Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership | Fundraising | Board Development | Communications
Published by Joan Garry & Glennda Testone
Business
Management
Non-Profit
Nonprofits Are Messy is the podcast for nonprofit leaders navigating the real challenges of leadership, fundraising, governance, communications, and organizational growth. Hosted by Joan Garry and Glennda Testone, each episode features candid conversations, practical advice, and honest stories to help you lead with greater confidence through the messiness of nonprofit work.
For many nonprofit leaders, unionization can feel deeply personal. Explore the questions, challenges, and realities of nonprofit unionization, and how leaders, staff, and boards can navigate the process while preserving trust, culture, and their org’s values.
What if the goal isn’t simply to avoid burnout, but to learn how to burn on? Jim Collins joins Joan Garry to explore why some leaders stay energized for decades, what it means to stay “in frame,” and how to build a life around what matters most.
Most nonprofits know how to get people to pay attention. Fewer know how to turn that attention into lasting change. In this conversation, Rashad Robinson shares what makes the difference.
Managing a team that spans five generations isn't a Gen Z problem. It's a leadership challenge. In this episode, I sit down with Jason Burlingame to talk about the workplace tensions that seem to resurface with every generation and what it takes to lead through them.
I sat down with Dr. Kiki Ramsey, positive psychologist and CEO of the Positive Psychology Coaching and Diversity Institute, to have an honest conversation about DEI that nonprofit leaders need to hear right now. We’re covering what’s changing and how nonprofits can keep building belonging even in a hostile climate.
For a long time, Glennda Testone’s people-pleasing nature shaped – and sometimes complicated – her leadership. In this honest, personal solo episode, she shares her journey from people pleaser to recovering people pleaser. Plus, five practical strategies for leading well when you’re wired to make everyone happy.
Think of finding the right CRM like matchmaking – it takes time, self-awareness, and knowing what you actually need versus what just looks good on paper. Glennda Testone sits down with Julia Gachenbach of DonorPerfect to walk through the do’s and don’ts of the matchmaking process to help your organization find the right fit.
What if the rules we’ve built our sector around are actually holding us back? I sat down with author, blogger, and nonprofit rabble-rouser Vu Le to dig into the uncomfortable truths behind his new book, Reimagining Nonprofits and Philanthropy, and why the sector’s greatest threat may be its own suppressed imagination.
When crisis hit Minneapolis, nonprofit leaders and neighbors didn’t wait for rescue. In this episode, Emilia Gonzalez Avalos of Unidos Minnesota shares what it took to build a rapid-response infrastructure, protect communities, and turn terror into collective action.
In a nonprofit, revenue often feels uncertain. But here’s the secret: financial resilience isn’t luck – it’s strategy. In this episode, Glennda Testone and Bethany Maki of Progressive Multipliers explore how nonprofits can build independent revenue, diversify funding, and strengthen long-term sustainability.
Strategic planning doesn’t have to be expensive, exhausting, or end up on a shelf. In this episode, Glennda Testone talks with Sophia Shaw and Adam Wolford of PlanPerfect about a smarter, more accessible approach to nonprofit strategic planning – especially for small to mid-sized organizations.
In this episode, I’m joined by my wife Eileen Opatut, a volunteer fundraiser who landed a yes on her first major ask! Together, we break down what actually works and walk through the real mechanics of successful fundraising.
Nonprofit leaders aren’t burning out because they’re incapable. They’re burning out because we’re not setting them up for success. In this episode, I make the case for why leadership development is not optional – and why investing in leaders is one of the most powerful retention strategies our sector has.
In this episode, Glennda and I reflect on what last year revealed about leadership–and what must change going forward. From adaptive leadership to intentional planning to shared power and long-term thinking, this conversation explores how nonprofit leaders can move beyond reaction and lead with clarity, resilience, and purpose in the year ahead.
When the relationship between a board chair and CEO is strong, it can transform an entire organization, but most nonprofit leaders aren’t taught how to build it well. Girl Scouts of the USA’s CEO Bonnie Barczykowski and Board President Noorain Khan join Glennda to share exactly how they created a high-trust, high-impact partnership from day one.
2025 felt like a year when everything became more and harder. More crises. More fear. More civic strain. More communities under pressure. And yet – more leadership, too. In this episode, Glennda connects with Darlene Nipper, President of the Rockwood Leadership Institute, for a grounded look at what leadership truly looked like in 2025. Darlene shares what she and her team witnessed across the country: communities organizing, mutual-aid volunteers pivoting to meet urgent needs, families creating rapid-response communication networks, and leaders of small organizations adapting and strategizing for the future. This wasn’t leadership from the podium. It was leadership from the sidewalk, school hallway, boardroom, and living room. Together, Glennda and Darlene talk about what broke, what held, and what grew stronger this year: How democracy became a shared responsibility, not just a political concept What “leading from the inside out” looks like in high-pressure environments Why the long view and the short view have to coexist What nonprofit leaders need to prioritize amid uncertainty And through it all, one truth kept surfacing: leadership is no longer reserved for the chosen few. It is happening everywhere, often in people who never expected to step into the role. Whether you lead a nonprofit, neighborhood group, faith community, or simply your own family, this episode offers clarity on what your leadership means right now, and what it needs next. TUNE IN TO LEARN: How 2025 redefined who counts as a leader: This year showed us that leadership doesn’t just come from titles or org charts – neighbors, parents, volunteers, and everyday people stepped in where systems fell short. Why democracy became a litmus test for leadership this year: In 2025, leaders weren’t just asked to run programs. They were asked to choose whether to protect democratic values or remain silent as they eroded. How easy on-ramps – rather than professional gatekeeping – brought more people into meaningful action: Grassroots movements gained momentum because people could simply show up, proving accessibility is what fuels community power. What nonprofit leaders need to prioritize amid uncertainty: From pivoting quickly to listening deeply, this episode breaks down the practices that helped organizations stay grounded and effective. How leaders are thinking ahead while addressing immediate crises: Even while navigating fires, funding losses, and political turmoil, visionary leaders shifted into long-view strategy – imagining a future they may never personally see. KEY QUOTES: “I think this notion of leadership is this far-off behavior or category of people that's not us, totally is a thing, you know, and it's like – no, actually it is all of us.” - Darlene Nipper “I do think this moment is calling a lot of people into leadership in ways that are really motivating.” - Glennda Testone “So money should not be a problem. You know? That should not even be an issue. If we believe in the work, we need to give it away is such a level that people are just not even leaders are not even thinking about where the money is going to come from.” - Darlene Nipper “Listen to your constituents, your community, your people, and come out with what you know, because your role, your place, your space is very unique to you and the work that you're doing.” - Darlene Nipper ABOUT GUEST: With over 25 years of leadership and advocacy experience, Darlene Nipper joined Rockwood as a trainer in 2012 and now serves as CEO. Darlene’s knowledge of the challenges facing leaders and the practices required for effective leadership is informed by her own background at a range of organizations. She has held key leadership roles in nonprofit and social justice organizations, as well as city government and foundations. Darlene previously served as the executive director of the BET Foundation, and as the chief operating officer at National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI), during which time she founded NAMI’s Multicultural and International Policy Center. She is the former director of LGBT Affairs in the Executive Office of the Mayor of D.C., and the 2024-25 Visiting Senior Fellow for Movement Infrastructure and Explorations at the Freedom Together Foundation. A native Washingtonian, Darlene is an ordained interfaith minister, and practices mindfulness meditation, deep presence, and living joy. RESOURCES: Darlene Nipper LinkedIn Rockwood Leadership Institute Glennda Testone LinkedIn Nonprofit Leadership Lab DRG Talent Consulting Experts Joan Garry’s Guide to Nonprofit Leadership – 2nd Edition by Joan Garry FREE WORKSHOP: Let’s Build the Nonprofit Board of Your Dreams! FREE WORKSHOP: The 5 Practices of Outstanding Nonprofit Leaders Music by Jukebox the Ghost Disclosure of Material Connection: Some of the links in the post above are “affiliate links.” This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission. Regardless, I only recommend products or services I use personally and believe will add value to my readers. I am disclosing this in accordance with the Federal Trade Commission’s 16 CFR, Part 255: “Guides Concerning the Use of Endorsements and Testimonials in Advertising.” Sponsored By DonorPerfect DonorPerfect provides nonprofits with powerful fundraising tools to drive success. Built on a foundation of integrity and innovation, the company prioritizes its clients over investors, cultivating a culture of collaboration, continuous improvement, and a commitment to making a difference. Check out their resource(s) below. 2026 Fundraising Calendar Design Tips for Nonprofits A Fundraiser’s Guide to Donor-Advised Funds Sponsored By DRG Talent Consulting Experts DRG is a talent advisory group helping nonprofit organizations to identify, attract, and nurture innovative, diverse leadership. Our team of 40+ experts serves over 200 nonprofits a year of all sizes and in various sectors across the country. Learn more at drgtalent.com. Check out their resource(s) below. Interviewing with Reduced
Your budget isn’t just rows on a spreadsheet–it tells a story. I’ll explain how a goals-first budgeting process reduces friction, fuels creativity, and helps everyone in your organization pull in the same direction.
We say we “know” our neighbors, but do we really talk to them? Army vet and civic entrepreneur Garrett Cathcart joins Joan to share a hopeful, doable model for bringing people together across differences. If you’ve been craving belonging (and a practical path forward), this episode will give you tools and hope.
