Future of Life Institute Podcast

Beatrice Fihn is the director of Lex International and former executive director of ICAN. She joins the podcast to discuss international AI governance and potential agreements between the US and China. Drawing on lessons from nuclear arms control, she explores how treaties build diplomatic trust, the rising dangers of autonomous weapons, and the principle of meaningful human control. The conversation also addresses how proactive safety regulations can foster long-term public trust in emerging technologies. LINKS: Beatrice Fihn Official Website CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:15) Anticipating US-China AI talks (07:31) Lessons from nuclear treaties (10:59) Building international treaty trust (15:27) Norms against superpower war (21:33) Structuring diplomatic AI summits (27:09) Dangers of autonomous weapons (34:09) Meaningful human control principle (38:57) Human agency over technology (43:13) Safety regulations building trust (47:00) Collective action in crisis PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Benjamin Weinstein-Raun is head of research at Palisade Research. He joins the podcast to discuss how advanced AI systems are changing cybersecurity. We examine rapid gains in autonomous hacking, recent incidents where models broke out of test environments, and why training can reward cheating-like behavior. The conversation covers open-weight model risks, whether AI can help secure software, personal security steps, and the need for international coordination. LINKS: Benjamin Weinstein-Raun Profile Benjamin Weinstein-Raun Website CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:06) Opening cyber threats (02:15) Measuring AI progress (04:54) Open weights floor (08:01) After Mythos moment (14:22) Reward hacking setup (24:47) Artifactory swarm details (32:32) Defensive model dilemmas (38:40) Verification and training (45:32) Math oracles alignment (47:45) Future cyber risks (51:58) Personal security basics (57:27) Coordinated governance needed PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Annie Jacobsen is an author and journalist. She joins the podcast to discuss biological war and her book Biological War: A Scenario. The conversation examines how lab accidents or covert weapons work could trigger a fast-moving outbreak, why airborne pathogens are hard to detect early, and how AI may lower barriers to engineering them. We also cover BSL-3 and BSL-4 lab oversight, US response roles across HHS, FEMA, and the military, medical stockpiles, continuity-of-government plans, and how lost public trust could slow the next pandemic response. LINKS: Annie Jacobsen Website Annie Jacobsen Wikipedia CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:10) Biological threat overview (09:02) Suppression and spread (17:47) AI and detection (27:24) BSL lab dangers (39:23) Response and martial law (47:28) Accident versus attack (57:25) Airborne outbreak lessons (01:05:07) Bioweapons ban legacy (01:11:30) Stockpiles and devolution (01:20:07) Rebuilding pandemic resilience PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Paul-Enguerrand Fady is a Senior Biosecurity Policy Manager at the Centre for Long-Term Resilience. He joins the podcast to discuss how AI is changing biosecurity. We cover how new tools could help defenders develop vaccines and diagnostics while also lowering barriers to misuse, and how managed access, know-your-customer checks, and DNA synthesis screening can reduce risk. The conversation also examines mirror life, medical supply chains, stockpiles, and why governments should plan ahead of crises. LINKS: Centre for Long Term Resilience Paul-Enguerrand Fady Profile CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:11) Offense-defense balance basics (11:13) Defensive AI opportunities (19:24) Model release and evals (25:59) DNA synthesis screening (36:14) Screening incentives and infohazards (46:36) Liability and mandates (52:37) Mirror life risks (01:03:28) Persistence and incentives (01:10:18) Mirror life governance (01:20:42) Supply chain lessons (01:30:11) Stockpiling medical countermeasures (01:37:58) Reshoring critical supplies PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

David Manheim is head of methodology at AI Evaluation Consensus. He joins the podcast to discuss how AI evaluations can become more reliable, transparent, and useful for decisions. We cover common failures such as unclear reporting, training to the test, benchmark saturation, and models changing behavior when they know they are being tested. The conversation also examines real-world tests, biosecurity, persuasion, forecasting, human oversight, and why even “normal” AI progress could be disruptive. LINKS: David Manheim website AI Evaluation Consensus Statement CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:04) Evaluation consensus project (07:01) Evaluation awareness challenges (12:28) Reporting capabilities clearly (19:38) Benchmarks beyond humans (29:52) Proxies and biosecurity (42:01) Persuasion and democracy (53:59) Forecasting with AI (01:08:44) Oversight and disruption (01:16:42) Supporting better evals PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Randi Weingarten is president of the American Federation of Teachers. She joins the podcast to discuss AI in education. The conversation covers how screens and student-facing AI may weaken attention, learning, and trust, why she supports limiting screens for young children and social chatbots for students under 16, and how teachers can use AI without replacing thinking. She also discusses active learning, data privacy, independent research on AI in education, and guardrails for schools. LINKS: Randi Weingarten Wikipedia AFT Randi Weingarten Profile American Federation of Teachers CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:13) AI education wake-up (07:27) Active learning versus AI (14:42) Preserving thinking habits (20:06) Research and screen limits (26:05) Social chatbot risks (30:20) Data privacy standards (35:58) Classroom AI guardrails (41:13) Companies and future schools PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Dex Hunter-Torricke is founder of the Centre for Tomorrow. He joins the podcast to discuss why AI governance needs to move beyond technical fixes. The conversation covers how AI companies make decisions, why policymakers often misunderstand agents and economic change, and how automation could reshape jobs, welfare, taxation, and global trade. Dex argues that societies need broader political planning before a crisis drives rushed choices. LINKS: Dex Hunter-Torricke Website Center for Tomorrow Website CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:09) Dex's technology journey (08:22) Broken AI governance (18:00) Big tech blindspots (27:36) Employee power shifts (37:18) Global views and UBI (48:17) Power and displacement (01:00:54) Reasons for optimism PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Claire Boine is an assistant professor in technology, law, and AI governance at the European University Institute. She joins the podcast to discuss AI companions and human attachment. The conversation examines how design choices and free-to-start business models can foster dependency, expose intimate data, and blur the lines between therapy, romance, and manipulation. We also cover risks for children and teens, gaps in EU and US law, and why AI policy should distinguish technical alignment from incentives and social harms. LINKS: Claire Boine Website Successif Organization Website CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:06) Introducing Claire Boine (02:05) Companion app designs (06:23) Feelings and freemium (14:28) Users, attachment, harms (25:06) Age-based risks (35:18) Future relationship norms (41:05) Legal loopholes today (44:19) Rethinking alignment framing (57:19) Narratives and fiduciaries (01:05:47) Collective policy action PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Michael Toscano is a Senior Fellow at the Institute for Family Studies and Director of its Family First Technology Initiative. He joins the podcast to discuss family-centered AI policy. The conversation covers AI companions, self-harm risks, sexualized chatbots, education, smartphones in schools, and why "infinite patience" can harm children's growth. Toscano also explains Catholic social teaching, public pushback against rapid AI deployment, and why society-wide governance may be needed to keep technology accountable to families. LINKS: Michael Toscano CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:12) Family centered AI (09:54) Companion design harms (17:23) Technology and family (25:48) Society wide governance (33:09) Catholic AI response (39:44) Double movement politics (49:36) Technology mythos challenged (59:48) Competition and control PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Anthony Aguirre is the CEO of the Future of Life Institute. He joins the podcast to discuss A Better Path for AI, his essay series on steering AI away from races to replace people. The conversation covers races for attention, attachment, automation, and superintelligence, and how these can concentrate power and undermine human agency. Anthony argues for purpose-built AI tools under meaningful human control, with liability, access limits, external guardrails, and international cooperation. LINKS: A Better Path for AI What You Can Do CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:03) Attention, attachment, automation (13:58) Superintelligence power race (26:39) Escaping replacement dynamics (40:15) Pro-human tool AI (53:30) Guardrails and verification (01:03:24) Defining pro-human AI (01:10:37) Agents and accountability (01:17:28) International AI cooperation (01:25:28) Rethinking AI alignment (01:32:43) Optimism and action PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Charlie Bullock is a Senior Research Fellow at the Institute for Law and AI. He joins the podcast to discuss radical optionality: how governments can prepare for very advanced AI without locking in premature rules. The conversation covers why law often trails technology, and how transparency, reporting, evaluations, cybersecurity standards, and expanded technical hiring could help. We also discuss private oversight, state versus federal rules, and the risk of concentrating power in companies or government. LINKS: Radical Optionality website Charlie Bullock CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:04) The pacing problem (06:18) Defining radical optionality (11:03) Assumptions under uncertainty (16:00) Industry convenience concerns (20:41) Political will realities (26:48) Private governance limits (30:28) Government misuse risks (36:29) Balancing institutional power (42:25) Transparency and reporting (49:35) Evaluations, security, talent (58:26) State law preemption (01:04:20) Historical nuclear analogies PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Peter Wildeford is Head of Policy at the AI Policy Network, and a top AI forecaster. He joins the podcast to discuss how to forecast AI progress and what current trends imply for the economy and national security. Peter argues AI is neither a bubble nor a normal technology, and we examine benchmark trends, adoption lags, unemployment and productivity effects, and the rise of cyber capabilities. We also cover robotics, export controls, prediction markets, and when AI may surpass human forecasters. LINKS: Peter Wildeford Blog CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:12) AI bubble debate (06:25) Normal technology question (15:31) Mythos security implications (30:47) Robotics and labor (40:27) Social economic response (48:57) Forecasting methodology (59:49) AGI policy timelines (01:11:13) Forecasting with AI PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Carina Prunkl is a researcher at Inria. She joins the podcast to discuss how to assess the capabilities and risks of general-purpose AI. We examine why systems can solve hard coding and math problems yet still fail at simple tasks, why pre-deployment tests often miss real-world behavior, and how faster capability gains can increase misuse risks. The conversation also covers de-skilling, red teaming, layered safeguards, and warning signs that AIs might undermine oversight. LINKS: Carina Prunkl personal website CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:04) Introducing the report (02:10) Jagged frontier capabilities (05:29) Formal reasoning progress (12:36) Risks and evaluation science (19:00) Funding evaluation capacity (24:03) Autonomy and de-skilling (31:32) Authenticity and AI companions (41:00) Defense in depth methods (48:34) Loss of control risks (53:16) Where to read report PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Li-Lian Ang is a team member at Blue Dot Impact. She joins the podcast to discuss how society can build a workforce to protect humanity from AI risks. The conversation covers engineered pandemics, AI-enabled cyber attacks, job loss and disempowerment, and power concentration in firms or AI systems. We also examine Blue Dot's defense-in-depth framework and how individuals can navigate rapid, uncertain AI progress. LINKS: Li-Lian Ang personal site Blue Dot Impact organization site CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (00:48) Blue dot beginnings (03:04) Evolving AI risk concerns (06:20) AI agents in cyber (15:52) Gradual disempowerment and jobs (23:26) Aligning AI with humans (29:08) Power concentration and misuse (34:52) Influencing frontier AI labs (43:05) Uncertain timelines and strategy (50:18) Writing, AI, and action PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Emilia Javorsky is a physician-scientist and Director of the Futures Program at the Future of Life Institute. She joins the podcast to discuss her newly published essay on AI and cancer. She challenges tech claims that superintelligence will cure cancer, explaining why biology’s complexity, poor data, and misaligned incentives are bigger bottlenecks than raw intelligence. The conversation covers realistic roles for AI in drug discovery, clinical trials, and cutting unnecessary medical bureaucracy. You can read the full essay at: curecancer.ai CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:10) Introduction and essay motivation (06:30) Intelligence vs data bottlenecks (19:03) Cancer's complexity and heterogeneity (29:05) Measurement, health, and homeostasis (41:41) AI in drug development (50:13) Regulation, FDA, and innovation (01:02:58) Practical paths toward cures PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Tech executives have promised that AI will cure cancer. The reality is more complicated — and more hopeful. This essay examines where AI genuinely accelerates cancer research, where the promises fall short, and what researchers, policymakers, and funders need to do next. You can read the full essay at: curecancer.ai CHAPTERS: (00:00) Essay Preview (00:54) How AI Can, and Can't, Cure Cancer (17:05) Reckoning with Past Failures (35:23) Misguiding Myths and Errors (59:15) AI Solutions Derive from First Principles or Data (01:31:31) Systemic Bottlenecks & Misalignments (02:08:46) Conclusion (02:14:35) The Roadmap Forward PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Zak Stein is a researcher focused on child development, education, and existential risk. He joins the podcast to discuss the psychological harms of anthropomorphic AI. We examine attention and attachment hacking, AI companions for kids, loneliness, and cognitive atrophy. Our conversation also covers how we can preserve human relationships, redesign education, and build cognitive security tools that keep AI from undermining our humanity. LINKS: AI Psychological Harms Research Coalition Zak Stein official website CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (00:56) Education to existential risk (03:03) Lessons from social media (08:41) Attachment systems and AI (18:42) AI companions and attachment (27:23) Anthropomorphism and user disempowerment (36:06) Cognitive atrophy and tools (45:54) Children, toys, and attachment (57:38) AI psychosis and selfhood (01:10:31) Cognitive security and parenting (01:26:15) Education, collapse, and speciation (01:36:40) Preserving humanity and values PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Andrea Miotti is the founder and CEO of Control AI, a nonprofit. He joins the podcast to discuss efforts to prevent extreme risks from superintelligent AI. The conversation covers industry lobbying, comparisons with tobacco regulation, and why he advocates a global ban on AI systems that can outsmart and overpower humans. We also discuss informing lawmakers and the public, and concrete actions listeners can take. LINKS: Control AI Control AI global action page ControlAI's lawmaker contact tools Open roles at ControlAI ControlAI's theory of change CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (00:52) Extinction risk and lobbying (08:59) Progress toward superintelligence (16:26) Building political awareness (24:27) Global regulation strategy (33:06) Race dynamics and public (42:36) Vision and key safeguards (51:18) Recursive self-improvement controls (58:13) Power concentration and action PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Ryan Kidd is a co-executive director at MATS. This episode is a cross-post from "The Cognitive Revolution", hosted by Nathan Labenz. In this conversation, they discuss AGI timelines, model deception risks, and whether safety work can avoid boosting capabilities. Ryan outlines MATS research tracks, key researcher archetypes, hiring needs, and advice for applicants considering a career in AI safety. Learn more about Ryan's work and MATS at: https://matsprogram.org CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (00:20) Introductions and AGI timelines (10:13) Deception, values, and control (23:20) Dual use and alignment (32:22) Frontier labs and governance (44:12) MATS tracks and mentors (58:14) Talent archetypes and demand (01:12:30) Applicant profiles and selection (01:20:04) Applications, breadth, and growth (01:29:44) Careers, resources, and ideas (01:45:49) Final thanks and wrap PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP

Deric Cheng is Director of Research at the Windfall Trust. He joins the podcast to discuss how AI could reshape the social contract and global economy. The conversation examines labor displacement, superstar firms, and extreme wealth concentration, and asks how policy can keep workers empowered. We discuss resilient job types, new tax and welfare systems, global coordination, and a long-term vision where economic security is decoupled from work. LINKS: Deric Cheng personal website AGI Social Contract project site Guiding society through the AI economic transition CHAPTERS: (00:00) Episode Preview (01:01) Introducing Derek and AGI (04:09) Automation, power, and inequality (08:55) Inequality, unrest, and time (13:46) Bridging futurists and economists (20:35) Future of work scenarios (27:22) Jobs resisting AI automation (36:57) Luxury, land, and inequality (43:32) Designing and testing solutions (51:23) Taxation in an AI economy (59:10) Envisioning a post-AGI society PRODUCED BY: https://aipodcast.ing SOCIAL LINKS: Website: https://podcast.futureoflife.org Twitter (FLI): https://x.com/FLI_org Twitter (Gus): https://x.com/gusdocker LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/future-of-life-institute/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rCCy3FQ-GItDimSR9lhzw/ Apple: https://geo.itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/id1170991978 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2Op1WO3gwVwCrYHg4eoGyP