads on our show. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Today's guest built an audience of millions before she was old enough to sign a record deal, turned a 30-minute crying freestyle into her debut single, and made one of Gen Z's defining breakup anthems out of a phrase that became its own internet language. But her real story isn't the viral fame or the streams. It's the part that plays like a runaway and teaches like a masterclass: how she left home at 17 to chase music, what it costs to become a person in public, and everything about the business nobody explains until you've already survived it. And The Writer Is... Nessa Barrett! In this episode of And The Writer Is, we go deep on: • Why she ran away from home at 17 — a 4AM ticket, six school bags, cops on her trail — to make music • The truth about "i hope ur miserable until ur dead": she didn't write it, it's not her favorite, and why she sang it anyway • "pain" — the 30-minute freestyle she cried through in the booth that became her first single • Why she can't record with Auto-Tune — and what she learned the first time someone handed her a finished song to cut • Signing to Warner Records on Zoom during Covid — and the messy contract she had to escape first • "All of my confidence comes from my fans" — the performer who still gets embarrassed easily • The childhood trauma and the generational cycle she says she's trying to break • Why she closes her eyes every time she records, and writes a song like she's building a movie • The lowest point of her career — and how prayer, faith, and going back to her core brought her out of it • "I've never loved my music as much as this — and I didn't know it could feel this way" And much more... 🔓 Want in the room? We just launched our Patreon — monthly Zoom hangs where we listen to your demos and give feedback, hang with you directly, occasional guest drop-ins, and the full archive of 200+ audio episodes (Sabrina Carpenter, Lin-Manuel Miranda, Shania Twain, Babyface, and more). https://www.patreon.com/andthewriteris Watch on Spotify. Spotify subscribers get fewer ads on my video. Follow us on socials: @andthewriteris A special thank you to our lead sponsor, NMPA — the National Music Publishers Association. Your support means the world to us. Chapters 0:00 Intro — her whole journey has been public 1:37 The cafeteria TikTok that blew up 2:48 A childhood with no stability 3:45 "A lot of trauma — that's what drove me here" 4:20 Why she chose to be open about her struggles 6:50 Music as her safe place + her dad's makeshift studio 9:22 Her first recording, at four years old 10:56 Walking into a real LA studio, terrified 12:21 Songwriting as a diary 14:17 The tell-all she might publish under an alias 17:30 Join the conversation on Patreon 18:21 Stage fright, bullying, and the voice crack 20:34 "All my confidence comes from my fans" 23:44 From cafeteria TikToks toward LA 28:59 Running away at 4AM — the plane ticket story 32:54 Landing at the Sway House at 17 34:54 First sessions, jxdn, and singing other people's songs 36:34 Why she can't record with Auto-Tune 38:07 NMPA: why publishers fight for songwriters 38:49 Learning to ask for what she wanted in the booth 42:24 "pain" — the 30-minute freestyle that became her first song 45:02 Signing to Warner Records on Zoom 50:19 The public breakup, and hearing old songs differently 51:32 "i hope ur miserable until ur dead" — singer vs. listener 54:07 The truth about who wrote her biggest song 55:50 Breaking away from the influencer label 59:06 Building a sonic world — writing like a movie 63:45 Why she closes her eyes every time she records 64:10 Five movies that shape her sound 65:12 Acting, directing, and what still scares her 68:16 The new era: falling back in love with music 70:18 Rapid fire 71:27 The lowest point — and how she came back 74:49 What younger Nessa would admire most 77:19 A message to her parents 78:55 "I've never loved my music as much as this" 79:31 TAPENOTES: Ross & Joe break down the episode Credits: Hosted by Ross Golan Produced by Joe London & Jad Saad Edited by Jad Saad Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And The Update Is…a weekly beat on the industry . Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.